Re: Episode 3 - 6/6 - Discussion - Spoilers

by jojo47 Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:52 am

Bloomers wrote:
Alanna wrote:
Bloomers wrote:

Quite simply, The Bachelor/Bachelorette is first and foremost ( and I mean foremost) a business venture, and just like any other business they have to look at the bottom line. It is unfortunate, but if they gave us a sweet, love story like Ryan and Trista every time in 2011's TV market, they would tank because it would be instantly and loudly booed as too boring.
They are interested first and foremost in ratings and advertising dollars which equals business.
They care first and foremost for the business end of the venture. Next they care for the relationship.

Now, if you will look back. We often have a single parent with a date in the 3rd episode.

We don't see Bentley getting a date in the 3rd episode in spite of the fact that Bentley is a single parent. You can bet that Ashley made it known to them that she was attracted to Bentley and would like to have a date with him.

Therefore, I do think that although they were going to milk the drama for the ratings, they were protecting Ashley. They knew what Bentley was ALL ABOUT, and they did not give him one of those 3rd episode dates, and the chance to advance into the F4 and just tear her up and blow her whole season to bits.

I personally think that psychologically Bentley was DeAnna's Graham and Jillian's Wes - that guy that they had fanatized about but never dreamed they would ever have a shot with: Graham was so smoking hot with those abs, and DeAnna fell instantly into lust - DeAnna and the board of women with her. Jillian made no secret about she would love a country singer, and there was Wes who only wanted to record his album on his due date.

I think Bentley fulfills some kind of fantasy - maybe forbidden fruit or badboy - for Ashley. I think she fell head over heels in a fantasy crush for Bentley.
I don't know if any of you remember being a teen-ager and having a bad unrequited crush on someone , but those crushes at the time can feel very real.

How about Ali's Frank? The sensitive and tortured artiste with his thumb ring and carefree ways of the 6 week long trip to Paireee before retiring to the family basement?

Honestly, I don't think any of those girls "fell in love" with their respective albatross, but like you said, those men represented something for them that they wanted. Ali wanting some brilliant artist or whatever, Jill wanting a country singer, Deanna wanting the hottest guy in school, and now Ashley wanting-and I hate to say it- to play with fire and change the badboy who's hot and cold with her. At the end of the day, most of them got over it. Ali fell in love with a steady, stable man, Deanna is with a dorky teacher, and even Jill fell for a much less dangerous type of player- he's not all bad, just cannot commit like she wants. I have full faith that once the haze cleared and she calmed down, Ash also went for a loving man who made her feel secure and happy instead of keeping her on edge. Like I already said, judging by her confident demeanor in interviews, I think she found what she should have been looking for in the very beginning.PS: And I thought I'd have nothing to post about on the train this morning. Thanks Bloomers!

Note, though, that they didn't leave that up to chance. Whereas Graham, Frank, and Wes got the first dates which indicated the interest, Bentley never got a date - and I am convinced she requested that Bentley have a date.
Also look at the pattern of single parents having Ep. 3 dates: Jason, Stephanie, Ella, Emily. I think they knew Bentley was hazardous, and they also knew that she -like DeAnna - might not let him go on her own if he got that date and really insinuated himself into the process. Therefore, I believe they told him that he was NOT getting a date, and he told them he wanted to leave. At that point, they decided how the storyline would work to their best advantage. That is my best edit take.

Furthermore, my opinion, but to me it is not whether the Bachelorettes actually "fell" for those characters as much as they felt like they did. The feeling was extremely real and powerful at the time, and it was that with which they had to deal.
If Graham had chosen to stay, would Graham have been F1? That was out of her hands.
What about Wes? He says he told her he wouldn't marry her, and he made it clear to the producers, her, and everybody else that he had this due date to produce his album. That was his priority in life. He was going to make that due date to record his album come H*ll or high water, and that meant he would have to leave the show before it finished filming.
We knew they had wanted a country western music singer for a bachelor, so I think they were willing to take Wes anyway they could get him; however, when Jill took such a shine to him, and Wes refused to capitulate, I personally feel like they made him pay for it with that edit.
In retrospect, we now know that it was not Wes that had the girlfriend - it was Ed. Wes, to his credit, never made any bones that he had a record to record. He was what he was!
Our evidence showed Frank told them as early as the 2nd episode that he was in over his head and wanted out. In my opinion, the fact that they would not let him go means that Ali really, really did want him, and they were hoping like crazy maybe they'd win him over. I think they at least wanted a decent F2 out of him.
Ali isn't stupid, and I think she probably would have "outgrown" Frank by the FRC, but she definitely wanted him at the beginning.

Now, something I would like to point out....It is true that we can't take everything Chris Harrison says as the truth. He is a company man. He gets his check from them, and that feeds his family.
However, there are times when he is dead on the money, and people do NOT want to believe him because they don't want to believe him.
There is a definte case in point from last season that I am going to bring to remembrance which I kept bringing up, and I couldn't get anybody to pay attention!
In a main interview, Chris Harrison asked the clear questioning remark: Does Brad want to be that guy that drags Emily all the way to F2 (FRC) only to put her through that again? ( all the emotional upheaval of losing in love again) The insinuation was that Brad didn't want to be seen again as a jerk, and Emily wasn't F2.

Chantal had been declared the spoiled F1. Even though she looked like an F2 to me, Chantal and Brad had tremendous physical chemistry, and the board was wildly in love with Chantal. In addition, Brad wasn't touching and acting around Emily like he SHOULD around an F1. It was an all around wacky F1/F2 edit for the whole season.

I could not get anybody to listen to me, but Chris Harrison was giving us a dead on- head's-up clue.

I am inclined to believe what he is saying so earnestly about Ashley and Bentley. This edit so far is pretty wacky, too. The only thing I can see, so far, is that Ashley has fallen for Bentley and is crushed - accrording to CH - can she really overcome it (really, truly) and fall for F1, whoever that is?

This may well be our F1 storyline for the season. I sure don't see anything. :greenman:

I myself am going to watch those Chris Harrison interviews for clues. I am also going to read both his and Ashley's blogs, keeping in mind that Brad gave away that F1 changed from Chantal to Emily in Anquilla in his blog that week when he said, "Love is in the air." The only contestant - the only one at all in that episode- that love remotely resembled was Emily.

I agree with alot of what you're saying here, Bloomers. But one fact we can't forget is that TPTB had a guy in Bentley who DID NOT WANT to end up with the lead (Ashley) in the end. He may have wanted to stay longer in the process to fulfill whatever purpose he had for doing the show, but he didn't want to be F1, according to what he's telling us in his PI's.

This gives TPTB some material to work with in that they can "protect" Ashley to a certain degree, but they can "play" with her feelings for Bentley also to create storyline. Bentley served a purpose for them, as he certainly isn't "in it to win it".

by nd4reality Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:18 am

Bloomers wrote:

Now, something I would like to point out....It is true that we can't take everything Chris Harrison says as the truth. He is a company man. He gets his check from them, and that feeds his family.
However, there are times when he is dead on the money, and people do NOT want to believe him because they don't want to believe him.
There is a definte case in point from last season that I am going to bring to remembrance which I kept bringing up, and I couldn't get anybody to pay attention!
In a main interview, Chris Harrison asked the clear questioning remark: Does Brad want to be that guy that drags Emily all the way to F2 (FRC) only to put her through that again? ( all the emotional upheaval of losing in love again) The insinuation was that Brad didn't want to be seen again as a jerk, and Emily wasn't F2.

Chantal had been declared the spoiled F1. Even though she looked like an F2 to me, Chantal and Brad had tremendous physical chemistry, and the board was wildly in love with Chantal. In addition, Brad wasn't touching and acting around Emily like he SHOULD around an F1. It was an all around wacky F1/F2 edit for the whole season.

I could not get anybody to listen to me, but Chris Harrison was giving us a dead on- head's-up clue.

I am inclined to believe what he is saying so earnestly about Ashley and Bentley. This edit so far is pretty wacky, too. The only thing I can see, so far, is that Ashley has fallen for Bentley and is crushed - accrording to CH - can she really overcome it (really, truly) and fall for F1, whoever that is?

This may well be our F1 storyline for the season. I sure don't see anything. :greenman:

(love your posts btw though there are sooo many great points it is hard to comment laugh out loud

.

Here is my 1st : Agree, both through CHs blogs and the leads blogs (and interviews) there is an underlying thread of what the season holds. I too found last seasons overall edit weird taking the RS spoilers into consideration and therefore questioned what I read via the blogs etc. and also Brads actions on the show. This time their theme has been "no regrets" so perhaps we should look to those clues. Is (the bolded 2) really what you get so far?

I myself am going to watch those Chris Harrison interviews for clues. I am also going to read both his and Ashley's blogs, keeping in mind that Brad gave away that F1 changed from Chantal to Emily in Anquilla in his blog that week when he said, "Love is in the air." The only contestant - the only one at all in that episode- that love remotely resembled was Emily.

Great idea to review not only CH but Ashley herself. There is something to be said about being "coached" and what BL vibes are being given off by the lead. Oftentimes the 2 don't match at all.

Did I read somewhere that the deliberation will be shown tonight ? They will edit it carefully but I think we should come some more clues there too ... at least to see where this thing is heading and where Ashleys head is as of episode 3.

by anders Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:34 am

Bloomers wrote: Note, though, that they didn't leave that up to chance. Whereas Graham, Frank, and Wes got the first dates which indicated the interest, Bentley never got a date - and I am convinced she requested that Bentley have a date.
Also look at the pattern of single parents having Ep. 3 dates: Jason, Stephanie, Ella, Emily. I think they knew Bentley was hazardous, and they also knew that she -like DeAnna - might not let him go on her own if he got that date and really insinuated himself into the process. Therefore, I believe they told him that he was NOT getting a date, and he told them he wanted to leave. At that point, they decided how the storyline would work to their best advantage. That is my best edit take.

I find that sticks out like sore thumb, Ashley fully intended for him to be in the F4 - he would've gotten a 1:1 date. JP in epside 3, Ames epi 4, Ben epi 5 - Bentley should have at least gotten a 1:1 in epi 1.

by nd4reality Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:59 am

This maybe in the wrong thread but I just went back are re-watched some mid-season CH interviews and (in highsight) he drops clues all over the place.
So keep an eye on what CH says during the season is something we should do.

by Bloomers Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:39 pm

anders wrote:
Bloomers wrote: Note, though, that they didn't leave that up to chance. Whereas Graham, Frank, and Wes got the first dates which indicated the interest, Bentley never got a date - and I am convinced she requested that Bentley have a date.
Also look at the pattern of single parents having Ep. 3 dates: Jason, Stephanie, Ella, Emily. I think they knew Bentley was hazardous, and they also knew that she -like DeAnna - might not let him go on her own if he got that date and really insinuated himself into the process. Therefore, I believe they told him that he was NOT getting a date, and he told them he wanted to leave. At that point, they decided how the storyline would work to their best advantage. That is my best edit take.

I find that sticks out like sore thumb, Ashley fully intended for him to be in the F4 - he would've gotten a 1:1 date. JP in epside 3, Ames epi 4, Ben epi 5 - Bentley should have at least gotten a 1:1 in epi 1.

If she wanted him to be in the F4, she still was dependent upon the producers to give him a date. She couldn't do it just because she wanted him to have one.
She could have told them she wanted him to have one, and they could have hedged around indicating he would get one later on; meanwhile, they knew he was going to leave on his own, especially if they told him he was not going to get a single date and would not end up in the F4.

Would Bentley have left on his own if he had gotten one of those first dates, say a 3rd episode single parent date? You know, with his behavior and the type personal character he has exhibited, I wouldn't bet on a blast of conscience suddenly rearing its head. I think that is what we believe Bentley should and would have done.....
but then I think Bentley should never have said the things he was thinking in front of the Lord and 8 million people.

One of my mottos: Everything that goes on in your head does not need to come out of your mouth.

by anders Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:49 pm

yeah - I reworded my post several times (first thing Mon morning.....) and that's what I meant to say - had production intended that he would be a part of the F4, he would've been assigned a date. And as you mentioned Ashley wouldn't have known if he was supposed to have a date in epi 4 or 5, or maybe they told her it would come later?? We know they have little say on who goes on what date - no matter what they say.

by nd4reality Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:54 pm

I think its strange that the apprent "front-runner" did not have the coveted episode 3 date and can't believe that tbtb were trying to "proctect" ashley.
Somehow I seriously doubt that he was the front runner anyway, regardless of what CH says.

I can't wait to watch this episode and see how much splicing and dicing they needed to make us all belive that Ashley was completely into this guy and nearly called everything off.

by LuvnIt Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:16 pm

nd4reality wrote:I think its strange that the apprent "front-runner" did not have the coveted episode 3 date and can't believe that tbtb were trying to "proctect" ashley.
Somehow I seriously doubt that he was the front runner anyway, regardless of what CH says.

I can't wait to watch this episode and see how much splicing and dicing they needed to make us all belive that Ashley was completely into this guy and nearly called everything off.

I am inclined to agree with your post. Just like they all wanted us to believe Ali was madly in love with Frank and it was Roberto from the get go.

by Bloomers Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:37 pm

LuvnIt wrote:
nd4reality wrote:I think its strange that the apprent "front-runner" did not have the coveted episode 3 date and can't believe that tbtb were trying to "proctect" ashley.
Somehow I seriously doubt that he was the front runner anyway, regardless of what CH says.

I can't wait to watch this episode and see how much splicing and dicing they needed to make us all belive that Ashley was completely into this guy and nearly called everything off.

I am inclined to agree with your post. Just like they all wanted us to believe Ali was madly in love with Frank and it was Roberto from the get go.

Can you think of any other season ever where we have not seen any interaction between the lead and F2, the F3, and the F4, and hardily any between the lead and the spoiled F1 by the time we are going into the 3rd episode?

If all of the drama with Bentley is pretty much hype and smoke, how do we explain that we have failed to establish any connections with our F2, F3, and F4 and fairly little with our spoiled F1, we have no substance so far, and we are going into the 3rd episode?
Was it there, and they just didn't show it to us, and chose to let us think she was this into Bentley?
If so, they are doing so at the risk of credibility. We don't know the F2, F3, and F4 at all, and we hardily know JP. They are risking us believing in their connections just to make us think she felt more for Bentley than she really did?

by nd4reality Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:42 pm

^^^ not really. If we didn't have the spoilers, the 2 guy I would know about are Ryan P and JP. And Bentley, William (date) Mickey (date) and thanks to their 1 on1 time shown .. Blake and West. The 1st episode just a bit of BenF.
Nothing much about Constantine and Ames.
Did she really have 0 one on one time with all these guys in episode 2 ?
Or did it all reach the cutting floor.

At worst I would assume a "bum" season.
At best I can assume that they are going back to pre-Brad 1 and showing connections only later in the season. Not sure what to think.

by Alanna Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:05 pm

Bloomers wrote:
LuvnIt wrote:
nd4reality wrote:I think its strange that the apprent "front-runner" did not have the coveted episode 3 date and can't believe that tbtb were trying to "proctect" ashley.
Somehow I seriously doubt that he was the front runner anyway, regardless of what CH says.

I can't wait to watch this episode and see how much splicing and dicing they needed to make us all belive that Ashley was completely into this guy and nearly called everything off.

I am inclined to agree with your post. Just like they all wanted us to believe Ali was madly in love with Frank and it was Roberto from the get go.

Can you think of any other season ever where we have not seen any interaction between the lead and F2, the F3, and the F4, and hardily any between the lead and the spoiled F1 by the time we are going into the 3rd episode?

If all of the drama with Bentley is pretty much hype and smoke, how do we explain that we have failed to establish any connections with our F2, F3, and F4 and fairly little with our spoiled F1, we have no substance so far, and we are going into the 3rd episode?
Was it there, and they just didn't show it to us, and chose to let us think she was this into Bentley?
If so, they are doing so at the risk of credibility. We don't know the F2, F3, and F4 at all, and we hardily know JP. They are risking us believing in their connections just to make us think she felt more for Bentley than she really did?

What interactions did we see with Rob prior to his 1:1? Salsa and baseball.
What interactions did we see with Emily prior to her 1:1? Ricky and Ricki and some more of the aforementioned. Chantal wasn't even in the first two episode last season and she was the F2.

If we don't see a strong connection with JP tonight, then yeah, danger, Will Robinson! Otherwise, I don't see anything out of the ordinary with this Bentley stuff. IDK if it's wishful thinking or what, but I seriously do not think she fell in love with Bentley in two weeks. Yes, she was hurt and humiliated and confused, but I don't think she was seriously planning to move to Utah and become Mrs. Bentley at this point.

ETA: In fact, I expect her deliberation with Chris to be like Ali's FD deliberation. Hurt, upset but doesn't let a dbag ruin her chance for love.

by Love_Me Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:10 pm

Ali was a much better actress then I gave her credit for. Episode 3 - 6/6 - Discussion - Spoilers - Page 4 616920822

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