Re: MAFS - Season 4 - Derek Schwartz - Heather Seidel

by jupitercornflakes Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:40 pm

2observe wrote:
jupitercornflakes wrote:

Is it the same photographer for all the seasons? Because that seems a bit strange to me. Also IMO, just because a photographer says to do something doesn't mean you have to do it. IMO Derek is a manipulator along with the producers of the show. IMO, Derek didn't make sense on the balcony at all, he kept using the word compromise incorrectly, since he kept making it about how she should compromise, yet said nothing about what changes he was going to make in return. IMO, there is something shady about the statements he made following Heather's decision. He said something about his co-workers finding out and how it would be embarrassing to go back to the office. However his LinkedIn profile doesn't support that type of work environment. Although it is possible he has not updated it lately. And honestly IMO, the show has a bad track record with some the men that have been cast over the seasons.
Regarding the bolded, isn't that what marriage is about??? Compromise??? I totally agree with Ruqibabe about Derek being the sensible one.

And I have no problem with you thinking that. However I disagree. IMO what Derek was talking about used the word compromise incorrectly. He talked about how she should compromise but never said what he was going to do to on his part. I also question the editing of Heather's confirmation that Derek stopped smoking. IIRC pastor Calvin asked the question and she is just shown saying yes. IMO, it could be edited to look like she was saying yes to the question since she and the pastor were not in the same frame.

by MAFSMinority Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:37 pm

nuts2uiam wrote:
MAFSMinority wrote:I don't understand why people are coming down on her for "checking out" before the alleged smoking even happened.

He did not make a good first impression on her. Whether that was looks, personality, whatever, is irrelevant, really. She met him and decided he wasn't what she expected. That's clear, and I don't think anyone here disputes that. She said the "I do", they had the reception, they went on the honeymoon. When they got to the honeymoon, she didn't appear to have completely checked out. She was concerned about his mention of gambling, but was still making small talk and asking questions. He had an uphill battle though, as he was going to have to win her over since the initial chemistry wasn't there.

So far, there is no difference between these two and, say, Ryan and Jackie from Season 2, or Sam and Neil from Season 3. Guy is hurt that his wife had no initial attraction to him. Sam mentioned she didn't feel attracted, while Jackie couldn't stop talking about how she wasn't attracted the first few weeks. In both cases, the guys kept mostly calm and respectful, and after a few weeks of trying, Sam fell for Neil, and Jackie became a horndog for Ryan.

The difference between those two couples begins when Heather doesn't have that attraction, and Derek chooses to go on the attack instead of hang back and be patient like Ryan and Sam. Then of course there's the smoking issue. "I" am convinced he smoked pot, but am dropping that since no one even tried to dispute the evidence I gave to support it. Therefore, "smoking" in general added to the non-attraction.

Ryan and Neil were able to turn an initial non-attraction into both women wanting them, by recognizing the issue and working on it. I don't see anyone condemning those two women for "checking out" the first week. Heather was no different - until the smoking and the way he spoke to her became a deal breaker. The argument is made that he quit smoking after she asked him, but by then, and by her own account, he had smoked every morning since the day after the wedding, and that's all it took. The way he spoke to her and the signs of jealousy just sealed the deal. It was on him to try and win her over like the other guys, and he failed to do it.

I firmly believe she's getting the raw deal here, but that's the last I'm going to mention it. No one is changing their minds, and with them being done, I don't think anything short of a full confession on what really happened behind the scenes will make a difference in how they're viewed the future.

IMO, she saw him and he turned her off. She seemed to turn off between the wedding and the pictures. Even if she thought his neck kissing were inappropriate, she could have said, "can you please stop that, it is making me uncomfortable". (It is,of course possible that she did say something, but we did not see it). My thinking on this is, that if you are cavalier enough to try this as a marriage method, you have to be cavalier enough to overlook other things too. (Not speaking about the alleged, pot usage.) I have said before that my feeling is that she was turned off almost at the start, and he never had a shot. Then he did little to help himself.

We want the handsome guy and knock out gal to be our partner, but once you get to know someone the inner beauty is what seals the deal. Here, I believe she was turned off by his looks, and she was never able to get to know him. I am not saying that it would have turned out differently because just from the very little we have been shown, she seems a little uptight and straight laced and he seems as loose as a goose and carefree. FWIW, not that I would ever find myself in such a position but I am much more like her than him, given my description. Once again, the "experts failed then miserably.

Maybe I was too wordy, or just generally unclear, but I believe you misunderstood my point.

Did she check out at the altar? Somewhat. She still proceeded as contracted to do though.

EXACTLY the same as Sam and Jackie, who also checked out at the altar and weren't particularly pleasant to Neil and Ryan on the honeymoon either.

The difference is Neil and Ryan showed patience, and slowly won the women over. Derek didn't use patience - he used pressure, and threw in jealousy and temper tantrums for good measure. It is ENTIRELY plausible that had he been much more relaxed and patient, by the end of the six weeks, Heather may have come around in the same way Sam and Jackie did. The smoking pushed her further away, but the way he yelled at her, acted like a jealous 14 year old at the beach, and otherwise vented his frustration was the absolute end of the relationship. I understood why he reacted the way he did, even removing any alleged influence he was under at the time, but IMO, while she maybe should have been more open at the start, he sealed the doom of the marriage with the way he expressed his frustration.

For clarity, this does not mean I am making him out to be the villain, nor her the victim. She needed something beyond the first impression to win her over (fairly or not), and he didn't deliver. It happens. *** IMO***

by Amberish Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:50 pm

For the record I never implied Derek as physically violent.

Just clarification if, in fact, anyone erroneously concluded my mention of inappropriate physical aggressiveness to mean Derek exhibited violent behavior.

by suzq Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:52 am

I don't see either one as a "villain". Do I think that we as viewers are being shown the whole story -- not even close. It didn't work out and was a mis-match from the beginning. The production and the network were not going to admit this, so There are many people especially on SM who are wanting to put all the blame on Heather which doesn't feel totally fair IMO.

by sandyqcar Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:24 am

My whole problem with Derek is that he still has yet to take ANY ownership for ANY of his negative actions. Be it his name calling, his temperature tantrums or the smoking of the unknown substance. All the comments he makes are about Heather. Ie... I wish I had got to see the better side of Heather. I wish Heather had given me a chance. I believe in marriage and this experiment...etc.. (I didn't quote them because they were examples and I'm not sure if they were exact comments)
The guy keeps running his mouth everywhere, yet like a child he can't take any responsibility for any of his bad actions IMO
At least Heather has the dignity to not lash out all over the place about him, which IMO says a lot about the whole situation. IMO She could be out there just the same as him bashing away but honestly I THINK she wouldn't look like an azz like him and probably have some ligit things to says AGAIN ALL MY OPINION

by jupitercornflakes Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:06 am

sandyqcar wrote:My whole problem with Derek is that he still has yet to take ANY ownership for ANY of his negative actions. Be it his name calling, his temperature tantrums or the smoking of the unknown substance. All the comments he makes are about Heather. Ie... I wish I had got to see the better side of Heather. I wish Heather had given me a chance. I believe in marriage and this experiment...etc.. (I didn't quote them because they were examples and I'm not sure if they were exact comments)
The guy keeps running his mouth everywhere, yet like a child he can't take any responsibility for any of his bad actions IMO
At least Heather has the dignity to not lash out all over the place about him, which IMO says a lot about the whole situation. IMO She could be out there just the same as him bashing away but honestly I THINK she wouldn't look like an azz like him and probably have some ligit things to says AGAIN ALL MY OPINION

Agreed. IMO he keeps making comments about her to encourage the hate that has been directed towards her. IMO it says a lot that she has kept relatively quiet and is just living her life. IMO she has showed maturity. And IMO despite all the people saying she will end up alone, I don't see it that way. IMO, even if there were not other things that turned me off of Derek, his attitude and constant lashing out would be enough to not want to be anywhere near him. In my experience people who continue to complain about an ex they no longer have to deal with are just being petty, IMO.

by theKeptGrits Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:22 am

My opinion as an old, long time married woman...

Heather was looking for a wealthy, handsome, conservative man who would put her on a pedestal and lavish her with the lifestyle she aspires to. She apparently did not understand that or communicate it for the "experts " to use.

As for Derek, IMO, he tried and missed. He clearly is a guy's guy, plus a Mama's boy. That's not a horrible thing. IMO it seems like he is set in his ways, and this may have been the wake up call he needed to realize that he needs to work on himself.

I've been married for 33 yrs. we're still learning new things about each other. As people go through life, things happen and each stage brings new lessons and changes. Each person in the marriage has to be willing to accept those about each other unconditionally and adapt. It's not a one sided thing, and it's part of the whole process of life. Especially if the commitment is for life and not just a few weeks or days. Going through the ups and downs of marriage and staying friends takes a strong desire to always be together and not let the relationship die.

by Ruqibabe Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:30 am

Danggggg.... I didn't want to comment but I couldnt resist the temptation.

1. I don't understand why we are assuming Derek hasn't taken ownership of his shortcomings. I have read most of his interviews and I don't get that vibe at all. Why would he be asking for another chance if he hadn't seen the error of his ways? Except there is an interview where he said, I was right throughout this whole process or I didn't learn anything watching back, I don't think it's right to make that assumption IMO.

2. Heather is keeping quiet because She wasn't emotionally invested in the process. Derek has a right to be hurt. He was judged on something he was willing to work on and not given an opportunity to fix things. Becoming a divorcee after 10days of being married should definitely hurt. IMO

3. On Unfiltered, I like that Derek said there was no chance for reconcilation and Heather said maybe they should have moved in together and become friends. They definitely didn't know each other.

by Guest Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:35 am

Heather admitted when talking to Dr Pepper that she had put him in the friend zone on day 2 of their honeymoon. It wouldn't have mattered what Derek tried to do to make it work, Heather had already closed the door.

by jupitercornflakes Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:51 am

Ruqibabe wrote:Danggggg.... I didn't want to comment but I couldnt resist the temptation.

1. I don't understand why we are assuming Derek hasn't taken ownership of his shortcomings. I have read most of his interviews and I don't get that vibe at all. Why would he be asking for another chance if he hadn't seen the error of his ways? Except there is an interview where he said, I was right throughout this whole process or I didn't learn anything watching back, I don't think it's right to make that assumption IMO.

2. Heather is keeping quiet because She wasn't emotionally invested in the process. Derek has a right to be hurt. He was judged on something he was willing to work on and not given an opportunity to fix things. Becoming a divorcee after 10days of being married should definitely hurt. IMO

3. On Unfiltered, I like that Derek said there was no chance for reconcilation and Heather said maybe they should have moved in together and become friends. They definitely didn't know each other.

1. IMO I don't see any evidence that he has taken ownership. And IMO he is talking/tweeting way too much about the whole thing.

2. IMO she is keeping quiet because she has been the target of a lot of harassment. And she has a job and a life. IMO, she doesn't need the show to drag her down anymore than it already has.

3. IMO, of course there is no chance of reconciliation but IMO there was nothing to reconcile about. They didn't like each other and should never have been matched, IMO.

by Jackenzo Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:09 pm

IMO I can't make any conclusions about Heather because almost nothing she has said has been in context - not her communications with the pastor, not her communications with Jamie, nothing. What she has said on her own is that she was not comfortable with Derek and that she was emotionally exhausted. It is not even clear to me that her riding ahead from him in the bike scene wasn't staged. She has been more reticent and he has been more smothering (neck kissing, seeking physicality before she is comfortable, wanting her to talk on his schedule, etc). Also, he has attacked her more - alcoholic, old, not his type (after saying he was attracted to her and proving it). My speculation is that the producers saw the train wreck the second morning and, instead of letting it die a natural death, they milked it for all it is worth. It was all we could discuss until the Nick meltdown. Whenever either one comes on the screen I am out of the room in a millisecond or pushing fast forward. About to do the same with Nick & Sonia.

by Ali_R Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:25 pm

Really the big hullabaloo about Derek being a drug addict is really a curious angle for those of us in 420 friendly states to accept. I'm from Alaska and live in Washington... Please, please, please keep in mind that Dr. Pepper works at UofW - in Seattle! There are pot dispensaries everywhere in urban Seattle. I drive Uber/Lyft and dispensaries are a destination second only to bars.

IMO it wouldn't be a stretch to see Dr. Pepper as a user herself. I'm an old woman (48) married 19 years and I've had my traditional MD that works out of one of the big 3 hospitals in Seattle actually bring up trying marijuana for my chronic health issues. I haven't tried it yet, been there done that back in my youth but it's different now. Yeah there's more potent forms but they've also manipulated it to the point you control what the effect is, i.e. Minimizing the high, the paranoia, maximizing different aspects such as appetite stimulation, nausea suppression, muscle relaxation, sedation level. It isn't all about the high anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if Dr. Pepper used a little to help with the aches and pains that come with years of life, not to mention she's not in the greatest of physical shape.

I've posted in the past pot use is perceived on the same level as wine with dinner in Seattle. Some people are anti alcohol - for themselves and their partner. Some people don't drink but don't mind their partner drinking. It is very much the case regarding pot to Seattleites. I can totally see, IMO, Dr. Pepper having a similar view.

This is all to bring up the point that Derek isn't so terribly flawed. Isn't he also a vet? Heck! That alone I'd give him a pass on a "glass of wine with dinner" or a little cannibus in his downtime

And on THAT note ... Guardian Angel posted a photo of Derek and Sonia from a tweet and it totally made me wonder if TPTBat MAFS are setting us up for the ultimate wife swap? I can't figure out how to repeat the post here...GA can you help me out here? I'm thinking there might be a team Dernia in the future!!!

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