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Tweets/Facebook Sightings

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by Love_Me on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

Just curious, Love_Me, what convinces you that they had an earlier kiss, other than Ben making the offhand comment?


A couple of reasons why I initially thought that was TPTB never showed Ben and Ashley's 1-1 time on the group date in Vegas or on the comedy group date. Not that I thought they shared their first kiss then, but it seemed odd to me Ben was the F2 and yet remained so hidden.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by GrahamGal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

I think TPTB would want to show the F2 first kiss. To build up the "rivalry" between F1 and F2. So I think we saw the first Bash kiss.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by noobsleuth on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:19 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

Ashley didn't help too much. I said in another thread she handled the whole thing just terribly. Forget the proposal, she could have started pulling away from him physically a long time before the LCD. I keep going to back to how blatantly obvious it was on Brad and Chantal's LCD that she was not gong to be picked. She could have still carried out the show and not led him on as much as she did.

However, IC made a good point that all of this happened before she got the answers she needed from JP and therefore was giving it a last ditch effort. I think the things she asked JP on their LCD were things she had been wondering about since she found out his age. Her sister brought those to the forefront and made her confront those fears. But I think it was those same fears that kept other guys (like Ben) in the game.

To be honest... (hopefully no one is offended by this) I am surprised that Ben thought he was in love with Ashley. He always seemed uncertain of their connection even towards the end. "Why, because you like me now?", "Are you okay with this", Ashley having to tell him to come in for more kisses.

For pete's sake I wanna see Ben kiss someone like JP kissed Ashley on the beach in Phuket!!!!! hissyfit C'mon Benny Boy we know you have it in ya!

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by sydney1 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:17 pm

Love_me, I guess we will never know why he was so Shocked he was not the one


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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by bluwavz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:17 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

I do, because Ben told Ashley's family that they noticed each other on the orphanage group date and that it started there for him and Ashley agreed with him, so I don't think really much happened between them before that.

I also believe Ben fell in love with Ashley and that he really thought she felt the same way and would accept his proposal. There was just too much bitterness from him for me to believe otherwise.


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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by ironcat on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

Just curious, Love_Me, what convinces you that they had an earlier kiss, other than Ben making the offhand comment?

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by Love_Me on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:07 pm

So you all think Ben's first kiss with Ashley was after there orphanage group date. The one he said he noticed Ashley was buzzing around him. ha!

Believe me I have thought about a lot of things Ben might have missed or been lead to believe. This is eye opening. I do think he fell for Ashley and after he was rejected he was genuinely shocked he wasn't the one.

It makes you wonder though about a lot of things.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by bluwavz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:02 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

I agree, I believe Ashley did have feelings for Ben and they were stronger than what she had for all the other guys except JP. I believe she felt stronger for Ben than she did for Bentley. Bentley was just a smokescreen, pure and simple. There is no way Ashley would be making out on the sofa with JP as we saw in that clip (shown in the montage at the FRC) the same day Bentley left if she was so in love with Bentley. That is why they did not show us that clip, the audience would not have believed that Ashley was pinning away for Bentley for the next three epsiodes.. But, back to Ben, maybe he was like Ames, just concentrating on his relationship with Ashley, Ames did not see a connection with anyone else, at least that is what he said in his interview. I don't believe that, based on what he said at the group date he had with JP and Lucas, he saw the connection, maybe he just convinced himself it was not real. : [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Absolutely Ashley had feelings for Ben that were stronger than those she had for all the other guys besides JP, but the gap was pretty wide between her feelings for JP and the next closest guy (Ben). Since the HK date, which Jash now have stated was the turning point in their relationship, happened before she really got to spend all that much time with Ben (she really only started noticing him in Phuket, and had just the one solo date and another group date before "the date" with JP), I think by the time of Ben's "overnight" date, everybody else was really just competing for second place, which Ben certainly won. But as JP has said repeatedly, his relationship with Ashley was just at a whole 'nother level. Ben was clearly her favorite from the second tier, and that's why he was F2.

I always felt it was too late for everyone else to have a good shot at being the F1 once JP had his first 1-on-1 date with Ashley. Maybe if Ben had come on stronger before that point, he would've had a better chance. We didn't get to see any of Ben and Ashley's conversations in the second or third episodes, so we have really no way of knowing what happened between them. He didn't kiss her until episode 4, so there probably wasn't much to show in those episodes. I just really felt he was one episode too late.


Another clue should have also been that we never got to see the actual first kiss between Ashley and Ben.

I thought Ben was just joking with JP when he said he'd already kissed her. Maybe they really did and they just didn't show it because they preferred showing us all the ... drama. It still ticks me off that we didn't get to see Ashley's conversations with any of the other three guys in the final 4 (except for Ben in episode 1) until episode 4. How were we as viewers supposed to believe any of them had any chance if we didn't get to see much of them earlier on? I would've much rather seen that than ... I really hope TPTB learned their lesson from that whole storyline, so that next season won't be a disaster. I was really glad they got a lot of backlash for it.


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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by ironcat on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:55 pm

I think one thing that we have learned about Ashley post show is that she really wants/needs a lot of physical affection and forwardness from a guy; she doesn't want to have to chase him. Ben really spent the first week or two just hanging out with the other guys, and waited for her to seek him out, which she did in Phuket. Even then, he proceeded very slowly, and was not particularly aggressive or demonstrative physically with her, which I suspect is his nature. Very respectful of her, but Ashley needs more when she is into a guy. (I even remember how Bentley would lavish her with physical attention while he was "courting" her and she ate it up). I wonder how, had she actually chosen Ben, he would be coping with the same degree of public groping and displays of affection she so obviously is enjoying with JP. I suspect that was one area where she and Ben were not so compatible.

eta I am more convinced than ever that there was no prior kiss between Ben and Ashley other than the one we saw, and Ben was merely joking when he said that to JP. In fact, I think it was even mentioned on the MTP that the first real interaction he had with Ashley was in Phuket. Certainly, a prior kiss, if it happened, would count as "interaction".


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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by Love_Me on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:52 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Ben had to feel confident because he was lead to believe something that turned out not to be true. We might never know what it was that he was told either because he is under a strict contract.

Cute pic of Ben in your avatar. Is he at a Giants game or something?


Thanks. He did attend a Giants game and a fan tweeted this picture.

Link to recent pic of Ben at Tues. SF Giants game: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by Love_Me on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:49 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

I agree, I believe Ashley did have feelings for Ben and they were stronger than what she had for all the other guys except JP. I believe she felt stronger for Ben than she did for Bentley. Bentley was just a smokescreen, pure and simple. There is no way Ashley would be making out on the sofa with JP as we saw in that clip (shown in the montage at the FRC) the same day Bentley left if she was so in love with Bentley. That is why they did not show us that clip, the audience would not have believed that Ashley was pinning away for Bentley for the next three epsiodes.. But, back to Ben, maybe he was like Ames, just concentrating on his relationship with Ashley, Ames did not see a connection with anyone else, at least that is what he said in his interview. I don't believe that, based on what he said at the group date he had with JP and Lucas, he saw the connection, maybe he just convinced himself it was not real. : [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Absolutely Ashley had feelings for Ben that were stronger than those she had for all the other guys besides JP, but the gap was pretty wide between her feelings for JP and the next closest guy (Ben). Since the HK date, which Jash now have stated was the turning point in their relationship, happened before she really got to spend all that much time with Ben (she really only started noticing him in Phuket, and had just the one solo date and another group date before "the date" with JP), I think by the time of Ben's "overnight" date, everybody else was really just competing for second place, which Ben certainly won. But as JP has said repeatedly, his relationship with Ashley was just at a whole 'nother level. Ben was clearly her favorite from the second tier, and that's why he was F2.

I always felt it was too late for everyone else to have a good shot at being the F1 once JP had his first 1-on-1 date with Ashley. Maybe if Ben had come on stronger before that point, he would've had a better chance. We didn't get to see any of Ben and Ashley's conversations in the second or third episodes, so we have really no way of knowing what happened between them. He didn't kiss her until episode 4, so there probably wasn't much to show in those episodes. I just really felt he was one episode too late.


Another clue should have also been that we never got to see the actual first kiss between Ashley and Ben.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by bluwavz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:41 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

I agree, I believe Ashley did have feelings for Ben and they were stronger than what she had for all the other guys except JP. I believe she felt stronger for Ben than she did for Bentley. Bentley was just a smokescreen, pure and simple. There is no way Ashley would be making out on the sofa with JP as we saw in that clip (shown in the montage at the FRC) the same day Bentley left if she was so in love with Bentley. That is why they did not show us that clip, the audience would not have believed that Ashley was pinning away for Bentley for the next three epsiodes.. But, back to Ben, maybe he was like Ames, just concentrating on his relationship with Ashley, Ames did not see a connection with anyone else, at least that is what he said in his interview. I don't believe that, based on what he said at the group date he had with JP and Lucas, he saw the connection, maybe he just convinced himself it was not real. : no no


Absolutely Ashley had feelings for Ben that were stronger than those she had for all the other guys besides JP, but the gap was pretty wide between her feelings for JP and the next closest guy (Ben). Since the HK date, which Jash now have stated was the turning point in their relationship, happened before she really got to spend all that much time with Ben (she really only started noticing him in Phuket, and had just the one solo date and another group date before "the date" with JP), I think by the time of Ben's "overnight" date, everybody else was really just competing for second place, which Ben certainly won. But as JP has said repeatedly, his relationship with Ashley was just at a whole 'nother level. Ben was clearly her favorite from the second tier, and that's why he was F2.

I always felt it was too late for everyone else to have a good shot at being the F1 once JP had his first 1-on-1 date with Ashley. Maybe if Ben had come on stronger before that point, he would've had a better chance. We didn't get to see any of Ben and Ashley's conversations in the second or third episodes, so we have really no way of knowing what happened between them. He didn't kiss her until episode 4, so there probably wasn't much to show in those episodes. I just really felt he was one episode too late.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

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