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Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS*

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Post by sbolduc on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:00 am

I noticed Jed’s lacklustre response to Hannah during the episode. I don’t know if that is just Jed he just comes across with such low energy. Where as Hannah is GLOWING in those... she was a smitten kitten.

I did not notice Tyler’s body language so when you compare them it is quite the difference. Tyler who speaks monotone has a much higher energy to him.
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Post by North on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:30 am

@sbolduc wrote:I noticed Jed’s lacklustre response to Hannah during the episode. I don’t know if that is just Jed he just comes across with such low energy. Where as Hannah is GLOWING in those... she was a smitten kitten.

I did not notice Tyler’s body language so when you compare them it is quite the difference. Tyler who speaks monotone has a much higher energy to him.

I am trying to find a clip of Peter when he got the 3-1 group date rose. His reaction was similar to Tyler -- excited, genuine, sweet.

Jed is low energy when he is with Hannah but not with the guys, which is interesting. I think Peter, Tyler, Mike, and Garrett have the same or similar energy/intensity when they are with the guys or Hannah. Maybe even Luke -- he's intense 100% of the time.

I admit that I haven't been a fan of Jed. Didn't like his confession and didn't like their first date. Hannah carried that date, like she carried she conversation in the last episode. IMO she's in love with some idealized version she has created for Jed. So many Jed's. Hannah's Jed. Jed on show. Jed in real life. Jed as a stripper.

Lucas brought up some great body language analysis and that's why I made the clips b/c Jed's reaction to her IFILY was so, so, so obvious during the episode. It was truly an oh @#$% moment. I guess he thought he could drop his IFILY the previous week to secure his placement moving forward but didn't think she'd reciprocate.

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Post by Tiggerlgh on Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:10 pm

I really hope it becomes clearer in the next few weeks why he stayed and didn’t eliminate himself. At this point I don’t see any feelings other than lust from him in these videos imo. Talking about Jed


Team Sluething :detective

Sorry for typos...my iPad likes to think it knows what I want to say.
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Post by Mommyof2 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:54 pm

Jed just seems low-key and maybe a bit quiet, which comes across as aloof or not interested. Reminds me of Lauren Luyendyk during her season. She's just a low-key person too.
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Post by Ash2214 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:06 pm

I think we’ve seen Jed be animated and outgoing with the guys in the house. I think we’ve also seen Jed be animated and outgoing on his social media. He doesn’t seem to act the same way around Hannah. 

I think it’s one of two things. He either wasn’t all that interested in Hannah romantically (at least up until this point in the season) or his lies and deceit were weighing on him. JMO. It’s funny to watch her get giddy over him when they’ve yet to have any sort of serious, get to know each other, type of conversation. I think she fell for the idea of him - hot musician from Nashville (a city she loves) who also appeared to be a good Christian boy. It all reminds me so much of Des. She too fell for the idea of someone.

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Post by North on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:13 pm

@Lucas15 -- can we add all your body language analysis here? Especially of this moment - when Hannah tells Jed she is falling in love. I think you had some really great points about his reaction and classic signs of deflection and deceit.

So while the thread title is called "comparison" - maybe we can go broader to body language analysis too?

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Post by sosleepy on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:33 pm

@Ash2214 wrote:I think we’ve seen Jed be animated and outgoing with the guys in the house. I think we’ve also seen Jed be animated and outgoing on his social media. He doesn’t seem to act the same way around Hannah. 

I think it’s one of two things. He either wasn’t all that interested in Hannah romantically (at least up until this point in the season) or his lies and deceit were weighing on him. JMO. It’s funny to watch her get giddy over him when they’ve yet to have any sort of serious, get to know each other, type of conversation. I think she fell for the idea of him - hot musician from Nashville (a city she loves) who also appeared to be a good Christian boy. It all reminds me so much of Des. She too fell for the idea of someone.

Ugh. This season is so much what would have happened to Des, had Brooks not pulled himself out. Minus the girlfriend on the side, because really, Brooks’ only fault was that he just wasn’t that into Des. So, so much respect to Brooks for being a stand up guy and leaving her a clear path to real love with Chris. More than anything, Jed sucks for this. For taking away this opportunity for her and making whatever path to love with Tyler post show (*if* that is to happen) so much harder for her/them than it had to be.


ETA: also want to say kudos to all of you who can manage to watch closely enough to Jed’s dates to analyze all this body language. It’s interesting for me to read. I can’t watch his dates with her that closely, it all just makes me too uncomfortable to see him with her and see her falling so hard for it. Like legit uncomfortable and I end up like multitasking and not paying that close attention.
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Post by ReneeM on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:56 pm

I don't think Jed is low key or quiet. When I see him with his friends on SM, or the other guys in the house, he's pretty animated imo, I mean this is the guy that poured milk on himself, unprompted on a GD. His career choice, the fact that he stripped part time, him hatching this plan to be on the show and roping his gf into it while cheating on her, not exactly the actions of a low key quiet guy imo.
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Post by Lucas15 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:57 pm

@North wrote:
@Lucas15 wrote:I was asked a couple of days ago to do a sort of body language study of Tyler's first 1-1 date with Hannah. I started by reviewing the date on the ABC streaming site which is my source for all of the screen caps in this post: ABC Streaming site

Initially I struggled how to do this because unlike Jed's last date where there was a lot of apparent deception red flags, there were none in the Tyler date. I finally decided that if I couldn't see anything negative I'd instead look for things that seemed positive. So here goes:

At the beginning of the date, Hannah was very upset from the previous night's "Luke drama" and crying and really not up for a date. They talk and I note Tyler putting his hand on her leg - it strikes me as an attempt to connect with Hannah. His brow furrows indicating concern for Hannah as she is obviously still upset. He puts his arm around her and rubs her back - again connecting but also comforting her. He hugs her and says "I'm here for you". He tells her "Look at me" and strokes her hair:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler110

I always see something like this as akin to certain primate species who groom each other - removing potential harmful parasites from their fur. For humans it reads to me as a sign of caring for the well being of another (hopefully one with no parasites).

He does this again as he asks her "Want some tail?" And no - the double meaning didn't escape me but Hannah is amused for the first time in the date:

 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler210

As he comforts Hannah he kisses her head. IMO this again indicates caring. It's not sexual in any way nor romantic leading to making out - more comforting as you might someone you care about in a time of their sorrow.

 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler310

While I watched the lobster fishing activity there wasn't much to comment on - until over dinner where there's a lot. Walking to dinner they are holding hands (this reads as an attempt to connect / stay connected).

 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler410

Hannah feels she hasn't put her best foot forward in the date and Tyler says "We don't need the best - we need the real Hannah". At dinner Hannah admits she saw Tyler as a little player and that made her want to put her walls up. I really get this from her because Tyler just seems too good to be true (which can easily mean he isn't true) but that's the problem with Tyler - he says all the right things and makes one wonder if maybe he isn't just a player. If there's a reason why Hannah didn't pick him as F1 - this might be it. She asks him what were his intentions coming into this (probably because Jed had been honest already that he did it for his career) and Tyler explains that he almost didn't because of his father's illness and subsequent surgery. He tells her that he and his pops watched The Bachelorette during recovery (pops is a big fan) and his pops had told him to go make the most of the opportunity. He also says that as soon as he saw Hannah he felt something he'd never felt before. Again - a potential player's line but with no evidence of deception. During all of Tyler's explanation he keeps good eye contact with Hannah (potential honesty) and occasionally looks down and to his right. Here's two caps of this:

 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler510
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler610

Eye movements can indicate a lot of things (memory recall, deception, etc) but eyes down and right can be interpreted as someone creating a feeling or sensory memory (Source)- appropriate in this case IMO because he's talking about things he has felt so appropriate to create those feelings as he explains them to Hannah. Hannah reaches for the rose and says "knowing what I'm looking for and how your words and actions align have blown me away and you were exactly what I needed today" and this is Tyler's reaction:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Tyler710

This is MY reaction:
1 - It would be interesting to contrast Tyler's reaction on getting a date rose to Jed's reaction - IMO it's a telling difference. Happy, versus Oh sh!t.
2 - Hannah was blown away by Tyler on the date and I am blown away that Hannah perceives that Tyler's actions and words align because she's seemed oblivious to this with some others where words and actions (or at least body language) are misaligned.
3 - Very little (if any) bad and a lot of good on this date.


@Lucas15 -- come join us in the "Comparison/Body Language" thread that GA just created! Bring it over -- I would but I'm not sure how. This is such good stuff!

So - as requested...

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Post by sosleepy on Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:02 pm

@ReneeM wrote:I don't think Jed is low key or quiet. When I see him with his friends on SM, or the other guys in the house, he's pretty animated imo, I mean this is the guy that poured milk on himself, unprompted on a GD. His career choice, the fact that he stripped part time, him hatching this plan to be on the show and roping his gf into it while cheating on her, not exactly the actions of a low key quiet guy imo.

Heck no. This guy is extroverted AF, imo. His demeanor is jarring with Hannah, because imo he probably has a lot of inner turmoil right now given his real life vs. the show version he’s trying to play. The a$$hole told Hannah he wouldn’t be able to sleep for like 3 nights after her ILY, and I bet that was real... once he realized that probably meant he was the winner. I hope all his lies and behavior kept him up at night.
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Post by Lucas15 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:09 pm

snipped
For purposes of comparison here is what I wrote about Jed. It may take me a while but I'd really like to do screen caps of Jed's date illustrating the description of what I saw - IMO that turned out well for the Tyler date post.

In the process of playing and replaying her conversations with Jed on that date, some other things jumped out at me about Jed's body language. Jed smiles briefly when she says she's falling in love with him but in a blink of the eye the smile disappears. As excited as Hannah is to tell this to Jed he is dead pan to hear it. He stares into his lap (averting his eyes from Hannah) and covers his face (IMO things a liar will often do). He does not look at Hannah for an awkward length of time (almost 15 seconds) and when he does speak to her he tells her “Yeah, I’m falling in love with you,” but he shakes his head as he says this. IMO a liar will often betray themselves when their body doesn't match their words. IMO if he was really falling in love with Hannah he would have nodded his head (as in "yes") rather than shaking it (as in "no"). Then he says “I’m not going to be able to sleep for three days” and nods his head - IMO on this he's being truthful. Hannah takes the rose and Jed grins widely. It's curious that he smiles more to learn that he is getting the rose (and thus advancing to a HTD) than he does when Hannah tells him she's falling in love with him. When she asks him if he will accept the rose he says "Yes" and nods his head - so his body language can match if he's being truthful.

This date is but a snapshot in time with HTD, FD, MTP and LCD yet to come which is way more time to see where things are going than they have had so far, and things could change. But based on this snapshot, I would say that Hannah sees Jed as her F1, and Jed doesn't reciprocate the feelings even though he says some of the "right" words.

EDIT - here's pics of the various points in my post

As she made her admission that she was falling in love with Jed she had a beaming (genuine) smile:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Hanna_10

Jed smiles briefly when she says she's falling in love with him but in a blink of the eye the smile disappears. These two caps are about a second apart:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Jedhea10
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Jedhea11

As excited as Hannah is to tell this to Jed he is dead pan to hear it. He stares into his lap (averting his eyes from Hannah) and covers his face (IMO things a liar will often do):
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Jed_mo10

Hannah takes the rose and Jed grins. It's curious that he smiles more to learn that he is getting the rose (and thus advancing to a HTD) than he does when Hannah tells him she's falling in love with him:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Jed_ge10

Jed leans in and kisses Hannah after she gave him the rose but Jed shows more of a reaction to getting the rose than he showed when she told him she was falling in love with him:
 Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS* - Page 2 Jed_th10


Last edited by Lucas15 on Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : EDIT to add pictures of Jed's date with Hannah)

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Post by North on Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:29 pm

@Lucas15 wrote:snipped
For purposes of comparison here is what I wrote about Jed. It may take me a while but I'd really like to do screen caps of Jed's date illustrating the description of what I saw - IMO that turned out well for the Tyler date post.

I want to do some for Pete too. And probably even Luke -- b/c that guy is fascinating in a wildly grotesque kind of way to me.

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