The Bachelor 20 - Ben Higgins - ATFR - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #3

IMO the show has not shown so much of Lauren and Ben, that this time Ben isn't rewriting history but saying what he actually felt and what happened. All these bts throw back pictures, FIRST KISS!!!, the fun and laughter they had plus the serious talks. Ben's dilemma was only if it was actually too good to be true. IMO his feelings for JoJo made it harder for him to say goodbye to her, not harder to pick Lauren.

Though I see your points, Lucas, if we discredit everything that we see on the edited TV show, then we're sliding down the slope of questioning things said and done with Lauren. Ben said the things he did to Jo with true emotion in his face, voice, and actions.

I guess that I don't look at Ben, Jo, or Lauren as disingenuous people. I saw real feelings in the final two episodes when all three of them were emotionally drained at the hands of one another and production. Of course, with time, space, and real life in front of them, the parties are going to word things in a way that doesn't jeopardize their futures.

As I posted yesterday, he never has diminished his relationship with Jo when he very well could have; it would have made post-show life much easier. I don't really understand the doubting what developed between BenJo even if it was bubble love. I'm not sure what suggesting Jo as someone only out to secure the lead proves. We'd have to wonder the same about Ben when he obviously wasn't into Kaitlyn on her season.

It's in the past now, and I'm glad that all parties have moved forward.  

      ITA, veg!

I guess... I don't even care anymore about what Ben felt or didn't feel for JoJo vs. Lauren. At the end of the day, JoJo and Ben went on a handful of dates over an 8 week period in the bubble. Ben has 4 months exclusively with Lauren IRL over all that now. You can already see Ben and Lauren blending their lives together. Everything I have seen of them indicates they are very serious about each other and its obvious how happy he and Lauren are. JoJo is currently writing her own story. And at the end of the day, she's going to be remembered for whatever happens during her season and with her guy. Her brief entanglement with Ben and Lauren will mostly be a footnote and forgotten, I'm sure. And meanwhile, I really believe Ben and Lauren stand a good chance to become successful marriage #6 from this franchise. And JoJo will join the elite club that includes Ali, Jillian, Trista, etc. with the hope of finding someone really special for herself. No matter the end result of Jo's season, I think she will thrive as The Bachelorette. This role seems much better for her than being Ben's F1, and I bet she thinks so too.

veg_out wrote:Though I see your points, Lucas, if we discredit everything that we see on the edited TV show, then we're sliding down the slope of questioning things said and done with Lauren. Ben said the things he did to Jo with true emotion in his face, voice, and actions.

I guess that I don't look at Ben, Jo, or Lauren as disingenuous people. I saw real feelings in the final two episodes when all three of them were emotionally drained at the hands of one another and production. Of course, with time, space, and real life in front of them, the parties are going to word things in a way that doesn't jeopardize their futures.

As I posted yesterday, he never has diminished his relationship with Jo when he very well could have; it would have made post-show life much easier. I don't really understand the doubting what developed between BenJo even if it was bubble love. I'm not sure what suggesting Jo as someone only out to secure the lead proves. We'd have to wonder the same about Ben when he obviously wasn't into Kaitlyn on her season.

It's in the past now, and I'm glad that all parties have moved forward.  

I couldn't agree with you more. You perfectly summed up my thoughts as well. I have never personally felt the need to discredit everything that happened between the lead and the F2 person because in reality, if I were to blame all of it on the edit, then I would have to question the sincerity of the lead to the F1 as well IMO. Sometimes I think it's pretty straight forward. Ben felt like he fell in love with both JoJo and Lauren, but ultimately he couldn't say goodbye to Lauren.

Ash2214 wrote:

veg_out wrote:Though I see your points, Lucas, if we discredit everything that we see on the edited TV show, then we're sliding down the slope of questioning things said and done with Lauren. Ben said the things he did to Jo with true emotion in his face, voice, and actions.

I guess that I don't look at Ben, Jo, or Lauren as disingenuous people. I saw real feelings in the final two episodes when all three of them were emotionally drained at the hands of one another and production. Of course, with time, space, and real life in front of them, the parties are going to word things in a way that doesn't jeopardize their futures.

As I posted yesterday, he never has diminished his relationship with Jo when he very well could have; it would have made post-show life much easier. I don't really understand the doubting what developed between BenJo even if it was bubble love. I'm not sure what suggesting Jo as someone only out to secure the lead proves. We'd have to wonder the same about Ben when he obviously wasn't into Kaitlyn on her season.

It's in the past now, and I'm glad that all parties have moved forward.  

I couldn't agree with you more. You perfectly summed up my thoughts as well. I have never personally felt the need to discredit everything that happened between the lead and the F2 person because in reality, if I were to blame all of it on the edit, then I would have to question the sincerity of the lead to the F1 as well IMO. Sometimes I think it's pretty straight forward. Ben felt like he fell in love with both JoJo and Lauren, but ultimately he couldn't say goodbye to Lauren.

I'm on the same page. If credit for everything but the F1 "love" story goes to producers, script, auditioning, storyboards etc. I don't think the show would still be capturing the interest of viewers 20 seasons later. I've watched and read from the start, so I'm not blind to how much of the show is produced and manufactured. It's a tv show first. I never doubt or forget that. Every year there are storylines. Every year someone's role ends up as an "audition" when they're picked as next lead. Some more desperately obvious than others that seem to happen more organically.

But I think the storylines usually come from the producers massaging and manipulating what is already there with the actual people involved.

I guess the difference in seasons to me is sometimes TPTB can create a great story from who and what the have to work with - this season is one of those due to Ben, Lauren and Jojo and what they gave them IMO. Other times it seems a struggle to make a story, but to me this season wasn't on of those and that's why I buy into the nice moments and emotion I saw from all three throughout the season to make it a really good one. JMO.

veg_out wrote:Though I see your points, Lucas, if we discredit everything that we see on the edited TV show, then we're sliding down the slope of questioning things said and done with Lauren. Ben said the things he did to Jo with true emotion in his face, voice, and actions.

I guess that I don't look at Ben, Jo, or Lauren as disingenuous people. I saw real feelings in the final two episodes when all three of them were emotionally drained at the hands of one another and production. Of course, with time, space, and real life in front of them, the parties are going to word things in a way that doesn't jeopardize their futures.

As I posted yesterday, he never has diminished his relationship with Jo when he very well could have; it would have made post-show life much easier. I don't really understand the doubting what developed between BenJo even if it was bubble love. I'm not sure what suggesting Jo as someone only out to secure the lead proves. We'd have to wonder the same about Ben when he obviously wasn't into Kaitlyn on her season.

It's in the past now, and I'm glad that all parties have moved forward.  

relaxing wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

veg_out wrote:Though I see your points, Lucas, if we discredit everything that we see on the edited TV show, then we're sliding down the slope of questioning things said and done with Lauren. Ben said the things he did to Jo with true emotion in his face, voice, and actions.

I guess that I don't look at Ben, Jo, or Lauren as disingenuous people. I saw real feelings in the final two episodes when all three of them were emotionally drained at the hands of one another and production. Of course, with time, space, and real life in front of them, the parties are going to word things in a way that doesn't jeopardize their futures.

As I posted yesterday, he never has diminished his relationship with Jo when he very well could have; it would have made post-show life much easier. I don't really understand the doubting what developed between BenJo even if it was bubble love. I'm not sure what suggesting Jo as someone only out to secure the lead proves. We'd have to wonder the same about Ben when he obviously wasn't into Kaitlyn on her season.

It's in the past now, and I'm glad that all parties have moved forward.  

I couldn't agree with you more. You perfectly summed up my thoughts as well. I have never personally felt the need to discredit everything that happened between the lead and the F2 person because in reality, if I were to blame all of it on the edit, then I would have to question the sincerity of the lead to the F1 as well IMO. Sometimes I think it's pretty straight forward. Ben felt like he fell in love with both JoJo and Lauren, but ultimately he couldn't say goodbye to Lauren.

I'm on the same page.  If credit for everything but the F1 "love" story goes to producers, script, auditioning, storyboards etc. I don't think the show would still be capturing the interest of viewers 20 seasons later.  I've watched and read from the start, so I'm not blind to how much of the show is produced and manufactured.  It's a tv show first.  I never doubt or forget that.  Every year there are storylines.  Every year someone's role ends up as an "audition" when they're picked as next lead. Some more desperately obvious than others that seem to happen more organically.  

But I think the storylines usually come from the producers massaging and manipulating what is already there with the actual people involved.  

I guess the difference in seasons to me is sometimes TPTB can create a great story from who and what the have to work with - this season is one of those due to Ben, Lauren and Jojo and what they gave them IMO.  Other times it seems a struggle to make a story, but to me this season wasn't on of those and that's why I buy into the nice moments and emotion I saw from all three throughout the season to make it a really good one. JMO.

While I agree that the producers had a lot to work with this year, I think most of it was a result of Ben and Lauren. I saw lots of emotions from them, not so much from JoJo. Yes, she liked Ben, was attracted to him, but I question just how much she was really in love with him. While I acknowledge her being manipulated and in the bubble, I also take into account that she...through her brother...knew much more how the show worked right from the start. Not to mention, that she herself...and the other women...saw the connection that Ben had with Lauren. She and they commented on it. I just can't reconcile those two things. She is not stupid. She is not going to let herself fall for a guy that she sees so obviously into someone else...no matter what he says. She knows how things work. She was always suspicious of his feelings. I just don't buy the broken hearted F2. I saw more of a woman conscious of the possibility of the next lead staring her in the face. I saw the same thing last season with Ben and Kaitlyn.

^ That's how I saw it.

Well said Sprite. That's how I saw it as well.

Gosh, i fully respect the last 3 posters views, I saw as others have
a different story, I saw Ben/Jo's love story. Yes Jo was hesitant
and rightly so. She saw Ben was totally smitten with Lo and
pulled back. Smart girl with the sixth sense. He liked her thought
fullness and sensuality. Let's face it without Jo we would have
been looking at 2 bowls of farina. I am so looking forward to her

I disagree about Jojo's sixth sense. It was rather the sense that all the last six girls had, Ben was into Lauren the most. Until she says she sees dead people, I'd discount that six sense. As some have come to realize here , farina is not a bad thing where love is concerned . Sometimes it's the bubble love that gives off the vibe of being overly passionate. Jojo is a smart girl and played her cards well and was rewarded for it . Her own gig. In the end, Ben might not have truly been her type. I'm curious who she ends up with. What her type really is.