Welcome!!

Become a Member of our site to be able to post and join in on the conversations!

A site for fans of The Bachelor & Bachelorette who enjoy

sleuthing and discussing Spoilers and Non Spoilers!

Join our site for updates on past contestants as well.

Discuss a variety of other shows, as well as International Bachelor and Bachelorette!


Enjoy!

Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Page 1 of 53 1, 2, 3 ... 27 ... 53  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by CarrieA on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:39 am

JBF and Lucas- I just wanted to thank both of you for all of your awesome posts, it really opened my eyes this season to different possibilities!

CarrieA

Female Posts : 3473
Join date : 2011-03-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by JBF on Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:07 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And perhaps one other important factor. Ashley's own family history hasn't been the smoothest of rides and I don't believe that she wants a Do-It-Yourself home makeover when she picks a husband. That's why she asked Jordan when the last time he cried was - she's trying to find out if there's anything in Jordan's past that could haunt her future.

Note how important the concept of "closure" is on this show. We hear nothing of Ashley's family troubles on this show and nothing of her romantic past because she got closure on all of that. She got closure on Bentley and had to share that with Jordan. Once she saw that Jordan was so comfortable with his romantic past and heartbreak that he could talk openly and casually about it that also got put behind her. Ashley seems fine with a past as long as there is closure on it so that the future can be opened up.

West said the right things about his ex wife but also alluded to the rock hidden beneath the surface. His wife had been the love of his life and that has to give one pause - is there room for another when you've already had the love of your life? West would have been an excellent choice in many ways with a good career and some stability and not bad to look at. But anyone picking West needs to be willing to put some fix up work and Ashley left her tool belt behind her when she went on the show.

Ben said he was over the heartbreak of his father's death but as we later see on the HTD that is very far from the truth. What family shows their family picture album with pictures of where they buried the deceased family member's ashes? Mine is full of pictures of Disneyland with my grand kids. Jordan's picture album is of his Bar Mitzvah which is a joyous occasion in his faith. I think if Ashley had known earlier what she found out on the HTD Ben would never have made it to F2. And maybe wouldn't have made it past F3 if Dino had stayed.

Interesting...

I do think Ben's only "problem" hinted is that maybe he wasn't around Dad enough in those later years as he wanted to be. As a twenty-something, he was out enjoying himself with buddies and starting his new career interests... whatever. Key quote from Ben was "I have regrets about those things", which relates to the overall "no regrets" theme of this season. Barbara says Dad is looking down on them proud. So... he got his closure with This Journey, I guess. Not sure how that relates to his "Nothing good ever ends well", but maybe the ATFR will prompt some sort of "no regrets" comment. Unfortunately, there are no Lambtonian Rainbows this season.

(OT: One curiosity: we hear Chrystie say "sugar coat" in the previews and the spoilers say Ben uses those words when he gets dumped. scratch )

Really disliked Ben's hometown date because it probably wasn't nearly as serious as they edited it. We didn't see the Sonny Bono get-up. It also looks like both Julia and Barbara have a sense of humor, but that was buried. (Barbara was just joking about "control over him" regarding the hair. I don't think she was that strict as a mommy.) It almost appeared that they purposely emphasized how uncomfortable Ashley was there, much as they did Trista visiting Charlie's family in Arizona (and their criticism of her after she left). Those opening hugs were so awkward, but probably not as bad as they appeared. Yet, the Rosenbaums were all excited and affectionate with her in New York... you just KNOW Fleiss showed that ON PURPOSE! Yes, we could all see how more compatable she was with JP's clan, but they overdid it a bit here.

I think the Biggest Theme of this season is all about "When was the last time you cried?"

Cases in point:

#1.

Mickey asks Ashley this in ep #2 and she replies: The last time I cried was when I was in the process of watching last season, having to live through, like, what people were saying and everyone judging you based on every little thing you wear, you say… and I think that was hard for me.
Mickey responds: Does it normally bother you if people are critical of you?
Ash: Yeah, I think so. I think so, to be honest. I guess people think that tears are weakness but I think you have to be strong to show that- show your emotions.

Of course, this is all put to the test on the comedy roast when Willie goes overboard. Then, instead of comforting her, he bolts out into the streets. All of her "can't make any guy happy because I'm not Emily" comes back.

When Mickey leaves in Hong Kong, after critiquing her "morals", she is crying. (Key "Hey" from JP when she returns to the other guys... we all melted watching that scene.)

Ironically, on "Men Tell All", the previews appear to show Jason M. and Ali (and maybe Deanna) telling Ashley not to take the criticism so seriously.

NOW... per the finale spoilers, Jordan is critiqued by Chrystie and apparently doesn't take it any better than Ashley does. Does he cry too?

#2:

When Bentley dumped her:

"Heartbreak is worse than any illness in my opinion. It’s not just physical pain, it is emotional pain, but it has to happen. The only other option I have is to stay and that’s not an option for me. So, I’m gonna make Ashley cry. Hope my hair looks OK."

"It didn’t go any better than I thought it was going to. I was worried it was going to go that bad… and it did. There was a lot of crying, a LOT of crying. It’s annoying to just hold a girl that’s just crying and crying and crying. I was already, like, checked out, y’know?"

In Hong Kong after Bentley, she repeats Mickey's question with Jordan. He brings up his heartbreak, which was "hinted" back in episode #3 but not discussed. In the hometowns, we are grilled by both Ilene and Roy how much he really must have cried over that heartbreak.

#3:

The other guys all lost somebody. Three dads and a step-dad with William, Ben and Ames. Mickey's mom, West's wife, Jeff almost lost his own life, Lucas had a bitter divorce... I really don't think this was all coincidence. The editors went to town with all of this. No mention of Ashley's ex here... so not completely sure why all of this was presented.

JBF

Posts : 4971
Join date : 2011-05-29
Location : Jack Benny Fan

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Lucas15 on Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:38 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:One thing I’ve picked up with the ‘ettes is that they seem to categorize the guys as either “husband” material or “boyfriend” material that could be husband material later. I’m guessing that Lucas, Ames and West were in the H category as well. Two of these got included in the wedding photo date. The primary reason she dumped West was on account of her thinking he wasn’t over his wife’s death. She was probably unsure about Ben, Dino, Blake and others… initially at least.

And perhaps one other important factor. Ashley's own family history hasn't been the smoothest of rides and I don't believe that she wants a Do-It-Yourself home makeover when she picks a husband. That's why she asked Jordan when the last time he cried was - she's trying to find out if there's anything in Jordan's past that could haunt her future.

Note how important the concept of "closure" is on this show. We hear nothing of Ashley's family troubles on this show and nothing of her romantic past because she got closure on all of that. She got closure on Bentley and had to share that with Jordan. Once she saw that Jordan was so comfortable with his romantic past and heartbreak that he could talk openly and casually about it that also got put behind her. Ashley seems fine with a past as long as there is closure on it so that the future can be opened up.

West said the right things about his ex wife but also alluded to the rock hidden beneath the surface. His wife had been the love of his life and that has to give one pause - is there room for another when you've already had the love of your life? West would have been an excellent choice in many ways with a good career and some stability and not bad to look at. But anyone picking West needs to be willing to put some fix up work and Ashley left her tool belt behind her when she went on the show.

Ben said he was over the heartbreak of his father's death but as we later see on the HTD that is very far from the truth. What family shows their family picture album with pictures of where they buried the deceased family member's ashes? Mine is full of pictures of Disneyland with my grand kids. Jordan's picture album is of his Bar Mitzvah which is a joyous occasion in his faith. I think if Ashley had known earlier what she found out on the HTD Ben would never have made it to F2. And maybe wouldn't have made it past F3 if Dino had stayed.

Lucas15

Male Posts : 2021
Join date : 2011-06-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by logomaniac on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:20 pm

I agree Albean, just look how up close and personal she got with Bent in the short time he was there. She was going for some passionate kisses right from the get go. That's how I knew JP was the F1 because after Bent left J.P. got those type of kisses. Not a single other person did. IMO

logomaniac

Posts : 44
Join date : 2011-07-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by albean99 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:19 pm

etherealfire wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm interested in the question of who originally was slated to be in Ashley's final four. Here's one hypothesis: Bentley, William, Ryan and JP. Hence the reason Ashley had a breakdown in epi three: two of her final four blew up in spectacular fashion (one leaving, the other showing he cares more about his "career" as a stand-up comedian than he did about her), and the third one fizzled (she kissed Ryan in that episode and it looked awkward). At that point, she had to face the fact that she had wasted her time picking the absolute wrong guys. Fortunately, she was left with JP, who helped pick up the pieces. Then, to round out the final four, she then dug deeper into her "pool", and picked Ben (who turned out to be a real contender), Constantine (friendly, low-key guy) and Ames (lovable, brainy, absolutely GREAT TV).

But who knows? I suspect Ames might have been a producer pick to go to final four right from the beginning, since they could spin an arc for him (the brainy guy who connects with Ashley on that level) and they knew he would make for fabulous TV. Ben also is a classic pick for final four because of his family story and the vineyard thing -- great hometown date material. Same with Constantine: a little sweetness and light to balance out the sadness in Ben's date. Plus every middle-aged woman in the world loved that Big Fat Greek Wedding movie.

I'm sure Ryan was told he was a lock for final four as well; hence his utter shock when she canned him in Taipei. Conversely, Constantine looked utterly bemused, and amused, when he found out he was going to Fiji. Clearly he thought (and/or hoped) that hometown dates were the end of the line.

Those are my thoughts. I want to page my good buddy jlccaz on this one, though; she's been around forever and has a good nose for this stuff.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I agree pretty with your Final Four hypothesis, though I sometimes wonder how much actual interest she had in Bentley - was it top 4 interest? Probably. I also think that Ben F, Ben C and Dino were in her (personal non-TPTB coerced) top 7 from the beginning.

Oh I think Bentley was her #1 guy until he took himself out. Just watch her face with him in the previews for the MTA. She's positively glowing. She may have switched to JP afterward but I think was all Bentley before that.

albean99
Moderator
Moderator

Female Posts : 11556
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Plano, Tx

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by JBF on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:12 pm

Awww thanks, thimini and bilolo

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I think the editing was odd. They had interactions with Ben to show if they wanted to. It didn't really have to be romantic but showing them talking to set Ben up as a potential f1 later on. Instead they chose to play up the Bentley thing and the roast drama. I don't know what the deal was unless they decided to run with the obvious f1 after the Bentley backlash but that doesn't make sense because it was already past the first episodes by then.

I do think the average viewer is still not as sure it's him as JP fans here have been. My coworkers missed the end like a lot of people so I'm not sure how many are going to the finale knowing who it's going to be. The one who likes Ben thinks that Ashley may pick him because he's a better match with her. She hates to be spoiled but I feel bad I can't warn her.

One thing I don't believe is that Fleiss did this to help the couple. I know he likes his success stories but that's not his focus which has always been about drama and ratings. If he really cared he wouldn't have gone so far with the Bentley fiasco. Ashley really took a hit with that but hopefully the media won't focus on it.

You can also add the fact that the average viewer does not have the same attention span as we eager "specialists" on this show. They don't bother re-watching shows for "clues". Once they see how well Ben hits it off with her family, they will be fully prepared for him being The One. No doubt, we will see JP fretting about getting his heart broken all episode long...

Just adding to the top interesting paragraph... really great questions addressed there.

The Bentley business was all about heartbreak. JP went through it. Now, Ashley.

The comedy roast, along with Willie abandoning her, is all about criticism and fear of men leaving her because she's not Emily.

JP will get it (family criticism) dished to him in the finale since he is not Ben and will fear her leaving him... I guess???

There was a LOT of Ben footage in the first three episodes of him OBSERVING Ashley, being a bit shy, etc. There was that classic shot with Blake watching Nick line-dance with her in episode #2, also his comments on her dancing (and physical form) in Las Vegas earlier. She uses the word "nervous" a lot with him. In contrast, the other one had to repeat Ryan's move with his "We got to talk" but-in, since he feared he would go home otherwise. Basically, Ben just waited for the "buzzing around" to happen.

Not that there is anything wrong with that. She did say during Constantine's date that love is not about winning. None of her final four were beating each other with clubs, although she did have some concern with JP a little there. Interestingly, BOTH Ben and Ashley told him to be patient (eps #2 & #4).

When they showed Ben mocking Masked Jeff like Ryan did, I thought that was downright strange. Ben doesn't look like the type to pick on others. Yet, now I realize "the point". He didn't quite "gasp the concept" of Jeff and his focus on how outer appearances/first impressions can be deceiving. Nobody else did either, I guess. Yet, they had both Ben and Ryan make quite a few comments on Jeff... and, for the record, Ryan had that look that a house was on fire when she dumped him.

I dunno. Maybe what I just mentioned is hogwash. Still scratching my head over all of that. Will both Ben and Ryan experience something similar that was foreshadowed early in the season?

I do see some of our beloved Reid in Ben's EDIT, not necessarily his personality. They show his funny side. She calls him her boyfriend. He is hesitent with his feelings. She is clueless as to whether or not he will propose.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
So who do you think were supposed to be her F2 and F3 guys? Ryan and Lucus? Just curious.

I know you were asking agentcurls that question, but I’ll do some guesswork.

I think both Willie and JP were her frontrunners (maybe F1 and F3… the latter position for “alternative F1s” when things don’t go well with the real one), but Ryan and Bentley were also high up there (maybe as F2/F4 possibilities since both are standing in the second row in that group picture taken before the rose ceremony… Bloomers would have more to add here on that). Bentley was, as Chris Harrison put it, “forbidden candy” she had to taste first. Ha ha! For the record, he DID say Michelle Money was not honest with her. She was going by her “gut” afterall and trusting him. (Is that something Laurie, Ash’s mom, comments on in the previews? Ashley discusses "gut" with Ilene Rosenbaum too.)

One thing I’ve picked up with the ‘ettes is that they seem to categorize the guys as either “husband” material or “boyfriend” material that could be husband material later. I’m guessing that Lucas, Ames and West were in the H category as well. Two of these got included in the wedding photo date. The primary reason she dumped West was on account of her thinking he wasn’t over his wife’s death. She was probably unsure about Ben, Dino, Blake and others… initially at least.

The H prospects are always the first to go once she focuses on her final one. West left in Phuket (about the time JP was evolving as numero uno). Then Willie the next week (despite being a 30-year old boy, she did almost marry him in Las Vegas), along with one she had less of a connection with, Ben C. I don’t think she had much interest in Nick. Mickey left on his own. Then, Ryan and Lucas… and Ames… were all technically H material. The top two boyfriends-who-might-be-husbands-later were taken with her final one to the Fantasy Dates. Poor Ben is viewing Ashley as a prospective wife, but she just might still be viewing him as a boyfriend at this stage. We shall see what comes out of her mouth in the finale.

JBF

Posts : 4971
Join date : 2011-05-29
Location : Jack Benny Fan

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:05 pm

@sushifan wrote:I'm interested in the question of who originally was slated to be in Ashley's final four. Here's one hypothesis: Bentley, William, Ryan and JP. Hence the reason Ashley had a breakdown in epi three: two of her final four blew up in spectacular fashion (one leaving, the other showing he cares more about his "career" as a stand-up comedian than he did about her), and the third one fizzled (she kissed Ryan in that episode and it looked awkward). At that point, she had to face the fact that she had wasted her time picking the absolute wrong guys. Fortunately, she was left with JP, who helped pick up the pieces. Then, to round out the final four, she then dug deeper into her "pool", and picked Ben (who turned out to be a real contender), Constantine (friendly, low-key guy) and Ames (lovable, brainy, absolutely GREAT TV).

But who knows? I suspect Ames might have been a producer pick to go to final four right from the beginning, since they could spin an arc for him (the brainy guy who connects with Ashley on that level) and they knew he would make for fabulous TV. Ben also is a classic pick for final four because of his family story and the vineyard thing -- great hometown date material. Same with Constantine: a little sweetness and light to balance out the sadness in Ben's date. Plus every middle-aged woman in the world loved that Big Fat Greek Wedding movie.

I'm sure Ryan was told he was a lock for final four as well; hence his utter shock when she canned him in Taipei. Conversely, Constantine looked utterly bemused, and amused, when he found out he was going to Fiji. Clearly he thought (and/or hoped) that hometown dates were the end of the line.

Those are my thoughts. I want to page my good buddy jlccaz on this one, though; she's been around forever and has a good nose for this stuff.

I agree pretty with your Final Four hypothesis, though I sometimes wonder how much actual interest she had in Bentley - was it top 4 interest? Probably. I also think that Ben F, Ben C and Dino were in her (personal non-TPTB coerced) top 7 from the beginning.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by bluwavz on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:03 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'm interested in the question of who originally was slated to be in Ashley's final four. Here's one hypothesis: Bentley, William, Ryan and JP. Hence the reason Ashley had a breakdown in epi three: two of her final four blew up in spectacular fashion (one leaving, the other showing he cares more about his "career" as a stand-up comedian than he did about her), and the third one fizzled (she kissed Ryan in that episode and it looked awkward). At that point, she had to face the fact that she had wasted her time picking the absolute wrong guys. Fortunately, she was left with JP, who helped pick up the pieces. Then, to round out the final four, she then dug deeper into her "pool", and picked Ben (who turned out to be a real contender), Constantine (friendly, low-key guy) and Ames (lovable, brainy, absolutely GREAT TV).

But who knows? I suspect Ames might have been a producer pick to go to final four right from the beginning, since they could spin an arc for him (the brainy guy who connects with Ashley on that level) and they knew he would make for fabulous TV. Ben also is a classic pick for final four because of his family story and the vineyard thing -- great hometown date material. Same with Constantine: a little sweetness and light to balance out the sadness in Ben's date. Plus every middle-aged woman in the world loved that Big Fat Greek Wedding movie.

I'm sure Ryan was told he was a lock for final four as well; hence his utter shock when she canned him in Taipei. Conversely, Constantine looked utterly bemused, and amused, when he found out he was going to Fiji. Clearly he thought (and/or hoped) that hometown dates were the end of the line.

Those are my thoughts. I want to page my good buddy jlccaz on this one, though; she's been around forever and has a good nose for this stuff.

There's so much I agree with in your post. I also believe her original F4 were JP, ..., Ryan and William. According to a few past contestants, the leads are asked who they want as their F4 the first night. As much as it pains me to say it, Ben wasn't on her radar until episode 4 and she even pretty much said so in the last episode, so he couldn't have been an original pick. I do think she had feelings for Ben beyond friendship, though. She acted differently around him than the other 23 guys. It's just she had much stronger feelings for JP and by the time Ben caught her eye in episode 4, it was a little too late. JP had already started catching her heart the previous episode after Bentley left. I think most of her attraction to Constantine was physical. He's her type. I also agree that Ames was probably a producer pick. His uniqueness makes viewers like him. I think if she had been going by who she was actually attracted to, I'd say Lucas would've made it into the F4 instead of Ames.

bluwavz
Moderator
Moderator

Female Posts : 9293
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : South Carolina

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by sushifan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:48 pm

I'm interested in the question of who originally was slated to be in Ashley's final four. Here's one hypothesis: Bentley, William, Ryan and JP. Hence the reason Ashley had a breakdown in epi three: two of her final four blew up in spectacular fashion (one leaving, the other showing he cares more about his "career" as a stand-up comedian than he did about her), and the third one fizzled (she kissed Ryan in that episode and it looked awkward). At that point, she had to face the fact that she had wasted her time picking the absolute wrong guys. Fortunately, she was left with JP, who helped pick up the pieces. Then, to round out the final four, she then dug deeper into her "pool", and picked Ben (who turned out to be a real contender), Constantine (friendly, low-key guy) and Ames (lovable, brainy, absolutely GREAT TV).

But who knows? I suspect Ames might have been a producer pick to go to final four right from the beginning, since they could spin an arc for him (the brainy guy who connects with Ashley on that level) and they knew he would make for fabulous TV. Ben also is a classic pick for final four because of his family story and the vineyard thing -- great hometown date material. Same with Constantine: a little sweetness and light to balance out the sadness in Ben's date. Plus every middle-aged woman in the world loved that Big Fat Greek Wedding movie.

I'm sure Ryan was told he was a lock for final four as well; hence his utter shock when she canned him in Taipei. Conversely, Constantine looked utterly bemused, and amused, when he found out he was going to Fiji. Clearly he thought (and/or hoped) that hometown dates were the end of the line.

Those are my thoughts. I want to page my good buddy jlccaz on this one, though; she's been around forever and has a good nose for this stuff.

sushifan

Posts : 268
Join date : 2011-07-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by ninu on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:32 pm

Maybe it would've been, JP, BNB, Constantine and Ben... set up for a good v. evil finale no idea

ninu

Female Posts : 2347
Join date : 2011-03-23
Location : Toronto, ON, Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Love_Me on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:11 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I believe Ashley pursued both Constantine & Ben as F4 contenders because she knew they weren't really emotionally available. It would make her final decision that much easier. She is a smart cookie. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


So who do you think were supposed to be her F2 and F3 guys? Ryan and Lucus? Just curious.

Love_Me

Female Posts : 32811
Join date : 2011-03-22

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by bilolo on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:06 pm

really JBF great post bowdown

bilolo

Female Posts : 2991
Join date : 2011-06-17
Age : 36

Back to top Go down

Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Sponsored content Today at 3:45 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 53 1, 2, 3 ... 27 ... 53  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum