Bachelor In Paradise - Season 3 - All Episodes - Discussions - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #2

It would've been actually an amazing trick had she just disappeared.

I was thinking more along the lines of throwing her into an active volcano.

sosleepy wrote:If Ashley was really, REALLY in love with Jared, she'd set him free. She'd want him to be happy. I loved Nick giving it to her straight.

I haven't watched last night's episode yet, but I totally agree with this statement. AI is in love with the idea of being in love with a man like Jared. She has refused to see reality over all this time. Jared has been her friend (and perhaps a bit more if her stories are true), but from everything I've seen, he has no interest in being in a relationship with her. The fact that AI is still a virgin speaks volumes about Jared's interest in her. I'm sure she was willing to give him her V-card.  Thank God the man has self-control. 

I do think that he has given her mixed messages, and he is too nice to her. She has been holding out hope. With someone like her, you need to be blunt.  If he wants to have a shot with Caila, now is the time for him to be blunt.  He will have to choose Caila over AI. That's sad, but AI has forced him to do that.  If she really loved him (and not just the idea of him) or if she really cared about him as a friend, she'd want him to be happy. I think about the way that Robby handled his rejection by Jojo. THAT is how you handle a situation where you are in love with somebody who is in love with another.  You are devastated inside for yourself, but you still want the other person to be happy, even if that's not with you.

AI has no authority or right to dictate to Caila is she can or cannot go onto BIP and meet Jared.  That is ridiculous. What kind of a friend is that? Everything in her life revolves around this unhealthy possessiveness she has over Jared. It is asinine!  My advice to Jared is to speak frankly to AI about his lack of romantic interest in her, and then walk away from their so-called friendship. AI is not capable of being his friend at this time. She is still obsessed with making him her own.  Unfortunately, I don't think he can keep AI as a friend because she will always misconstrue his kindness and caring for something more.

Now that would've made this show worth watching! The sad thing is that AshleyI actually does leave BIP next week... for like 3 seconds because they let her come back. The evil was almost defeated. Almost.

@MiaHawk I agree with your post, now is the time for Jared to be completely blunt with AshleyI. No other way of being with her will ever let either of them move on. It would be the best outcome for everyone involved. And I really do hope more people realize how ridiculous it was of AshleyI to even ask Caila (someone she'd only hung out with a few times) to not meet Jared or go on BIP. It was a manipulative request designed to eliminate what Ashley considered her competition. The people attacking Caila are claiming the moral high ground, but I find Ashley's actions towards her supposed BFF far more egregious. All JMO.

The whole notion that you will go on BiP and make promises to others about who you will or will not date is ludicrous. It's a dating show, for crying out loud. That's the whole point of why you are there. The only thing I wish Caila has said to Ashley is, "I understand that you like Jared and want to be a couple, but I can't make any promises to you in that regard." Then let the chips fall where they may with regard to their "friendship." But Caila has every right to go out with Jared or anyone else there, given the opportunity.

Re Jared and Ashley - When I originally saw the previews and such I thought that this was created for drama moment - that Ashley really didn't have continued feelings. However based on what happened last night and the Caila interview with Huffpost I do believe Ashley was still harbouring these feelings and I do believe them to be real.

I may be in the minority but I did "feel" for Ashley last night. Yes she may be a drama queen and yes she is a little delusional, and no she should not have called Caila what she called her. However I feel for her as I was that girl .. where you have a super close male friend, one that is your partner in every way except physical (or not 100% physical) that sometimes treats you more and you want more but they never do. In my situation anyone who didn't know us thought we were a couple, I mean everyone. To the point where I found out later, guys who wanted to pursue me didn't because they thought we were dating. His grandmother even thought we were dating.

Eventually I had to completely cut him out of my life to move on. He was not a bad person (a great person actually) and I don't think he was intentionally "leading" me on but given the dynamics of our relationship that is what had to happen. I remember it was almost a year of not talking when he realized he had feelings for me. The last time we really spoke he invited me to a NYE party 12 years ago and I remember I originally said yes and then cancelled right before. I remember telling my best friend I am closing the door to him - after the time apart - I was fully ready to move on. Its funny how life works because that night (NYE) I met my husband.

A little OT but back to BIP - I think Ashley and Jared need to cut ties from each other. Otherwise it will inhibit either's ability to move on and develop strong relationships with others.

Yes, I think the only way either of them will be able move forward in life is if they just cut ties. If they don't, any significant other in their lives is going be hurt and that's not fair to them either.

AshleyI is 28 now, and unfortunately at a time when she should be growing she's kind of regressed. I think the drama with Jared has become a key component in her life. The fact that people praise her for her dramatics seems to just make her even more delusional. I can understand the emotions when you have unrequited love, but I don't have any sympathy for the way she's chosen to behave. When I step back from the situation it truly looks like she knew from the beginning that Jared liked Caila the most and set out to make sure they never met. She even admitted to Nick that she didn't think anyone else was a threat to her except Caila. So AshleyI hangs out with Caila a few times and during one of those meet ups she tells Caila that she should not meet Jared or go on BIP because he will like her. Now at this point in the story it's so clear to me who the person in the wrong is, but it's fascinating to see that it's being flipped to make Caila seem like a bad friend. #girlcode  

IMO AshleyI befriended someone who she viewed as her only competition for Jared and manipulated her to promise she won't go on BIP. She expected her plan to work, and it's kind of beautiful that it didn't. Now we're seeing her try to come out on top by trashing Caila's reputation, but I feel like people who can see how truly manipulative AshleyI was towards Caila in the first place won't fall for it. "You can be my friend, but just so you know you need to promise you'll never meet Jared or go on BIP, okay."      All JMO.

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/bachelor-paradise-recap-week-3-000000104.html

sbolduc wrote:Re Jared and Ashley - When I originally saw the previews and such I thought that this was created for drama moment - that Ashley really didn't have continued feelings. However based on what happened last night and the Caila interview with Huffpost I do believe Ashley was still harbouring these feelings and I do believe them to be real.

I may be in the minority but I did "feel" for Ashley last night. Yes she may be a drama queen and yes she is a little delusional, and no she should not have called Caila what she called her. However I feel for her as I was that girl .. where you have a super close male friend, one that is your partner in every way except physical (or not 100% physical) that sometimes treats you more and you want more but they never do. In my situation anyone who didn't know us thought we were a couple, I mean everyone. To the point where I found out later, guys who wanted to pursue me didn't because they thought we were dating. His grandmother even thought we were dating.

Eventually I had to completely cut him out of my life to move on. He was not a bad person (a great person actually) and I don't think he was intentionally "leading" me on but given the dynamics of our relationship that is what had to happen. I remember it was almost a year of not talking when he realized he had feelings for me. The last time we really spoke he invited me to a NYE party 12 years ago and I remember I originally said yes and then cancelled right before. I remember telling my best friend I am closing the door to him - after the time apart - I was fully ready to move on. Its funny how life works because that night (NYE) I met my husband.

A little OT but back to BIP - I think Ashley and Jared need to cut ties from each other. Otherwise it will inhibit either's ability to move on and develop strong relationships with others.

Thanks for sharing your story.  I totally agree that Jared and AI need to cut ties completely.  It is the kind of relationship that can never (IMO) be a healthy friendship. One person wants more than friendship and the other does not.  After a period of mourning, AI will be free from her pull towards Jared and she will be opened up to seeing other options for herself. The whole dynamic reminds of that scene in When Harry Met Sally about guys and girls not being able to be friends because the (desire for) sex always gets in the way.

I am not sure what is so great about Jared that Ashley I is this obsessed with him. I actually think her infatuation (as Nick so aptly called it) makes Jared look bad because he doesn't seem particularly appealing or sweet or much of anything. Maybe it's because we don't get to see his actions, but I'm trying to think of sonething compelling or interesting that he's done since offer Kaitlyn his coat as she was sending him home.

All he has done to this point is go out with people half-heartedly and break things off. Caila could have been different, but honestly they both bore me so much, I don't care that everyone can tell he is finally awake and has a pulse. I think this is why I prefer Ashley I in all this, even now when her crying counter is beyond cliche - she has a pulse at least and she has feelings and desires and dreams and expresses them.

I know Caila has a lot of fans here, but I don't see her as particularly appealing.  She smiles a lot, has nice hair and seems intelligent, but anyone who seems so obviously concerned with how she is coming across to others is IMO putting her focus on the wrong things. She is at least self-aware enough to know she has her guard up, but to me, that same trait makes her seem to me like someone who would bring brownies to a neighbor with the secret agenda of having a chat about standards because the grass in their front yard was just a little too long.

On the other hand, I would rather talk to someone like Daniel than Caila because she seems too afraid of being disliked or perceived poorly to actually do or say anything worth doing or saying. So I guess what I mean is that I perceive her as judgmental based on her own standards of appearance/behavior.

That said, Daniel got a little gross on the episide and especially on AP in regards to Ashley's virginity and Canadian bacon. Michelle was not really helping with that either and Sean, who I used to like more, can't seem to formulate enough of an opinion to jump in.  He seems a little too concerned with himself lately. I don't remember him being this big of a narcissist and think it is because he has been in the spotlight for too long, like a rotten salad at a buffet.

I remember his season as TB. It's kind of sad when Sean Lowe was seen positively for his born-again virginity but in Ashley I it is a a big joke and it seems like we have to make infinite smaller jokes about "holes" and "blood" and deflowering her, etc. It is just gross at that point and I think it means we as a society hate women.

Great post Pandora.

Pandora wrote:I know Caila has a lot of fans here, but I don't see her as particularly appealing.  She smiles a lot, has nice hair and seems intelligent, but anyone who seems so obviously concerned with how she is coming across to others is IMO putting her focus on the wrong things. She is at least self-aware enough to know she has her guard up, but to me, that same trait makes her seem to me like someone who would bring brownies to a neighbor with the secret agenda of having a chat about standards because the grass in their front yard was just a little too long.

On the other hand, I would rather talk to someone like Daniel than Caila because she seems too afraid of being disliked or perceived poorly to actually do or say anything worth doing or saying. So I guess what I mean is that I perceive her as judgmental based on her own standards of appearance/behavior.

I agree to some extent with your entire post, good one. I'm just discovering Caila, so not a fan, but I would go and say that I don't see her being afraid of being disliked or perceived poorly (unlike Jared) ... actually she expresses her thoughts without reservations of how will she be perceived (at least from what I've seen so far on BIP and in the interviews later) ... but she does care about the reaction of people she is talking to, so she tries to be polite and respectful (and positive or encouraging) ... and although she speaks her mind, she doesn't throw "her truth" out for everyone to listen ... it seems to me she only says what she believes makes a difference and the rest she keeps to herself. Which is not the same as being afraid to speak own mind. It's only more self-aware and also aware of the effect of words/thought and what a person puts out into this world.

I sure have my own opinions of certain people on this show, but I simply choose not to express them, because what would my opinion change ... especially since they aren't my concern.

I do agree that "the fans" or the supporters are more concerned about the perception/understanding of the contestant who they prefer ... and I can totally understand that, since I've been on that "train of thoughts" myself with Nick since his plane video ... 2 years later ... some people are finally seeing what I saw in him ... but in retrospect, it was a waste of time when I "defended" him or tried to explain his words/actions (offer the positive interpretation) ... and now I only want to "defend" the positivity ... because people for some reason often prefer to see the negative side (it is a choice). That said, the negative must though be addressed at times too, because life is not peachy perfect and we all should strive to improve.

on that note:

sbolduc wrote:Re Jared and Ashley - When I originally saw the previews and such I thought that this was created for drama moment - that Ashley really didn't have continued feelings. However based on what happened last night and the Caila interview with Huffpost I do believe Ashley was still harbouring these feelings and I do believe them to be real.

I may be in the minority but I did "feel" for Ashley last night. Yes she may be a drama queen and yes she is a little delusional, and no she should not have called Caila what she called her. However I feel for her as I was that girl ..

I was that girl too ... so yes, I do "feel" for her. But I also believe she missed the years of development in maturity ... it has nothing to do with being a virgin or not having any serious relationship before, because I was that girl too ... my "blossoming" came pretty late in my 20s ... but still I didn't behave that way. She not only behaves poorly ... by depreciating herself first and also not respecting the other (Jared, Caila, Nick, ...) ... because I don't think she understands what her actions actually mean ... and unfortunately I believe that comes from her upbringing (not judging her parents, but she has some principles/values confused) or the way she perceives the relationships in general (family, friends, lovers) ... so there are issues she should really work on IF she wants to have a healthy relationship and satisfying/fulfilling life ... or she can continue on that path and she will be forever "childish".