Nick Viall - Bachelorette 11 - *Spoilers - Sleuthing* - Discussion #6

BKay wrote:Another funny thing to me is that Reid basically did the same thing with Jillian at aftr, but I don't remember there being this long-term backlash against him for it. I wasn't an avid follower then so scmiiw.

I think the difference was that Reid was a huge fan favorite and he wasn't explicit about it. He said said "I had a lot of other questions, but it's not right to ask. One of them was about the FS"; I guess there was enough humor and vagueness in his question that he got away with it. Some people actually thought it was regarding Ed's "sex problems" storyline that they had.

Even Jeremy brought it up at the MTA; I forget exactly what he said, but I think it was something along the lines of "I think you took it too far at the FS", but he did later tell RS that they didn't sleep together, so who knows? Jesse's F2 brought it up too by saying "some of the things you did with me were completely inappropriate". I guess the main difference was that Nick was already the villian, so people were much less forgiving, and he was explicit about it.

Thanks Sue and CP. It would be very hard to ever be mad at Reid about anything, ever. To me, he and Nick are very much alike.

Nick seems like he has a wonderful humor and easily laughs at himself and the world. I wish we would've seen more of that part of him. darned editors. I want a gif of him doing the Carlton. so cute.

chasingpavements wrote:snipped
I never believed it either, since the letter just seemed like a recycled storyline from Emily/Arie. And, in that plane video, he specifically said that he knew that Andi would NOT pull a Mesnick, so I don't buy that months later he suddenly would think she was willing to leave Josh for a man she didn't even want to talk to.

If US is saying that they haven't been in contact, that makes me think that he's going to come off as someone who's moved on and past all of this and people who are expecting him to be bitter, angry, and trying to get her back will be disappointed.

chasingpavements wrote:Yup, I think that's why I'm such a Nick fan - I feel like someone has to defend him as he gets called a manipulative, sl*t-shaming, creepy, stalker loser...just because he fell in love and didn't immediately get over that girl, like everyone else does the second they leave filming. Doesn't that make him MORE sincere and genuine in his feelings?

I was listening to the Right Reasons podcast (which I usually find hilarious) and Juliet hates him SO much she said she had to stop watching when he started crying in front of his mom, because that disgusted her so much. Like...what?

CP, thank you. This has been bugging me all evening and I was waiting to get to a computer. Nick except for asking the question, behaved very similarly to Arie, who is still revered by most on this board. Arie got on a plane, flew to Charlotte and went to Emily's house. At the house he thought better, at her house, and left the journal describing how he felt through out the journey and telling of his love for her. A really long love letter.

Now Arie didn't say anything at AFTR, but Jef, love or hate him, had called Arie to let him know what was going on and to offer support. This pains me, but Emily asked Jef to do that. She felt bad for Arie, or just wanted him to back off or whatever, but she made sure to let Arie know that she was with Jef (what ever that meant for them).

Andi knew Nick was trying to reach her and her snotty response was that TPTB would not let them speak off camera. Amazing, but you can find a way to contact anyone in this day and age if you want to. If Andi wanted to avoid an on camera confrontation she could have tried to reach out through Brian or any of the guys who were in contact with both Nick and Josh to let him know she was happy and to back off. Andi did not. It wasn't worth her effort to even try and she came out on AFTR meaner and colder than any bachelorette I have ever seen, yes, worse than even Jen, IMO.

So why is Nick who except for one question, acted pretty similar to Arie such a villain? BTW, that great love that Nick should have recognized? Over and the two people have taken to subtweeting about each other. So obviously, obviously Nick should have realized that Andi and Josh were true love and meant to be forever, Please.

SueSt wrote:

BKay wrote:Another funny thing to me is that Reid basically did the same thing with Jillian at aftr, but I don't remember there being this long-term backlash against him for it. I wasn't an avid follower then so scmiiw.

The difference is that Jill was gracious and didn't deny her feelings or try to minimize Reid's.  
She acknowledged that she loved him, just not as much as Ed.  She cried about it on ATFR.  
(And she let him go at F3 b/c he wasn't willing or ready to verbalize his feelings).
We haven't seen the likes of her since.  

Jillian was compassionate and really wonderful. I wish her friend Kaitlyn would learn some lessons from her.

If Nick chose to walk away and not give Kaitlyn the closure she wanted at FRC, then I say good for him, he tried to give Kaitlyn everything and he owes her nothing. I will actually cheer for Nick if he does just that. Go be with the man you want, enough said.

This year topic: Bette11... Nick 2.0 ... results: "dumped" 1x (Bette10), rejected proposal 1x - SUM:
- edit: villain 1x, lust guy 1x ... lots of passion/intensity.
- "the house" label: cocky/overconfident player a.k.a. salesman 1x, "the other guy" (unknown, abstract) 1x
- SM label: creep/stalker 1x, fameW*/s*** 1x
... bottom line: a perfect target for everything ugly, undesirable and despicable.
- people say that guys don't like him ... but he has male friends, including from both seasons.
- gossip says that he lurks around innocent, young girls who haven't yet realized what a big bad wolf he is
- rumor has it that "fame" has changed him, said by "thy friend". Although I'm wondering who this friend might be, someone who Nick "ignores"? From his IG pics, the old Milwaukee gang is still going strong, the Chi-Force is still cheering together, more new people around, many women under his arm,...
- career: seems nothing much has changed, dream job continues to pay the bills and offers him luxury to travel, party and do charity.
- friends: are loud about their love for Nick.
- love: no eye-candy, no-trophy, no PR-contact.
- money: not an issue for discussion.
- fundraising cause: cancer/military families
- character vs. personality: open to debate.

Seabear wrote:I seriously cannot understand all hatred and venom that is thrown Nicks way.  If the Bachelor franchise is committed to their "anti bullying" campaign they better include Nick in their PSA.

I am so over hearing the poor Andi routine.  Andi vilified JPG after her ego was bruised by him rejecting her after the FS and then continually mocked him for being Latino ie having an accent and saying "eeeeesssss okay." Andi was cold hearted to Nick after she rejected him and yet Nick is the villain?

Kaitlyn totally lead on and appears to have had sex with him numerous times times, asks him to promise to love her forever, reassures his family, lets him get down on one knee and propose and then rejects him. Yet again Nick is the Villain?

Please all you anti Nick people.......educate me!!  I cannot understand the disdain. :no idea:

I don't hesitate to admit that my opinion of Nick was already set in stone from his first go around.  I didn't like him at all during the show and thought he seemed very arrogant and cocky and he just didn't appeal to me, but seemed kind of ....... smarmy maybe for lack of a better word.  (I don't know any of these people, but only know the characters that the show edits them to portray and therefore don't assume that I can tell if someone is sincere and wonderful or a terrible villain.)  But his actions on ATFR cemented my dislike.  I, frankly, can't understand how anyone can defend his comments to Andi.  Overcome with emotion?  I really do not believe that after the interval of time that had elapsed.  I think he was just hurt or angry and wanted to give her a little smackdown.  And it was beyond tacky and classless.  And if he was still so in love with her that he was, in fact, overcome with emotion, then why on earth would he want to embarrass her on national television?  Makes no sense to me.  And my opinion was in no way based on my feelings about Andi.  It has actually been a long, long time since I have had any real favorites on this show.  They are starting to be portrayed as such caricatures, that it is hardly any fun any more.  

He hasn't seemed to be all that bad of a guy on this series, but I still just don't like him.  And it kind of ticks me off that his fans who feel a need to defend him put Kaitlyn on blast for her "misbehavior," when there have been others who  have done much the same things and it was all just kind of ignored.  I really feel there is still a ridiculous double standard about the actions of men and the actions of women and it deeply saddens me.

There is no double standard. Kaitlyn and Shawn deserve one another. End of story.

As much as it is easier to just say this is the same thing all over again it isn't.

Facts:
1) K&N in contact pre-filming, K lip-signal JKL, joke to N about coming on show & said "you're late" when he did, K&N tweets/favs still there to see.
2) Nick on SM while filming. Never happened before on any franchise.
3) Nick 2.0 to F2 again. Never happened before consecutive seasons, same guy, same position, this time with a girl who has said "Nick got a bad edit", "was on her show for the right reasons", took him to F2.

One can speculate that TPTB made her do all these things but that is speculation without proof from either side. Fact is these things happened, and even if she was "made" to do things she certainly wasn't made pre-filming to have a connection with Nick which she admits to again and again.

I will await to see how she responds to Nick on ATFR to determine whether she takes accountability for her own actions and is at least courteous to someone who proposed to her and she rejected and compare her actions to the last lead who did this.

IMHO there is a double standard, that exist for all, everyone digs in sometimes and we might just have to accept that it will continue to exist.
Like there is negative and positive pole ... as some believe there is heaven and hell.
Some people just rub some the "wrong" way ... and sometimes the issue is not about those people at all.

There are people we find sympathy for and can be empathetic towards and those that awake antipathy and nothing can make us understand their side ...
people we like and people we dislike ...
people we adore and people we despise ...
We all have subjective preferences.
And everything is viewed through personal objective (experience, character, personality, culture).

Montaname wrote:
He hasn't seemed to be all that bad of a guy on this series, but I still just don't like him.
 

Kaitlyn's F1 this year already confronted her while on the show, telling her: "Your actions don't match your words".
Interestingly enough, that is exactly, imo, what Nick was saying last year to the lead on ATFR: "Your actions don't match your words".
Nick gets hated for this, Shawn gets justified.
The difference? Only one is F1.

jmo

AllAboutLove wrote:

Montaname wrote:
He hasn't seemed to be all that bad of a guy on this series, but I still just don't like him.
 

Kaitlyn's F1 this year already confronted her while on the show, telling her: "Your actions don't match your words".
Interestingly enough, that is exactly, imo, what Nick was saying last year to the lead on ATFR: "Your actions don't match your words".
Nick gets hated for this, Shawn gets justified.
The difference? Only one is F1.

jmo

I actually thought both were justified.

AllAboutLove wrote:

Montaname wrote:
He hasn't seemed to be all that bad of a guy on this series, but I still just don't like him.
 

Kaitlyn's F1 this year already confronted her while on the show, telling her: "Your actions don't match your words".
Interestingly enough, that is exactly, imo, what Nick was saying last year to the lead on ATFR: "Your actions don't match your words".
Nick gets hated for this, Shawn gets justified.
The difference? Only one is F1.

jmo

I thought he was hated because he told the viewing audience that he and Andi were intimate in the FS and shame her.

Definitely No Double Standard on my part.  I have sons and a daughter.  My daughter is very I am woman hear me roar!!  IMO the lead Bachelor or Bachelorette can still do their job and fulfill the role while still having empathy for the castoffs.  My issue with both Kaitlyn and Andi is that the both seem very MEcentric.  My opinion of both of them is not based on Nick but rather my perceptions of their overall seasons.

I do really appreciate your views and POV even though we disagree. Thanks for the response.