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Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by thimini on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:22 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Coastal wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think the edit changed. The characters are different every season but the formula is the same.

The beginning of the season the F1 is established with the lead. The F2 is established as a personality. Ben's time with Ash was edited out in the beginning but we saw him with some pretty hilarious PI's about "the mask". Just like Chantal, just like CL. I know this word is over used on here LOL but JP established the "cupcake" connection from night 1. They left that convo in for a reason. They left in the "JP over Bentley in the kiss dept" and conveniently left off "but Bentley over JP in the heart dept." This is the couple they were trying to "sell". It has been obvious for the past couple of seasons that has not changed. F2 always comes in later in the season. Just like Ben, Chantal, CL. The characters change the story does not. The F1's story always starts at the beginning. If someone is MIA for the first couple episodes (aside from PI's and house fun) they are not F1.

They should have showed Ben alot more. They really shot themselves in foot with that one.

Anyone know when they have to have the editing of the next episode completed? Me thinks that all of the Jash drama was edited out this week because they knew all is well in paradise. With Ash's sister being at the ATFR and saying her opinion changed via twitter (Thanks GrahamGal!) I wonder what we will really see next week in regards to the sister confrontation. Will it be shown at all? We will see the resolution during the finale? Or will it only happen at the ATFR?

The ATFR is in the can. Time to sell the happy couple.

So do you remember the last time the F1 was so in your face as JP was this season?? IMO, it just isn't a typical edit coming from Fleiss.........Usually the F1 is a lot more hidden than JP was this time.

We now know the reason why. Yes, this season's editing threw everybody in a loop, tossing the "rules" out the window.

Ashley's family had to see this play out and this required a completely different dynamic. Ali's family accepted both Chris and Roberto, so it didn't really matter that one finalist's "connection" was presented mostly as "hot" while the other as "amazing husband" to fool viewers. This season it DID matter in order to save a relationship in which the lead places such an importance of criticism and family approval (cf. first "When was the last time you cried?" discussion in Mickey's 1 on 1 date in Las Vegas), because Ashley chose the man they disapproved of based on FIRST IMPRESSIONS.

In addition, last season's hometown presented a HUGE Red Flag in regards to Ashley's family relationship. She brought Brad home and he won them over. Yet, Ashley stated this in her PI: I think my family has an inflated sense of my confidence. I think they see me in these situations when I’m, like, comfortable. They do NOT see me when I’m out of my element.

This also explains Masked Jeff, William's comedy roast and Bentley this season. One based his mask gimmick on First Impressions and trying to get people to "see inside". (When he removed his mask, Ashley cracked that he looked "older", a criticism resembling... I think... Chrystie with JP.) Later, in the hometown, Ilene Rosenbaum confirmed to Ashley that JP was not just looking at her outer surfaces, but also the beauty "inside". William's roast and Bentley abrupt departure, in turn, created two situations in which Ashley was "out of her element". She needed somebody to be her Rock to pull her through.

The temporary departure of William was even greater in impact than Bentley's: I’m talking to the guys but I can’t stop thinking about William. All I wanted him to do was just comfort me but instead he wants to leave.

Again, Chrystie knew NOTHING about any of this drama before the show started broadcasting.

BOTH Jordan and Ben are wonderful guys destined to make any woman feel special, but their responses to Ashley's situation IN THIS SEASON profoundly impacted their relationships with her:

JP initiating the conversation (his "We've got to talk" contrasts with Bentley's "Let's not talk", HUGE theme this season):
Obviously Bentley went home today. That’s got to be so difficult. So, first thing I just want to make sure you’re OK.

In episode #4 Phuket, JP was the one she was worried about since "We haven’t had much time to talk and I don’t really know where he stands." Right away, her connection was built on something more than just the open-mouthed kissing.

In contrast, Ben sealed his fate... somewhat (not trying to be dramatic here... LOL!):
Ashley: I did go through a hard time last week, I think more than people understand… (Right) and I’m trying to get back on the horse.
Ben: You’ll figure it out. You’re a smart girl.

Ben did NOTHING wrong here. Yet, this scene simply shows something may have been missing and required more work here. He starts viewing her as a potential wife and fiancé, but twice she calls him a boyfriend. This suggests that something isn't being communicated, since their perceptions of the relationship are not the same. This will build up to an unexpected finale, when Ben THINKS Ashley understands their "unspoken" connection (Ashley even mentions this back in episode #5). When he proposes (I think he will), she will be speechless.

Another key difference highlighted:
Ben TELLING the cameras: The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that’s part of it, at the same time if I end up with the girl that I love then that would be a dream come true.
Jordan TELLING Ashley: At the end of all this, someone… someone’s heart is going to be broken, but unless I completely… completely put myself out there and expose my vulnerability and allow myself to get hurt, there is no way that we could ever work…

However, she doesn't have a good "read" on Ben, because she is used to Jordan COMMUNICATING everything from Bentley's Heartbreak on her to HIS own heartbreak to Constantine and Ryan's departures to his jealousy issue in Taiwan to his worries about The Other Relationship (i.e. Ben). Is there anything this season they haven't discussed? JP (ep #6): "I don’t want you to feel like you can’t tell me something because you’re afraid to or, you know, afraid that I might judge or react in a way that’s, like, I don’t know, that would make you feel bad. Like, I want you to tell me whatever’s on your mind."

Obviously, in the finale, she doesn't tell him everything so... of course, the unspoiled viewer will think this will be his Heartbreak #2.

Blake called JP out as a "sand bagger" in Hong Kong because he was the first to know about Bentley, but... as we saw when he was talking to Ashley that episode (and she addressed it in her convo with Chris Harrison), she was having trouble communicating her feelings to The Guys... well all but one, apparently.

This all goes back to the communication problems she has with her own family... and why the SHOW has to communicate for her to THEM.

WOW! What a great post.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by ironcat on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:50 pm

As far as patterns go, the only one that has held absolutely steady since Jill's season (now 5 in a row) is that the F1 gets a solo date on episode 3. Next season maybe we should start with that and work backwards to see if we can prove or disprove it.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by beader on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:26 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I believe Ashley pursued both Constantine & Ben as F4 contenders because she knew they weren't really emotionally available. It would make her final decision that much easier. She is a smart cookie. :cc4:
Agree. I posted way back she took the Groban twins to the end as she knew they were least invested and the ones who JP knew she would not connect with on an emotional level and just the friend vibe. Boy, did I get beatup on here that day, still have bruises. affraid

Thanks you for posting that, Agentcurls. My feeling exactly.
Gina, I must have missed that beating--I would have defended you. :yes:

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by noobsleuth on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:25 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have a question that might need to go in the general discussion thread. Do you think TPTB went back to basics these last few seasons? Do you know what I mean by that? Also, why are the Bachelorette couples these last few season able to keep it together with their F1, but the Bachelor leads have not been able to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to basics" necessarily, but I think each season has a different edit because of the people involved. One thing that remains constant is the immediate establishment of the F1 and lead's relationship and showing it in every episode starting with M&G. This was never more obvious than this season when Ben was MIA in the most critical episode (3) while JP was the shining star. I think it's because they just didn't have enough footage of Ben with Ash that would be convincing enough though, so it's really the lead and her behavior that pushed for this edit IMO.


Totally agree. I know a lot of people like looking at the edits, but I don't see how they can be consistent from season to season when the leads and contestants are so different! But yes...immediate establishment of the F1 seems to be a given. I would think they want the audience to see that someone has been a viable F1 from day one...and not come on half way through as a back-up of sorts.

Girl, I tell ya you are always right there wording my thoughts better than I could. Yes a jealous F1 is out of character for this show. That's not what I was trying to argue. It's not even about the quality of the time with the lead spent it's about the quantity. It's pretty simple. JP and Ben are the F2. Ben was MIA the first 3 episodes. He cannot be F1. These are the editing facts that have not changed. Same formula different characters. Don't get me started on jealous characters and why certain people are edited with certain personalities... I have no clue! LOL

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:04 pm

@agentcurls wrote:I believe Ashley pursued both Constantine & Ben as F4 contenders because she knew they weren't really emotionally available. It would make her final decision that much easier. She is a smart cookie. :cc4:
Agree. I posted way back she took the Groban twins to the end as she knew they were least invested and the ones who JP knew she would not connect with on an emotional level and just the friend vibe. Boy, did I get beatup on here that day, still have bruises. affraid

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by agentcurls on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:48 pm

I believe Ashley pursued both Constantine & Ben as F4 contenders because she knew they weren't really emotionally available. It would make her final decision that much easier. She is a smart cookie. :cc4:

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by philphan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:24 pm

So many great posts on this thread this AM! I think there were a number of variables that contributed to the edit this year.

- Ashley acknowledged that she can't really hide her feelings. The editing team can do a a lot of cutting/splicing but they can't perform magic!

- The Brad/Em downfall played a big role in the edit, imo. Regardless of what he says, Fleiss wants the couples to work out. Definitely helps move the franchise forward.

- You can't highlight Ben in the first few episodes if the interactions are not there or are insignificant. IMO Ben only came to the forefront in later episodes because others that Ashley had initial interest in had left.

- Bentley! Fleiss overplayed his cards on that one and needed to get back to building up Ashley's securities pronto! JP was the "knight in shining armor" who helped do that.

I think if anything, I have learned that you never know what Fleiss has up his sleeve. I've watched this show from its inception and never thought I would see the type of love story I did this season. I don't know if we'll get another one so quickly so I'm going to savor every last minute of the show next week.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by klarson79 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:30 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have a question that might need to go in the general discussion thread. Do you think TPTB went back to basics these last few seasons? Do you know what I mean by that? Also, why are the Bachelorette couples these last few season able to keep it together with their F1, but the Bachelor leads have not been able to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to basics" necessarily, but I think each season has a different edit because of the people involved. One thing that remains constant is the immediate establishment of the F1 and lead's relationship and showing it in every episode starting with M&G. This was never more obvious than this season when Ben was MIA in the most critical episode (3) while JP was the shining star. I think it's because they just didn't have enough footage of Ben with Ash that would be convincing enough though, so it's really the lead and her behavior that pushed for this edit IMO.


Totally agree. I know a lot of people like looking at the edits, but I don't see how they can be consistent from season to season when the leads and contestants are so different! But yes...immediate establishment of the F1 seems to be a given. I would think they want the audience to see that someone has been a viable F1 from day one...and not come on half way through as a back-up of sorts.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Bronwyn on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:17 am

I think one of the reasons they chose to show the love story is because they did overplay the Bentley drama, and after losing so many viewers because of it, chose to go this route in order to reel them back in. I also think part of the reason is the disaster Brad and Emily turned out to be, they wanted to get viewers back on board with this show, what better way than give them the flat out love story they've been begging for for years. And then there's the fact that they had no choice but to show it, because as far as story telling, that was all they had, other than the drama they created to camouflage it.

I'm sure Fleiss has a heart in there somewhere, but I don't know if his reasons were because it was better for the couple, although he has to know a successful couple, for however long they may last, is the key to keeping this franchise going. I'm sure he knows that in the end, that's what viewers want to see. While he's never really seemed to care before, and has stated such in interviews, this was his way of drawing viewers back in. After Brad and Emily and their trainwreck of an ATFR, and the Bentley overload, this show was in trouble. So while it benefited Ashley and JP, it benefited him more to show things the way he did.

I'm sure he will go back to his old ways in the next show. Which is one of the reasons, that as much as I would love to see Ben as the Bachelor, because he is such a great guy, I hope he tells them to piss off, because I just don't trust them to not ruin him, the way they have done some of the past contestants who have gone on to be the primary. I don't want to see that happen to Ben.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by albean99 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:48 am

I think the editing was odd. They had interactions with Ben to show if they wanted to. It didn't really have to be romantic but showing them talking to set Ben up as a potential f1 later on. Instead they chose to play up the Bentley thing and the roast drama. I don't know what the deal was unless they decided to run with the obvious f1 after the Bentley backlash but that doesn't make sense because it was already past the first episodes by then.

I do think the average viewer is still not as sure it's him as JP fans here have been. My coworkers missed the end like a lot of people so I'm not sure how many are going to the finale knowing who it's going to be. The one who likes Ben thinks that Ashley may pick him because he's a better match with her. She hates to be spoiled but I feel bad I can't warn her.

One thing I don't believe is that Fleiss did this to help the couple. I know he likes his success stories but that's not his focus which has always been about drama and ratings. If he really cared he wouldn't have gone so far with the Bentley fiasco. Ashley really took a hit with that but hopefully the media won't focus on it.


"Love is the Only Reality" -Ed Lambton

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by ironcat on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:48 am

I hadn't really thought about it, and it's always hard for me to believe that MF really has a heart, but you're right, JBF, that there is no way anyone who truly cares about Ashley could have watched the show unfold and not see that JP would be good to, and for, her, which is obviously what happened in Chrystie's case. Not to mention that Ash was completely gaga over him, and thus, picking anyone else instead would have been a recipe for disaster.

And I also agree with Alanna that her family no doubt sees Ash as both the achiever who can do it all, but also still the baby/child in the family, and didn't realize that she needed/was ready for a relationship with a strong mature man who would support her unconditionally, rather than a fun loving playmate/boyfriend to act goofy with.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by JBF on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:42 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:It was all there from Day 1. Thanks, show, for finally getting something right!

Agree with it all, but had to pinpoint this line.

I think we can sleep soundly knowing that Fleiss provided us at least one Emmy-worthy edition. That makes stomaching whatever crap he dishes out on Bachelor Pad and the next Bachelor so much easier. Ha ha!

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