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Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - Comparisons - *SLEUTHING SPOILERS*

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Post by Doggoneit on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:04 am

@Lucas15 EXACTLY!

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Post by HavaDrPepper on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:32 am

@Just Looking wrote:@Lucas15 It’s sounding more and more like a very manipulated show, which I didnt fully realise until Colton’s season.  It is emotionally destructive IMO

It honestly is amazing that any successful couples come out of the current version of the show.

It was a totally different show when Trista was the lead. They didn't dwell on drama story lines like they do now. And, when you look at it, her season was only 6 weeks long. She eliminated 10 out of 25 guys the first night and 7 on week 2. Hometowns were shown week 4... there had only been 2 weeks of dates before that. Only 3 guys had a 1-on-1 before that... and those 3 happened to be the 3 that got the FSD's as well. She had very little time with Ryan when you look at it. 1 group date, 1 1-on-1, HTD, FSD, MTP and LCD. That's not a whole lot of time. WOW... it really is something that they have been together 16 years.

There was some minor drama in some of the seasons but recently, production has gone overtime in bringing it out. Bentley was drama all on his own. A lot of the other drama in those seasons from 2008 to 2013 were just guys being guys IMO. Casting choices are deliberate (especially Rachel's season) in order to bring the drama. Is it not any coincidence that several girls knew each other on Colton's season. I think not.

Luke P was gonna be problematic with Hannah just because of his beliefs. TPTB hit gold with him though with his interactions with the other guys. I don't think they planned on that but when it happened, they wanted it to continue. I think Luke S ruined their plans for a 2-on-1 showdown with Luke P though. I give him credit for getting out when he did. I'm sure TPTB were not happy about him leaving but they knew that Luke P would continue to rub the other guys the wrong way which gave us the Garrett and Luke showdown.

TPTB are one reason that I like Jordan Rogers. He did not let them get to him about his brother even though they pushed hard to get that whole situation in the show. TPTB didn't like that one darn bit. There is a reason why JoJo and Jordan have distanced themselves from the franchise the last couple of years. They are doing quite well all on their own.

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Post by blueblues on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:16 am

@HavaDrPepper wrote:TPTB are one reason that I like Jordan Rogers.  He did not let them get to him about his brother even though they pushed hard to get that whole situation in the show. TPTB didn't like that one darn bit. There is a reason why JoJo and Jordan have distanced themselves from the franchise the last couple of years.  They are doing quite well all on their own.
He also threatened to leave right before the FRC if he didn’t get to call her parents and ask for their blessing (since he screwed up the first time), and they caved.
It just shows how producers use manipulation rather than force to control the contestants. With enough courage and willpower (or anger), you can have things your way. Colton is of course another example of this.

I hope that Hannah’s fearless SM activity is a sign of her calling the shots now, at least a little bit.

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Post by sbolduc on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:18 am

@Just Looking wrote:@Lucas15 It’s sounding more and more like a very manipulated show, which I didnt fully realise until Colton’s season.  It is emotionally destructive IMO

Yep.

Not sure if this is the right spot for this post so mods please move if necessary. After last episode I keep feeling this season was incredibly manipulated by the producers and they were true puppet masters, not that they aren't in other seasons but this one especially. And they might just pull off an incredible ending. In looking at both Luke and Jed's storylines, I think the producers knew exactly what they were dealing with.

In terms of Luke, as others said they wanted him to make it to FS to get the blow out. But, I am more amazed by the Jed/Tyler storyline. I think the producers knew 100% about Jed and his girlfriend back home. The way that Jed's hometown date was filmed was eery, it was clear everyone (Jed's family) knew what was going on and was confused, the way it was edited and filmed it was almost "too on the nose". If they (TPTB) didn't know there is no way producers filmed that and didn't think "what the f*ck is going on here". As the girls on Here to Make Friends said it almost had a "Get Out" vibe. Where everyone in the main cast knows what is happening but are putting up smoke and mirrors to try and trick the audience but the audience is "kind of" in the know. This isn't to mention the number of times Jed is playing his damn guitar - again too "on the nose", TPTB were building a story arc for Jed and did it through what appears are his own actions on the show.

In contrast with Tyler - you have a guy who on the outset comes across as a cocky, jock, playboy, model. Someone who you aren't sure is ready for marriage. TPTB definitely played into that with Hannah. She has said on multiple occasions she isn't sure he is ready and thinks he might be a player. Vs. Jed who she "trusts", he is soft spoken and comes across much more honest and trustworthy than Tyler on the outset.

The storyline this season IMO is the growth of Hannah B from girl to woman. For her to be able to move past the true toxic relationships (i.e. Luke) and be able to recognize a person beyond their exterior layers (i.e. Tyler). For her to truly choose someone who chooses her "everyday" and chooses the real Hannah. I think TPTB knew about Jed, his GFs and his true reason for going on the show. I think they had a storyline where Jed in reality was everything she thought Tyler was and why she wouldn't pick Tyler. When in reality Tyler was the the teen movie leading man, the Peter Kavinsky character, popular, attractive, smart, kind, honest, charismatic, smooth etc. The one she was afraid to fall for because she didn't fully trust him. If you look at his (Tyler's) story arc he came across cocky on night 1, saying all the right things in episode 2 and 3. But in episode 4 he starts to step up, being a supportive man to Hannah's emotional distress and then continues to by standing up for her to the guys (situations that Hannah has no idea are happening).

In this journey I think TPTB wanted her to choose Jed, even knowing what they know (about Haley, career, Barbie). I think they wanted her to choose him to find all this out. I think they knew that she wouldn't put her guard down with Tyler but if she did she would have been truly torn. They wanted her to know that Jed had a bunch of skeletons, Tyler who you would think would have skeletons had none. Tyler is the guy that should be F1 based on the storyline we are being sold by TPTB as the right person for Hannah through his actions (standing up for her to the guys) and choosing her (saying he wants the real Hannah, never really questioning her choices always saying she is doing what is best for her) etc. etc. With Jed, Hannah will be his #2, his #1 will be his music (per his HTD). With Tyler, Hannah is always #1, he always recognizes she is the lead and he is her supporting cast member (i.e. when he says "this is her journey", "I want to be your arm candy", "she is so strong", "I want that woman [the one that yelled at the guys]")

If Tyler and Hannah end up together I truly think TPTB were trying to make this happen from mid way through the season. The edit and the actions of the contestants and family members this season is way too "on the nose" otherwise.

All IMO.
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Post by Doggoneit on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:56 am


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Post by suzq on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:46 pm

I think they thought that Hannah could be easily manipulated and produced even though she's very real and relatable. She has the background of a "pageant girl" after all.

I also think that Hannah is used to words being the way that people communicate. Maybe this is teaching her how important actions are as well.

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Post by Lucas15 on Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:05 pm

@sbolduc what a wonderful post - I regret I didn't see it sooner and have a few comments to add to it. Let's start here:

@sbolduc wrote:After last episode I keep feeling this season was incredibly manipulated by the producers and they were true puppet masters, not that they aren't in other seasons but this one especially. And they might just pull off an incredible ending. In looking at both Luke and Jed's storylines, I think the producers knew exactly what they were dealing with.

You are not the only person to see this as an incredibly "produced" season - that was my wife's comment as well after watching only the first episode. I think it was the Demi / surveillance van gimmick that started her down that path but it's just gotten deeper and deeper into that rabbit hole. But from a storyline view this is right on point and I agree - this could be an incredible season if it plays out the way I think it's heading.

@sbolduc wrote:The storyline this season IMO is the growth of Hannah B from girl to woman. For her to be able to move past the true toxic relationships (i.e. Luke) and be able to recognize a person beyond their exterior layers (i.e. Tyler).

There's a few things that might be helpful to know about Hannah. There was a Reddit post (so I can't copy and paste it or link to it) that summarized a podcast of Viall Files Episode 23 (that I CAN link to - Source) in which we can learn more about Hannah than anything else I've seen. Let's start with her dating history:

Hannah was attracted in her freshman (high school apparently) year to a guy with a GF, with whom he was on again / off again. He eventually broke off with the GF and started dating Hannah. He played her (a lot) but she fell deeply in love with him. It broke her heart when they broke up. Later in college they started dating again and though he did a lot of crappy things to her he became better over time (he said she made him a better person). She finally broke off with him because she felt she was dragging him at 100MPH and he was only going 25MPH. She started dating another guy even though she was still in love with the first and they even went shopping for engagement rings. He was completely different than the first guy. Hannah had an innocent conversation with the first guy but when she told the second guy about it, he told her it was apparent she still loved the first guy and that he couldn't do it anymore and they broke up. She went back to the first guy, said she still loved him and he played her for 2 days (he already had a new GF) and then they broke up (for the final time). Hannah was devastated and didn't date for a year and a half, which brings us up to her first appearance on Colton's season. As to what she's looking for now - someone that she feels passionate for (like the first guy) but who's ready for that commitment (which the second guy wasn't). She feels she knows what love is and that's what she wants from the show.

So I have the perfect candidate for Miss Hannah - everything she's looking for and probably more - it's Tyler C. She can't have what she's looking for until she conquers her fear of being played and that's the journey she has to make to be able to grow into the love she wants.

@sbolduc wrote:In this journey I think TPTB wanted her to choose Jed, even knowing what they know (about Haley, career, Barbie). I think they wanted her to choose him to find all this out. I think they knew that she wouldn't put her guard down with Tyler but if she did she would have been truly torn. They wanted her to know that Jed had a bunch of skeletons, Tyler who you would think would have skeletons had none.

That's what makes this season so compelling. I've felt for quite some time that production knew all about Jed but also that they pushed Hannah towards him knowing that they had information in their pocket to craft a breakup - any time they wanted to. All it would take was a phone call to People Magazine and give them one name - Haley Stevens. Barbie was a surprise icing on the cake. This is why they said they would be filming after the show's normal ending - the real story this season isn't what happened during normal filming but what would / is happening after the normal ending.

@sbolduc wrote:If Tyler and Hannah end up together I truly think TPTB were trying to make this happen from mid way through the season. The edit and the actions of the contestants and family members this season is way too "on the nose" otherwise.

One thing I've always believed about this show is that they are experts at taking lemons and turning it into lemonade. Well two things actually - nothing is just a coincidence - these guys are good.
JMHO

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Post by alwayscooking on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:07 pm

With regard to this season being heavily produced, I wonder if this has anything to do with Tyler's recent SM silence promoting the show? Maybe Tyler found out some things he's not happy with. Tyler had been posting on IG about his dates, and also tweeting during the episodes, but hasn't posted much in the last couple weeks, which coincides with speculation that he and Hannah may be talking. I'm having flash backs to Colton's season when Colton said "the producer's did him dirty", wondering if something similar happened with Hannah, pushing her towards one person over the other, or full well knowing Jed and his past. I certainly don't put it past producers, and I can see Tyler being the type of person to just say screw this, I don't want to be apart of it any longer..
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Post by Lucas15 on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:57 pm

@alwayscooking wrote:With regard to this season being heavily produced, I wonder if this has anything to do with Tyler's recent SM silence promoting the show?
snipped

IMO it very well could. Let's assume for a minute that Tyler found out that production had their thumb on the scales and because of that she ended up picking Jed, AND that the show knew about Haley and still put their thumb on the scales to favor Jed. If I'm Tyler, I'm pretty p***ed at them for putting her through all that and I'd be a little less of a company man about promoting the show. Maybe a LOT less of a company man.
JMHO

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Post by LaineyG on Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:38 pm

@sbolduc wrote:
@Just Looking wrote:@Lucas15 It’s sounding more and more like a very manipulated show, which I didnt fully realise until Colton’s season.  It is emotionally destructive IMO

Yep.

Not sure if this is the right spot for this post so mods please move if necessary. After last episode I keep feeling this season was incredibly manipulated by the producers and they were true puppet masters, not that they aren't in other seasons but this one especially. And they might just pull off an incredible ending. In looking at both Luke and Jed's storylines, I think the producers knew exactly what they were dealing with.

In terms of Luke, as others said they wanted him to make it to FS to get the blow out. But, I am more amazed by the Jed/Tyler storyline. I think the producers knew 100% about Jed and his girlfriend back home. The way that Jed's hometown date was filmed was eery, it was clear everyone (Jed's family) knew what was going on and was confused, the way it was edited and filmed it was almost "too on the nose". If they (TPTB) didn't know there is no way producers filmed that and didn't think "what the f*ck is going on here". As the girls on Here to Make Friends said it almost had a "Get Out" vibe. Where everyone in the main cast knows what is happening but are putting up smoke and mirrors to try and trick the audience but the audience is "kind of" in the know. This isn't to mention the number of times Jed is playing his damn guitar - again too "on the nose", TPTB were building a story arc for Jed and did it through what appears are his own actions on the show.

In contrast with Tyler - you have a guy who on the outset comes across as a cocky, jock, playboy, model. Someone who you aren't sure is ready for marriage. TPTB definitely played into that with Hannah. She has said on multiple occasions she isn't sure he is ready and thinks he might be a player. Vs. Jed who she "trusts", he is soft spoken and comes across much more honest and trustworthy than Tyler on the outset.

The storyline this season IMO is the growth of Hannah B from girl to woman. For her to be able to move past the true toxic relationships (i.e. Luke) and be able to recognize a person beyond their exterior layers (i.e. Tyler). For her to truly choose someone who chooses her "everyday" and chooses the real Hannah. I think TPTB knew about Jed, his GFs and his true reason for going on the show. I think they had a storyline where Jed in reality was everything she thought Tyler was and why she wouldn't pick Tyler. When in reality Tyler was the the teen movie leading man, the Peter Kavinsky character, popular, attractive, smart, kind, honest, charismatic, smooth etc. The one she was afraid to fall for because she didn't fully trust him. If you look at his (Tyler's) story arc he came across cocky on night 1, saying all the right things in episode 2 and 3. But in episode 4 he starts to step up, being a supportive man to Hannah's emotional distress and then continues to by standing up for her to the guys (situations that Hannah has no idea are happening).

In this journey I think TPTB wanted her to choose Jed, even knowing what they know (about Haley, career, Barbie). I think they wanted her to choose him to find all this out. I think they knew that she wouldn't put her guard down with Tyler but if she did she would have been truly torn. They wanted her to know that Jed had a bunch of skeletons, Tyler who you would think would have skeletons had none. Tyler is the guy that should be F1 based on the storyline we are being sold by TPTB as the right person for Hannah through his actions (standing up for her to the guys) and choosing her (saying he wants the real Hannah, never really questioning her choices always saying she is doing what is best for her) etc. etc. With Jed, Hannah will be his #2, his #1 will be his music (per his HTD). With Tyler, Hannah is always #1, he always recognizes she is the lead and he is her supporting cast member (i.e. when he says "this is her journey", "I want to be your arm candy", "she is so strong", "I want that woman [the one that yelled at the guys]")

If Tyler and Hannah end up together I truly think TPTB were trying to make this happen from mid way through the season. The edit and the actions of the contestants and family members this season is way too "on the nose" otherwise.

All IMO.



:claphands I just had to bump this. Such a great post. I am waiting patiently for the show to catch up to real life and so curious to see how it all ends.

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Post by Jolena on Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:13 am

I honestly believe that production had everything to do with manipulating Hannah and Tyler and pushing Hannah into Jed fully knowing Jed had a GF (especially since People Mag broke the story) . I hope Tyler got to talk to Colton when he was in NYC and I hope Colton clued him in on just how awful TPTB really are and what they are capable of. jmo
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Post by Lucas15 on Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:14 pm

I want to take another stab at an investigation into Hannah's dating history. Here's why I think this is important:

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905).
'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.' (Winston Churchill-1948)
'I never make the same mistake twice. I make it three four times, you know, just to be sure!' (coolfunnyquotes.com)

The last one - though intended to be funny - may be the most on point. IMO we make mistakes because there are things we don't know - about the world, about life, about ourselves - and until we learn them we are going to repeat our mistakes, and learning is often difficult. This is, IMO, true of Hannah and understanding what she may have done wrong in her dating past could shed light on what she may do wrong now. So let's look at a simplified synopsis of her dating past as discussed on Viall Files Episode 23: Perfectly Imperfect with Hannah Brown, Published on Jun 5, 2019 Source

Hannah became very attracted to a guy in her high school freshman Spanish class; he had an on again / off again GF but she told her mother that she was going to marry him. Senior year he started dating Hannah and she fell in love with him immediately but he played her a lot until she finally broke up with him. He broke her heart. They got back together and dated in college (for 3 years). He did a lot of crappy things to her and she did everything she could to make him a better person. Over time he did change, told Hannah "you saved me through college"; she was very in love with him. She loved what he had become but not what she had to go through to get him there. She ultimately broke up with him as she felt like she was trying to drag him at 100MPH and he was only moving at 25MPH. She still loved him though.

Even so she started dating another guy who was completely different from the first guy and was "ready". They talked about going to look for
engagement rings but she happened to have a casual conversation with the first guy. When she told the second guy about that casual conversation he told her he knew she was still in love with the first guy, that he couldn't do "this" anymore and broke up with her. She went to the first guy and told him she still loved him. He played her for about 2 days (he already had a GF when she went to him but she didn't know that) and they broke up (or never reconciled) and that was the end of that relationship. The loss of the first guy devastated Hannah and she didn't date until she appeared on Colton's season.

What is she looking for now from the show experience? She explained the first guy she was so passionate and the second guy - she wasn't there yet. But she says "I knew what love is and I yearned to have that again on this show."

IMO there are some striking parallels between Tyler and guy 1. Both bring out the passion in a relationship that Hannah yearns for. But Tyler also does and says all the right things and that makes him sort of look (to her) like he's playing her just like guy 1 did - and she fears that. Jed checks at least some of her boxes (like guy 2) and seems really "ready" (like guy 2) and if she was ready to go engagement ring shopping with guy 2 (even though she still loved guy 1) why would she not get engaged to Jed (on a show where an engagement is so strongly encouraged it's the closest thing to mandatory)?

I think the show knew exactly what buttons to push and things to whisper in Hannah's ear to make these fears on getting played by Tyler seem real enough to go for the guy she thought looked safe over the guy who could really break her heart. And IMO that's exactly what they did. The irony in all this is that the guy who would break her heart was the one who looked safe and the guy who would protect her heart and give her both the safety and passion that she wanted was the one who scared her the most.
JMHO

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