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Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Alanna on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:34 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
We now know the reason why. Yes, this season's editing threw everybody in a loop, tossing the "rules" out the window.

Ashley's family had to see this play out and this required a completely different dynamic. Ali's family accepted both Chris and Roberto, so it didn't really matter that one finalist's "connection" was presented mostly as "hot" while the other as "amazing husband" to fool viewers. This season it DID matter in order to save a relationship in which the lead places such an importance of criticism and family approval (cf. first "When was the last time you cried?" discussion in Mickey's 1 on 1 date in Las Vegas), because Ashley chose the man they disapproved of based on FIRST IMPRESSIONS.

In addition, last season's hometown presented a HUGE Red Flag in regards to Ashley's family relationship. She brought Brad home and he won them over. Yet, Ashley stated this in her PI: I think my family has an inflated sense of my confidence. I think they see me in these situations when I’m, like, comfortable. They do NOT see me when I’m out of my element.

[snip for brevity]

Excellent post! About Ashley's family, I think she's their golden child (dance, skating, Penn, and now FAME!) and they don't necessarily realize how much comfort and support she needs sometimes. OTOH, JP immediately became her support system and said "it was normal and it's going to happen" regarding her "bad day" about Bentley.

Also, like you said, the show basically communicated that JP was the only one for her starting with M&G:

M&G- cupcake talk, something totally unique to Ashley and their potential relationship versus talking about the other guys' careers or their own hopes, etc.
2nd ep- coin flip kiss, everyone else in F4 is MIA.
3rd ep- her "rock," once again, everyone but Mickey, Ryan, William, and Bentley is MIA. We were spoiled so we knew they were irrelevant.
4th ep- Ben gets GDR but she spends the entire time worrying about JP and grilling him on whether he's leaving her. Then Ashley and her prudish self go further on that beach with him than she did with anyone else until she got to the FD with him.
5th ep- freaks out over him getting pummeled, cheers when he wins, only one she cuddles with, and then of course, more grilling about leaving her and some Chinese food.
6th ep- self-explanatory, only one who matters about Bentley, "100% yours now."
7th ep- everyone who throws a fit or misbehaves is told "see ya!" JP is rewarded with a rose and kisses for his tantruming.
8th ep- "Smitten with your son," and some mauling on the floor while he's defenseless. rotfl
9th ep- FD time! Oh and just in case we forget, some more grilling if he's leaving her or not serious.

It was all there from Day 1. Thanks, show, for finally getting something right!

ETA: Iron, we share a brain. It's cool! :iloveyou

Alanna

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by ironcat on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:27 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have a question that might need to go in the general discussion thread. Do you think TPTB went back to basics these last few seasons? Do you know what I mean by that? Also, why are the Bachelorette couples these last few season able to keep it together with their F1, but the Bachelor leads have not been able to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to basics" necessarily, but I think each season has a different edit because of the people involved. One thing that remains constant is the immediate establishment of the F1 and lead's relationship and showing it in every episode starting with M&G. This was never more obvious than this season when Ben was MIA in the most critical episode (3) while JP was the shining star. I think it's because they just didn't have enough footage of Ben with Ash that would be convincing enough though, so it's really the lead and her behavior that pushed for this edit IMO.


ITA Alanna (what a surprise :giggle: ). The edit can do a lot of things, but it can't create a storyline out of thin air with no footage to back it up. Ashley didn't target her F2 until the 4th episode, after some of her initial choices took themselves out of contention, so there was no story to tell with Ben until Phuket. And for them to have hidden JP more than they did (and I do believe had they shown all the footage they had of the two of them, it would have been even more obvious, if that's even possible), they needed something to put in its place. Anyone care to suggest what that might have been? More bromances? Possibly, but since the show is still titled "The Bachelorette", they needed footage that revolved around Ashley, and it appeared that in a good deal of that footage, her lips were attached to JP's or her hands were all over him, or her thoughts were full of him, and not on the other guys. The editors really had to scramble to find any distractions/deviations that they could from the "Ashley loves JP" story in front of them.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by JBF on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:22 am

Coastal wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think the edit changed. The characters are different every season but the formula is the same.

The beginning of the season the F1 is established with the lead. The F2 is established as a personality. Ben's time with Ash was edited out in the beginning but we saw him with some pretty hilarious PI's about "the mask". Just like Chantal, just like CL. I know this word is over used on here LOL but JP established the "cupcake" connection from night 1. They left that convo in for a reason. They left in the "JP over Bentley in the kiss dept" and conveniently left off "but Bentley over JP in the heart dept." This is the couple they were trying to "sell". It has been obvious for the past couple of seasons that has not changed. F2 always comes in later in the season. Just like Ben, Chantal, CL. The characters change the story does not. The F1's story always starts at the beginning. If someone is MIA for the first couple episodes (aside from PI's and house fun) they are not F1.

They should have showed Ben alot more. They really shot themselves in foot with that one.

Anyone know when they have to have the editing of the next episode completed? Me thinks that all of the Jash drama was edited out this week because they knew all is well in paradise. With Ash's sister being at the ATFR and saying her opinion changed via twitter (Thanks GrahamGal!) I wonder what we will really see next week in regards to the sister confrontation. Will it be shown at all? We will see the resolution during the finale? Or will it only happen at the ATFR?

The ATFR is in the can. Time to sell the happy couple.

So do you remember the last time the F1 was so in your face as JP was this season?? IMO, it just isn't a typical edit coming from Fleiss.........Usually the F1 is a lot more hidden than JP was this time.

We now know the reason why. Yes, this season's editing threw everybody in a loop, tossing the "rules" out the window.

Ashley's family had to see this play out and this required a completely different dynamic. Ali's family accepted both Chris and Roberto, so it didn't really matter that one finalist's "connection" was presented mostly as "hot" while the other as "amazing husband" to fool viewers. This season it DID matter in order to save a relationship in which the lead places such an importance of criticism and family approval (cf. first "When was the last time you cried?" discussion in Mickey's 1 on 1 date in Las Vegas), because Ashley chose the man they disapproved of based on FIRST IMPRESSIONS.

In addition, last season's hometown presented a HUGE Red Flag in regards to Ashley's family relationship. She brought Brad home and he won them over. Yet, Ashley stated this in her PI: I think my family has an inflated sense of my confidence. I think they see me in these situations when I’m, like, comfortable. They do NOT see me when I’m out of my element.

This also explains Masked Jeff, William's comedy roast and Bentley this season. One based his mask gimmick on First Impressions and trying to get people to "see inside". (When he removed his mask, Ashley cracked that he looked "older", a criticism resembling... I think... Chrystie with JP.) Later, in the hometown, Ilene Rosenbaum confirmed to Ashley that JP was not just looking at her outer surfaces, but also the beauty "inside". William's roast and Bentley abrupt departure, in turn, created two situations in which Ashley was "out of her element". She needed somebody to be her Rock to pull her through.

The temporary departure of William was even greater in impact than Bentley's: I’m talking to the guys but I can’t stop thinking about William. All I wanted him to do was just comfort me but instead he wants to leave.

Again, Chrystie knew NOTHING about any of this drama before the show started broadcasting.

BOTH Jordan and Ben are wonderful guys destined to make any woman feel special, but their responses to Ashley's situation IN THIS SEASON profoundly impacted their relationships with her:

JP initiating the conversation (his "We've got to talk" contrasts with Bentley's "Let's not talk", HUGE theme this season):
Obviously Bentley went home today. That’s got to be so difficult. So, first thing I just want to make sure you’re OK.

In episode #4 Phuket, JP was the one she was worried about since "We haven’t had much time to talk and I don’t really know where he stands." Right away, her connection was built on something more than just the open-mouthed kissing.

In contrast, Ben sealed his fate... somewhat (not trying to be dramatic here... LOL!):
Ashley: I did go through a hard time last week, I think more than people understand… (Right) and I’m trying to get back on the horse.
Ben: You’ll figure it out. You’re a smart girl.

Ben did NOTHING wrong here. Yet, this scene simply shows something may have been missing and required more work here. He starts viewing her as a potential wife and fiancé, but twice she calls him a boyfriend. This suggests that something isn't being communicated, since their perceptions of the relationship are not the same. This will build up to an unexpected finale, when Ben THINKS Ashley understands their "unspoken" connection (Ashley even mentions this back in episode #5). When he proposes (I think he will), she will be speechless.

Another key difference highlighted:
Ben TELLING the cameras: The walls are down and if that means I get crushed in the end that’s part of it, at the same time if I end up with the girl that I love then that would be a dream come true.
Jordan TELLING Ashley: At the end of all this, someone… someone’s heart is going to be broken, but unless I completely… completely put myself out there and expose my vulnerability and allow myself to get hurt, there is no way that we could ever work…

However, she doesn't have a good "read" on Ben, because she is used to Jordan COMMUNICATING everything from Bentley's Heartbreak on her to HIS own heartbreak to Constantine and Ryan's departures to his jealousy issue in Taiwan to his worries about The Other Relationship (i.e. Ben). Is there anything this season they haven't discussed? JP (ep #6): "I don’t want you to feel like you can’t tell me something because you’re afraid to or, you know, afraid that I might judge or react in a way that’s, like, I don’t know, that would make you feel bad. Like, I want you to tell me whatever’s on your mind."

Obviously, in the finale, she doesn't tell him everything so... of course, the unspoiled viewer will think this will be his Heartbreak #2.

Blake called JP out as a "sand bagger" in Hong Kong because he was the first to know about Bentley, but... as we saw when he was talking to Ashley that episode (and she addressed it in her convo with Chris Harrison), she was having trouble communicating her feelings to The Guys... well all but one, apparently.

This all goes back to the communication problems she has with her own family... and why the SHOW has to communicate for her to THEM.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Alanna on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:44 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I have a question that might need to go in the general discussion thread. Do you think TPTB went back to basics these last few seasons? Do you know what I mean by that? Also, why are the Bachelorette couples these last few season able to keep it together with their F1, but the Bachelor leads have not been able to?

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to basics" necessarily, but I think each season has a different edit because of the people involved. One thing that remains constant is the immediate establishment of the F1 and lead's relationship and showing it in every episode starting with M&G. This was never more obvious than this season when Ben was MIA in the most critical episode (3) while JP was the shining star. I think it's because they just didn't have enough footage of Ben with Ash that would be convincing enough though, so it's really the lead and her behavior that pushed for this edit IMO.


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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by gurlbrit on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:56 am

Coastal wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I don't think the edit changed. The characters are different every season but the formula is the same.

The beginning of the season the F1 is established with the lead. The F2 is established as a personality. Ben's time with Ash was edited out in the beginning but we saw him with some pretty hilarious PI's about "the mask". Just like Chantal, just like CL. I know this word is over used on here LOL but JP established the "cupcake" connection from night 1. They left that convo in for a reason. They left in the "JP over Bentley in the kiss dept" and conveniently left off "but Bentley over JP in the heart dept." This is the couple they were trying to "sell". It has been obvious for the past couple of seasons that has not changed. F2 always comes in later in the season. Just like Ben, Chantal, CL. The characters change the story does not. The F1's story always starts at the beginning. If someone is MIA for the first couple episodes (aside from PI's and house fun) they are not F1.

They should have showed Ben alot more. They really shot themselves in foot with that one.

Anyone know when they have to have the editing of the next episode completed? Me thinks that all of the Jash drama was edited out this week because they knew all is well in paradise. With Ash's sister being at the ATFR and saying her opinion changed via twitter (Thanks GrahamGal!) I wonder what we will really see next week in regards to the sister confrontation. Will it be shown at all? We will see the resolution during the finale? Or will it only happen at the ATFR?

The ATFR is in the can. Time to sell the happy couple.

So do you remember the last time the F1 was so in your face as JP was this season?? IMO, it just isn't a typical edit coming from Fleiss.........Usually the F1 is a lot more hidden than JP was this time.

I don't think the F1 has ever been "So in your Face" as it was this season. Ian in Meredith's season had a chemistry edit, ended up being F1, but that was way back when. I could see that Ali was into Roberto in a big way in her season but with the smoke and mirrors of Frank, ChrisL, Rego etc it wasn't until closer to the end that it was evident that she had chosen Roberto. I never did care for Ed and saw that Jillian was absolutely gobsmacked over him so didn't want to see it that time (that was the last time I was impartial, biased or whatever).

For the Bachelor's, the only one I really saw being chased big time was Emily by Brad, Andy did a certain amount of chasing with Tessa and her baby steps. Shayne was obvious but that was because she was a friend of the MF family. The others not so much.

Again I wonder whether TPTB were thrown through a loop by Brad II and the disaster it became because of Em's insecurities and the edit, or possibly it was just too darn hard to hide what Ashley was feeling. In her Philly interview she said that most people should be able to ascertain who she chose by now because she's an open book where her emotions are concerned, makes for problematical editing that she doesn't have a poker face.

Just a few thoughts. Hopefully TPTB will continue to give us a good program to watch even if our favorite doesn't always get the girl/guy. yes

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Guest on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:02 am

@noobsleuth wrote:I don't think the edit changed. The characters are different every season but the formula is the same.

The beginning of the season the F1 is established with the lead. The F2 is established as a personality. Ben's time with Ash was edited out in the beginning but we saw him with some pretty hilarious PI's about "the mask". Just like Chantal, just like CL. I know this word is over used on here LOL but JP established the "cupcake" connection from night 1. They left that convo in for a reason. They left in the "JP over Bentley in the kiss dept" and conveniently left off "but Bentley over JP in the heart dept." This is the couple they were trying to "sell". It has been obvious for the past couple of seasons that has not changed. F2 always comes in later in the season. Just like Ben, Chantal, CL. The characters change the story does not. The F1's story always starts at the beginning. If someone is MIA for the first couple episodes (aside from PI's and house fun) they are not F1.

They should have showed Ben alot more. They really shot themselves in foot with that one.

Anyone know when they have to have the editing of the next episode completed? Me thinks that all of the Jash drama was edited out this week because they knew all is well in paradise. With Ash's sister being at the ATFR and saying her opinion changed via twitter (Thanks GrahamGal!) I wonder what we will really see next week in regards to the sister confrontation. Will it be shown at all? We will see the resolution during the finale? Or will it only happen at the ATFR?

The ATFR is in the can. Time to sell the happy couple.

So do you remember the last time the F1 was so in your face as JP was this season?? IMO, it just isn't a typical edit coming from Fleiss.........Usually the F1 is a lot more hidden than JP was this time.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Love_Me on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:22 am

I have a question that might need to go in the general discussion thread. Do you think TPTB went back to basics these last few seasons? Do you know what I mean by that? Also, why are the Bachelorette couples these last few season able to keep it together with their F1, but the Bachelor leads have not been able to?

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by bing2262 on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:48 pm

We all need to remember that the purpose and mission of the Bachelor/ette reality TV show was to give the audience a chance to live out/share their fantasy of finding true love. For the show to draw an audience, there needs to be an emotional connection to the Lead and the contestants.TPTB will have to show us that there is a believable love story developing to keep us interested in the show and become emotionally invested to the main characters to continue to follow their journey week after week.
TPTB will sometimes resort to ingenious , sometimes deceptive editing to make it suspenseful , entertaining and keep an element of surprise but the bottom line is the Love Story if indeed there was one that developed has to be shown and broadcast triumphantly . What was the point in hiding it when the audience was clamoring to see it? JP and Ashley's love story is an example of this and the ratings will prove that TPTB made the right decision in showcasing Ashley and JP's true love story , showing us how it overcame the initial turmoil of the Bentley drama, their physical and emotional connection in words and more importantly in deeds. If you believe in fate and that everything happens for a reason ,this season showed us that, JP and Ashley was a truly a heartwarming, truthful and passionate love story and they are meant for each other. My Best wishes to them.

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:15 pm

@Kelad9 wrote:
@agentcurls wrote:
@noobsleuth wrote:
@agentcurls wrote:Fleiss edited it differently because I genuinely think he does care a little about this couple making it. :Nod: skating

I love when you make appearances!! LOL

Can you tell us if you were in tears at all?

sign heart guilty

I think even Fleiss wants more successful relationships now...which is why the editing was the way it was...maybe he realizes editing has caused a rift with previous couples.....this season may very well be a test of of how successful the ratings can be when you don't hide the love story yes

I'd say this season probably passed that ratings test. I don't really care if they've had to manufacture other drama around seeing such an obvious love story. Love story is why I was watching it this season. Smiley
Kelad, I so agree, just give me the happy ending and the real love story and it's a success for me. With the fiasco of dot dot dot in the beginning and the roast, parts of this season, esp. before epi 3, were akin to shoveling thru a big pile of $hit and bingo, there is a huge, perfect, brilliant diamond to make you happy forever. :D

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Kelad9 on Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:51 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Fleiss edited it differently because I genuinely think he does care a little about this couple making it. :Nod: skating

I love when you make appearances!! LOL

Can you tell us if you were in tears at all?

sign heart guilty

I think even Fleiss wants more successful relationships now...which is why the editing was the way it was...maybe he realizes editing has caused a rift with previous couples.....this season may very well be a test of of how successful the ratings can be when you don't hide the love story yes

I'd say this season probably passed that ratings test. I don't really care if they've had to manufacture other drama around seeing such an obvious love story. Love story is why I was watching it this season. Smiley

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by agentcurls on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:all are, even CH :shy:

MF must have been wearing his Brad Pitt mask again. giggling

:missclap: :sexyguy:

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Re: Bachelorette 7 - THE EDIT - Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:56 pm

@agentcurls wrote:
@gurlbrit wrote:
@agentcurls wrote:
wachin4fun wrote:Thanks for info -

Whatever the reason I hope this continues in future seasons! :woah-hoo:

Although the Bentley thing didn't help ratings at the beginning at all. Let that be a lesson no no

True that!!!

I asked earlier and not sure if you saw it or not, can you tell us, was the AFRC a "normal" one or was there anything special?

Very normal.
Aw thanks, I can't wait for next week. thanks for being our 'secret agent', AC. You have made my week and I'm dancing on the clouds til next Monday. :heart:

ETA: JP is hotter in person..omg, no wonder Ashley can't stop looking at him constantly and smiling. Lucky girl.


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