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ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by northernviewer on Sat Dec 01, 2012 5:48 am

@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.


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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by Aunties_Love on Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:59 am

ATR2012 at Dailymotion now has up the ATFR

www.dailymotion.com/ATR2012


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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by Barbarossa on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:34 pm

@Aunties_Love wrote:ATR2012 at Dailymotion now has up the ATFR

www.dailymotion.com/ATR2012

Thank you! I had been unable to see the ATFR.


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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by HowSoonIsNow on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:33 pm

@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by Aunties_Love on Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:56 pm

@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.


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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by iamreal2u on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:27 pm

@Aunties_Love wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.

Also my opinion only. I think Whitney is very a pretty woman and even beautiful as seen at the AFTR. I think the reason why Whitney appears not to express herself very well is because she curses every other word. You cannot do that on TV, so she has to process and think of a clean reply. I noticed during the commercial break Whitney got out at least 5 sentences in a space of a minute and they were all filled with the F-word.

After Paris, both Whit and Brad recognized that things were changing. Neither wanted to admit because they had 4 weeks of hot physical attraction. Also Pen was the first 1-n-1 with Whit after having at least 2 dates with Bianka(Mexico and Paris). I am sure in Brad's mind he is comparing these dates and acting differently. In all the jumbo mumbo that I just wrote, I think both were to blame and not Whit alone. Yes she acted like it was a competition and said some really stupid things, but in the end, starting with Pen, they both realized or start to realize they had only a physical relationship.
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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by Aunties_Love on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:10 am

@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.

Also my opinion only. I think Whitney is very a pretty woman and even beautiful as seen at the AFTR. I think the reason why Whitney appears not to express herself very well is because she curses every other word. You cannot do that on TV, so she has to process and think of a clean reply. I noticed during the commercial break Whitney got out at least 5 sentences in a space of a minute and they were all filled with the F-word.

After Paris, both Whit and Brad recognized that things were changing. Neither wanted to admit because they had 4 weeks of hot physical attraction. Also Pen was the first 1-n-1 with Whit after having at least 2 dates with Bianka(Mexico and Paris). I am sure in Brad's mind he is comparing these dates and acting differently. In all the jumbo mumbo that I just wrote, I think both were to blame and not Whit alone. Yes she acted like it was a competition and said some really stupid things, but in the end, starting with Pen, they both realized or start to realize they had only a physical relationship.
One thing about what you said though. I don't think Brad realized that in Penticton his feelings of Whit were just physical. He was EXTREMELY dumbfounded to hear at the ATFR that it was Penticton and onwards that Whit was playing games with him. That can't be mistaken from his reactions for sure. How is it that Brad is to blame though, that is something I just don't get. Is it because he kept giving roses? If so, I think his explanation of that was perfectly understandable at the ATFR, considering it was her that was playing mind games with him, telling him that SHE wanted him, that SHE saw a future for them. When you like someone and you are told those kinds of things, what are you to think? If you can enlighten me on this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.


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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by iamreal2u on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:59 am

@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.

Also my opinion only. I think Whitney is very a pretty woman and even beautiful as seen at the AFTR. I think the reason why Whitney appears not to express herself very well is because she curses every other word. You cannot do that on TV, so she has to process and think of a clean reply. I noticed during the commercial break Whitney got out at least 5 sentences in a space of a minute and they were all filled with the F-word.

After Paris, both Whit and Brad recognized that things were changing. Neither wanted to admit because they had 4 weeks of hot physical attraction. Also Pen was the first 1-n-1 with Whit after having at least 2 dates with Bianka(Mexico and Paris). I am sure in Brad's mind he is comparing these dates and acting differently. In all the jumbo mumbo that I just wrote, I think both were to blame and not Whit alone. Yes she acted like it was a competition and said some really stupid things, but in the end, starting with Pen, they both realized or start to realize they had only a physical relationship.
One thing about what you said though. I don't think Brad realized that in Penticton his feelings of Whit were just physical. He was EXTREMELY dumbfounded to hear at the ATFR that it was Penticton and onwards that Whit was playing games with him. That can't be mistaken from his reactions for sure. How is it that Brad is to blame though, that is something I just don't get. Is it because he kept giving roses? If so, I think his explanation of that was perfectly understandable at the ATFR, considering it was her that was playing mind games with him, telling him that SHE wanted him, that SHE saw a future for them. When you like someone and you are told those kinds of things, what are you to think? If you can enlighten me on this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Maybe blame is the wrong term to use in this instant since I am only observer. My point is, he came off an emotional high from Bianka( his words the best date he has had) and then back to his physical connection he had with Whit. Whit is noticing he has taken Bianka to two fab dates(did any of the girls believe that he would have send Bianka home in Paris?) Brad thought he was handling his emotions and departmentalized his feelings for both girls but feelings cannot be turned off and on like a faucet. He may not have known it, but Whit picked up on changing intensity. Whit might have continued with wanting it to be her feeding him crap, but also Brad knew that his feelings were changing and he did kinda feed her crap as well. Unfortunately the show had to go on. In the end I really love the emotional connection that Brad and Bianka have and I hope all really works out for them.
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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by ja1968 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:12 am

@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.

Also my opinion only. I think Whitney is very a pretty woman and even beautiful as seen at the AFTR. I think the reason why Whitney appears not to express herself very well is because she curses every other word. You cannot do that on TV, so she has to process and think of a clean reply. I noticed during the commercial break Whitney got out at least 5 sentences in a space of a minute and they were all filled with the F-word.

After Paris, both Whit and Brad recognized that things were changing. Neither wanted to admit because they had 4 weeks of hot physical attraction. Also Pen was the first 1-n-1 with Whit after having at least 2 dates with Bianka(Mexico and Paris). I am sure in Brad's mind he is comparing these dates and acting differently. In all the jumbo mumbo that I just wrote, I think both were to blame and not Whit alone. Yes she acted like it was a competition and said some really stupid things, but in the end, starting with Pen, they both realized or start to realize they had only a physical relationship.
One thing about what you said though. I don't think Brad realized that in Penticton his feelings of Whit were just physical. He was EXTREMELY dumbfounded to hear at the ATFR that it was Penticton and onwards that Whit was playing games with him. That can't be mistaken from his reactions for sure. How is it that Brad is to blame though, that is something I just don't get. Is it because he kept giving roses? If so, I think his explanation of that was perfectly understandable at the ATFR, considering it was her that was playing mind games with him, telling him that SHE wanted him, that SHE saw a future for them. When you like someone and you are told those kinds of things, what are you to think? If you can enlighten me on this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Maybe blame is the wrong term to use in this instant since I am only observer. My point is, he came off an emotional high from Bianka( his words the best date he has had) and then back to his physical connection he had with Whit. Whit is noticing he has taken Bianka to two fab dates(did any of the girls believe that he would have send Bianka home in Paris?) Brad thought he was handling his emotions and departmentalized his feelings for both girls but feelings cannot be turned off and on like a faucet. He may not have known it, but Whit picked up on changing intensity. Whit might have continued with wanting it to be her feeding him crap, but also Brad knew that his feelings were changing and he did kinda feed her crap as well. Unfortunately the show had to go on. In the end I really love the emotional connection that Brad and Bianka have and I hope all really works out for them.

I wonder if it was a surprise to Whitney that things developed so strongly for Bianka? She said when Kara had her 1-1 that she considered her to be her main competition. Maybe they all thought Kara was the one to beat until Paris.

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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by iamreal2u on Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:14 am

@ja1968 wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@northernviewer wrote:
@HowSoonIsNow wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@iamreal2u wrote:
@Aunties_Love wrote:
@ja1968 wrote:Isn't that the same episode where she ran out to see him and he told her about his two best friends?
Yes, that is all in the same episode, her and him at the winery, rock climbing, and her running to him to tell him that she wants to be with him. So many things in that aren't adding up, but do feel Brad hit the nail on the head though with how she just isn't ready for marriage to anyone right now.

The rock climbing date was after the Paris date with Bianka. Maybe Brad does not even realize that he was treating Whit differently even then. Maybe he was not 100% in the moment like before, Whit sensed it, and started to rethink the relationship. Her statement on AFTR as to why didn't Brad send her home makes more sense if both knew that something was changing.
True, but Whit should of at least let him know that she was feeling differently other than having him dangle on the chain as she did. That is what he had the hardest time with on the ATFR; feeling like she was acting and stringing him along.

What is there to disclose to Brad? If Whitney is sensing Brad's change of modd toward her, then that's something Brad should have revealed to Whitney, not the other way around.

IMO Whitney's incoherence reflects her confusion regarding some mishmashing forces. She was a pawn of the production team (when she says "if other girls had the opp to run to brad's hotel, they would have", she probably means that production told her where brad was staying and encouraged her to go run to him), yet she's not supposed to reveal this. She, like blond chick, probably felt that it's brad show, so she should stay on the show as long as he keeps her on, rather than exiting just because she felt like it. She doesn't want to make Brad look bad, yet she doesn't want to throw herself under the bus either. And she thinks she's taking the fall, judging by her reaction to the internet hate.

I dunno, I am much smarter than Whitney, but even I would be an incoherent mess on live TV if I had so many conflicting forces at play to deal with.

The lead has to lead people on, even if he's already made up his mind in week 3 or 4... or even night 1. It's what this show is all about unfortunately. The lead does, however, ask each girl... "will you accept this rose"?.... and she can refuse it if she wants. Whitney didn't just sit back and wait for a rose either - she actively persued him, very aggressively. And now she's trying to say she stopped caring earlier than halfway?? she should have left well enough alone and just let it go, instead of trying to come up with a new story. I have to admit, I don't dislike her like I did Courtney, but the girl is calculating, that's for sure.

My opinion only, but anyone should be able to do as they please on the show. The contestants are given free travel, room, food, and free dates (for those that get a date), but they are not compensated via salary. They have less onus to stick to any understood protocol (i.e. don't accept a rose if you aren't sure about it) than the lead does, who is at least bound by a salary. I'm sure (at least on BachUSA) that at least half the girls who accept a rose actually aren't interested in the lead. If I were in Whitney's shoes - i.e. had an initial spark with the Bach but midway through was not so sure - I'd definitely stick around to see if that spark was out for sure or was just temporarily flickering. No reason to self-eliminate. I wouldn't want to wonder "what if" later on; I'd rather ride it out. Unless Whitney was completely certain that she didn't want Brad, I think she did the right thing to stick around.
Maybe so, but IMO, what she doesn't have the "right" to do is to blame Brad for keeping her as long as he did when SHE'S the one feeding him the lines and making him think that all is well and she really wants him and wants to be there. Not to mention that when she calls foul on how the viewers of the show are perceiving her. It has been said time and time again by the contestants on that season that what we saw of her on our screens is the true Whitney that they all saw in the house. So if that isn't the Whitney in her real life, why did she come onto a reality show pretending to be someone else and when she doesn't like the result, then cry foul that what we saw isn't her?? To me, everything that I saw of her during the filming and the ATFR, she does have some major personality issues as well as some growing up to do before she can really be ready for a committed relationship and possibly marriage.

Also my opinion only. I think Whitney is very a pretty woman and even beautiful as seen at the AFTR. I think the reason why Whitney appears not to express herself very well is because she curses every other word. You cannot do that on TV, so she has to process and think of a clean reply. I noticed during the commercial break Whitney got out at least 5 sentences in a space of a minute and they were all filled with the F-word.

After Paris, both Whit and Brad recognized that things were changing. Neither wanted to admit because they had 4 weeks of hot physical attraction. Also Pen was the first 1-n-1 with Whit after having at least 2 dates with Bianka(Mexico and Paris). I am sure in Brad's mind he is comparing these dates and acting differently. In all the jumbo mumbo that I just wrote, I think both were to blame and not Whit alone. Yes she acted like it was a competition and said some really stupid things, but in the end, starting with Pen, they both realized or start to realize they had only a physical relationship.
One thing about what you said though. I don't think Brad realized that in Penticton his feelings of Whit were just physical. He was EXTREMELY dumbfounded to hear at the ATFR that it was Penticton and onwards that Whit was playing games with him. That can't be mistaken from his reactions for sure. How is it that Brad is to blame though, that is something I just don't get. Is it because he kept giving roses? If so, I think his explanation of that was perfectly understandable at the ATFR, considering it was her that was playing mind games with him, telling him that SHE wanted him, that SHE saw a future for them. When you like someone and you are told those kinds of things, what are you to think? If you can enlighten me on this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Maybe blame is the wrong term to use in this instant since I am only observer. My point is, he came off an emotional high from Bianka( his words the best date he has had) and then back to his physical connection he had with Whit. Whit is noticing he has taken Bianka to two fab dates(did any of the girls believe that he would have send Bianka home in Paris?) Brad thought he was handling his emotions and departmentalized his feelings for both girls but feelings cannot be turned off and on like a faucet. He may not have known it, but Whit picked up on changing intensity. Whit might have continued with wanting it to be her feeding him crap, but also Brad knew that his feelings were changing and he did kinda feed her crap as well. Unfortunately the show had to go on. In the end I really love the emotional connection that Brad and Bianka have and I hope all really works out for them.

I wonder if it was a surprise to Whitney that things developed so strongly for Bianka? She said when Kara had her 1-1 that she considered her to be her main competition. Maybe they all thought Kara was the one to beat until Paris.


That's a good question. In an ITM Gabrielle said she wished that the 2-1 date to Paris would go to Whit and Bianka. Maybe the girls were aware, especially those on the trip to Mexico, that things were changing.
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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by ja1968 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:03 am

Does anyone know of any other site that I can watch this episode besides Dailymotion? Thanks
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Re: ATFR - November 28th - Discussion - Spoilers

Post by anders on Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:52 am

@northernviewer wrote:I think Whit was trying to save face by saying that she wasn't all that into him earlier, but it kinda backfired as it just made her look worse as if this were true... she was just pretending to like him to get the win. Personally, I think everything she did the whole season was about her playing and manipulating Brad so that she'd be F1, regardless of how she felt. There was nothing sincere about her from the moment she walked out of hte limo and gave Brad that ridiculous hug.

As to Whitney and her incoherent way of speaking, I think it's mostly because she's just a bad liar and she can't think fast enough to put it together. Listening to her talk is worse than listening to, another Canadian, William Shatner speak. At... least.... he.....can .....put....a ..... whole .... sentence.... together..............eventuallly. Hugesmile

I agree - she was trying to save face and in the end made herself look like a fool

agree again with the second bolded. The HTD was a good example of this - she wanted to know what kind of questions she would face with his family so she could formulate her answers in advance and that's why she fell silent. Brad tried to cover by saying she needs time to think before she answers - people only need to think when they're not telling the truth.


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