Bachelor In Paradise - Season 3 - All Episodes - Discussions - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #2

pavalygurl wrote:

Kashathediva wrote:I think Daniel should replace Chris Manson.

or at the very least Sean for this season on After Paradise.

100% this.

I agree with you @mindless. I think Ashley was spoiled as a child and it just never stopped. It seems the world revolves around Ashley, and everyone must conform to her needs. I truly wouldn't be shocked if she'd heard Jared praise Caila and deliberately hung out a few times with her with the express purpose of telling her she shouldn't ever meet Jared. She admitted as much when she said she wasn't worried about any of the other girls, only Caila. She'd spoken to Caila and told her not to go on BIP and that's why she was surprised to see her. She'd thought she got rid of the competition. That isn't the actions of someone sane. She can't keep every woman Jared likes away from him. Those two honestly need to just have a clean break from each other permanently if they ever want real happiness. Their "friendship" seems toxic and very far away from anything I'd call love.

I also don't find Ashley's dramatics the least bit entertaining anymore. I feel like the Bach clique has become more and more self-contained, self-important and arrogant. Someone like Ashley has been rewarded for her horrible actions and she truly believes she can do no wrong. Some of these people need serious help, not another round on BIP. All JMO.

One thing that occurred to me last night is that we never hear conversations of substance on BiP. It's all, "I like you. I am attracted to you. Are you attracted to me? Do you like me? It feels easy to talk to you. Wow, what's going on over there?" [ensuing drama.] At least on the Bachelor/ette regular season shows, you see the couples holding regular conversations at least some of the time about families, jobs, kids, or whatever. It's at least sketched out that they are getting to know each other on a deeper level.

I realize that the show probably wants to maintain personal privacy for the cast members (or doesn't think that we'll find it interesting,) and thus does not film those types of conversations, but it has the effect of making all of the relationships seem rather middle school and shallow.

This comes into play for me when a cast member says, "There is no one that I'm interested in here." And I am curious as to why that is the case. Is there no one s/he is attracted to? No one that s/he has things in common with? I don't get a sense of it because you never really see the process of them getting to know each other anyway. You just have to trust that it's happening.

With Evan, I almost get the feeling that he would fall for the first attractive woman to take an interest in him. He's just so ready. With Carly, you can see her coming to the realization that Evan has a good heart. I have a lesser sense of what is holding Grant and Lace together beyond having similar, wild temperments. And I have no idea what is holding Amanda and Josh together beside sheer attraction for one another.

The thing that enrages me with Ashley I is that if she were a man and Jared were a woman, she would never get away with this obessive behavior. Should I turn a blind eye because she's a girl and she's "entertaining"? I should legit be scared for Jared and any woman he pursues in the future.

As for Ashley I., I see her actions as springing from a deep emotional neediness. At this point in the show, she needs Jared's affections to validate her. Everything she does is driven by this intense need. You can see it in her constant crying. I'm not excusing her so much as understanding why she behaves the way she does. I also think her body has become addicted to the endorphin rush that she gets when she's around Jared or thinking about Jared. She's become like a junkie, looking for her next fix. Except that she's not ingesting any controlled substances, so she can't make the connection.

If you took Jared out of the mix for her, her body would eventually settle down, and she'd get enough peace and distance to eventually figure it out.

I think that Caila handed Ashley pretty well last night, explaining that she changed her mind about what she told Ashely because she met Jared and she liked him. At the same time, I don't think that Caila is quite strong enough to just ignore Ashley's shenanigans. She's giving Ashley more attention than she needs to.

I forget who said it last night on After Paradise, perhaps Sean. I am paraphrasing, but the basic thought was this show is only meant as a train wreck. This is the shark that keeps jumping.
So I don't think the outcome is successful relationships from TPTB's pov.
I seldom watch this show. Usually the best I come away with is the interaction edited with the animals--crabs, parrot, raccoon etc. They seem to get the best edit. JMO

I suspect that off camera, Ashley doesn't act this crazy obsessed, and she is ramping it up somewhat for the show (as TPTB expect/require of her). I believe her when she says that she and Jared developed a good friendship over this past year, and suspect that Jared did actually try to "date" her for a bit in the hope that he would develop romantic feelings for her, but it just didn't happen, so he told her, and Ashley agreed, maybe even insisted that she was fine with them remaining "just friends" as opposed to cutting off all contact. In reality, she probably wasn't really fine with it, but hoped that eventually, she would just wear Jared down, or that like in the romcoms she probably confuses with real life, he would magically realize that Ashley was his "soul mate" all along. Yeah, Jared is naive, a nice guy who probably avoids confrontation as much as possible (I can relate since I am the same way), and yeah, maybe in a little corner of his mind, he's flattered by Ashley's undying devotion, and enjoys having her in his life as a friend, so since she's insisting this is what she wants too, he isn't putting the hammer down with her and severing all ties, but instead is maintaining the friendship, which to him means hanging out together (assuming neither one is dating somebody), meeting the other's family, exchanging gifts for birthdays, etc. Ashley of course sees each of these kindnesses as evidence that he might be weakening and hangs on to the dream. At this point, I can't feel sorry for her, since she is almost 30, this has been going on for over a year, and she has had ample feedback and evidence that things aren't working out for her, yet she continues to turn a blind eye (or milk it for camera time). I actually think she enjoys crying over this, and laps up the sympathy she gets from whatever percentage of the public or BN who takes her side.

@BlackHalo if Ashley were a man, Jared would likely have a restraining order and no-one would be applauding. It's bizarre to me that people view her actions as acceptable or even worse still, worth praising.

Can you imagine if it was reversed and Ashley had mentioned to Jared that she liked a guy from one the Bachelorette seasons, let's say Wells?! Jared then hangs out with Wells a few times and asks him to never meet Ashley or go on BIP because Jared knows Ashley will like Wells and that's not allowed I guess. Wells does go on BIP (because you know, free will) and he ends up getting along with Ashley, only to have Jared come in and throw a huge tantrum crying and yelling that Wells is a "backstabbing wh*re". Everyone then turns on Wells for being fake and a bad friend and Jared walks away like he didn't do anything insane in the first place by expecting that he could control who a "friend" can meet and fall in love with.

I still want to believe that Ashley is being stuffed by loads of money to maintain this weird persona, I saw some of her interviews where she seemed completely normal and had good points. There are people from the nation who seem to get along with her well (I've noticed Jubilee stated on twitter that she's team Ashley and I have a soft spot for Jubes) so I really, really want to think that this is all just fake drama to make interesting television.. no one can't be this delusional and completely close minded, can they? please? all IMO

There are people who are very nice and normal, until they aren't. So, I don't know.
If it was all an act, I think we might have seen more mea culpas last night on AP regarding that OTT behavior. I did not see it. I saw lots of yes, buts and little owning up to childish behavior.
She appears to be a very loyal, devote friend to the point of hysteria, IMO. This maybe why she is popular with others.

Listening Caila's interview, mentioning how Ashley has been "in love" with Jared for a year and how Nick was telling her for months what we heard him say last night and that unfortunately the cord was never cut before, so it happened at this stage and it was dramatic for her (A.I.) ... I tend to believe the girl really wasn't acting, maybe over-dramatizing it yes, like most of her cries that to me are by now forced, knowing the reaction she gets after from the public ... but that she seriously was thinking what she said ... and that's as disturbing as to think it's an act of "desperation for fame" on the expense of dignity and self-respect.

jojo47 wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote: Daniel

He's a highlight for me every episode!

I only watched because of him. I cannot stand that host, whatever her name is.

KB_Mom wrote:hmmm... is CH miffed he's not hosting AP?

Chris Harrison‏ @chrisbharrison
Very sorry but trust me, wasn't my call RT @debivino1961: @chrisbharrison @Deelaney31 why are you not on the after show this year???

THIS is very interesting. Now I have to remember why I think this is interesting. There is a reason awhile back now, that I thought he was being snubbed. Oh I remember, someone asked why they didn't show much of him during Ben's or JoJo's? season, and he said it wasn't his call.

CH flew to Denver to meet with Ben and Lauren. I can't see why he couldn't be at AP even if he is filming Millionaire in Vegas.