Nick Viall & Vanessa Grimaldi - Bachelor 21 - Discussion - #2

tealeafs wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I hope he never says anything more about this season. He has given more than enough praise, and got nothing but negative SM from the squad, including making fun of his father and Rachel herself admitting she doesn't like Vanessa, on IG story. Along with comments, his loss, and purposely omitting Vanessa in her well wishes for Nick.

As the new bachelorette, I think Rachel was justified in saying "his loss". Her season is not about her heartbreak over Nick, as Jojo's was about Ben. Her "too bad, I'm moving on" attitude is what is refreshing about her season, imo. Vanessa and Rachel seem to be clear on how they feel about each other, I don't think it's fair to villainize Rachel and put Vanessa up on a pedestal.

Full disclaimer: I like both Rachel and Vanessa, and maybe prefer one over the other. But by a mile, they were both my favourites from Nick's season.

I find that there are fans that put Vanessa up on a pedestal; likewise, there are fans that put Rachel up on a pedestal. Both cases, IMO, don't appeal to me because I don't see either of these women as perfect and infallible no matter how great they are. I do have to say that for the most part and especially outside this forum, there's been more villainizing of Vanessa than there has been of Rachel. There was an interview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmzf60vHheI) recently of a reporter asking Vanessa about her thoughts on Rachel's season, and the YouTube comments largely favoured Rachel even though Vanessa only said complimentary things about her. From what I've observed, whenever these two women are ever brought up in a discussion, the majority seem to actually villainize Vanessa to prop up Rachel.

All that said, I don't think it should be a competition of who's getting more negativity, and I don't think it's fair to compare both women as they're both different and respectable in their own right. It's just interesting how the "general consensus" kind of shifts depending on where the discussion is taking place or even depending on one's perception. ((I think when we're fans of someone, we tend to hone in on the negative because those tend to elicit more discussion)).

tealeafs wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I hope he never says anything more about this season. He has given more than enough praise, and got nothing but negative SM from the squad, including making fun of his father and Rachel herself admitting she doesn't like Vanessa, on IG story. Along with comments, his loss, and purposely omitting Vanessa in her well wishes for Nick.

As the new bachelorette, I think Rachel was justified in saying "his loss". Her season is not about her heartbreak over Nick, as Jojo's was about Ben. Her "too bad, I'm moving on" attitude is what is refreshing about her season, imo. Vanessa and Rachel seem to be clear on how they feel about each other, I don't think it's fair to villainize Rachel and put Vanessa up on a pedestal.

That's your opinion. Mine is different. I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa, they have handled themselves IMO in a tremendously mature manner, both of them. Neither one were rude in media rounds, both were always complimentary, regardless of what happened in the house. That's the way I would roll, the other way, no so much. That might be refreshing to you, to me it's rude to treat someone like that. Lets just hope the next bachelor if he comes from her season, doesn't dish out the same line to her. The good thing is she can be discussed in the many threads for her season. N&V certainly have moved on and are doing exactly what they said they want to do and I doubt they are concerned about something that happened 6 months ago.

I don't put anyone on a pedestal, and if I did, that's my right to do so on this forum.

IrelandRose wrote:I've seen it referenced a here a few times, but as I didn't watch the season and have only been following these two recently, I don't know specifics. What is the story with Vanessa and the so-called 'squad'?

In a nutshell IMO....  Vanessa   the Squad  

JMO

GuardianAngel wrote:

tealeafs wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:I hope he never says anything more about this season. He has given more than enough praise, and got nothing but negative SM from the squad, including making fun of his father and Rachel herself admitting she doesn't like Vanessa, on IG story. Along with comments, his loss, and purposely omitting Vanessa in her well wishes for Nick.

As the new bachelorette, I think Rachel was justified in saying "his loss". Her season is not about her heartbreak over Nick, as Jojo's was about Ben. Her "too bad, I'm moving on" attitude is what is refreshing about her season, imo. Vanessa and Rachel seem to be clear on how they feel about each other, I don't think it's fair to villainize Rachel and put Vanessa up on a pedestal.

That's your opinion. Mine is different. I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa, they have handled themselves IMO in a tremendously mature manner, both of them. Neither one were rude in media rounds, both were always complimentary, regardless of what happened in the house. That's the way I would roll, the other way, no so much. That might be refreshing to you, to me it's rude to treat someone like that. Lets just hope the next bachelor if he comes from her season, doesn't dish out the same line to her. The good thing is she can be discussed in the many threads for her season. N&V certainly have moved on and are doing exactly what they said they want to do and I doubt they are concerned about something that happened 6 months ago.

I don't put anyone on a pedestal, and if I did, that's my right to do so on this forum.

GA, I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa too. The structure of the show is set up to produce winners and losers. I have always thought given all the times he 'lost' that Nick was truly a gentleman, the kindest man. So many times he could have been nasty, so many. Circumstances would almost have excused him, but instead he chose grace over nastiness. Rudeness is never 'justified'. It always reflects poorly on the perpetrator.

SueSt wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

tealeafs wrote:

As the new bachelorette, I think Rachel was justified in saying "his loss". Her season is not about her heartbreak over Nick, as Jojo's was about Ben. Her "too bad, I'm moving on" attitude is what is refreshing about her season, imo. Vanessa and Rachel seem to be clear on how they feel about each other, I don't think it's fair to villainize Rachel and put Vanessa up on a pedestal.

That's your opinion. Mine is different. I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa, they have handled themselves IMO in a tremendously mature manner, both of them. Neither one were rude in media rounds, both were always complimentary, regardless of what happened in the house. That's the way I would roll, the other way, no so much. That might be refreshing to you, to me it's rude to treat someone like that. Lets just hope the next bachelor if he comes from her season, doesn't dish out the same line to her. The good thing is she can be discussed in the many threads for her season. N&V certainly have moved on and are doing exactly what they said they want to do and I doubt they are concerned about something that happened 6 months ago.

I don't put anyone on a pedestal, and if I did, that's my right to do so on this forum.

GA, I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa too. The structure of the show is set up to produce winners and losers. I have always thought given all the times he 'lost' that Nick was truly a gentleman, the kindest man. So many times he could have been nasty, so many. Circumstances would almost have excused him, but instead he chose grace over nastiness. Rudeness is never 'justified'. It always reflects poorly on the perpetrator.

Rudeness is never justified, and grace is better than nastiness - but then what about how nasty Nick was coming out of being rejected by Andi? I think he and Vanessa have had their fair share of putting nastiness into the world. I am not putting down their relationship, **edited***

tealeafs wrote:

SueSt wrote:GA, I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa too. The structure of the show is set up to produce winners and losers. I have always thought given all the times he 'lost' that Nick was truly a gentleman, the kindest man. So many times he could have been nasty, so many. Circumstances would almost have excused him, but instead he chose grace over nastiness. Rudeness is never 'justified'. It always reflects poorly on the perpetrator.

Rudeness is never justified, and grace is better than nastiness - but then what about how nasty Nick was coming out of being rejected by Andi? I think he and Vanessa have had their fair share of putting nastiness into the world. I am not putting down their relationship, **Edited**

Even though I never thought what Nick asked Andi was 'nasty' per se, I agree he shouldn't have done it publicly and should have bitten his tongue no matter how cold she was being towards him IMO. However, I can't remember even one instance where Vanessa has said anything nasty towards anyone publicly inspite of many people taking repeated shots at her. FTR I don't give a eff what RS or the squad says. If there is proof, I would definitely be interested.

All JMO

And Nick was given plenty of grief for his actions on Andi's AFTR. He also explained himself fully and has discussed it with Andi herself. So while I am not a Nick fan, holding that action against him, when it was in the minority, not the majority is a choice that I do not wish to make. JMO.

tealeafs wrote:

SueSt wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

That's your opinion. Mine is different. I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa, they have handled themselves IMO in a tremendously mature manner, both of them. Neither one were rude in media rounds, both were always complimentary, regardless of what happened in the house. That's the way I would roll, the other way, no so much. That might be refreshing to you, to me it's rude to treat someone like that. Lets just hope the next bachelor if he comes from her season, doesn't dish out the same line to her. The good thing is she can be discussed in the many threads for her season. N&V certainly have moved on and are doing exactly what they said they want to do and I doubt they are concerned about something that happened 6 months ago.

I don't put anyone on a pedestal, and if I did, that's my right to do so on this forum.

GA, I'm happy for Nick and Vanessa too. The structure of the show is set up to produce winners and losers. I have always thought given all the times he 'lost' that Nick was truly a gentleman, the kindest man. So many times he could have been nasty, so many. Circumstances would almost have excused him, but instead he chose grace over nastiness. Rudeness is never 'justified'. It always reflects poorly on the perpetrator.

Rudeness is never justified, and grace is better than nastiness - but then what about how nasty Nick was coming out of being rejected by Andi? I think he and Vanessa have had their fair share of putting nastiness into the world. I am not putting down their relationship, **edited***

What nastiness has Vanessa put into the world?

Nick has apologised multiple times about putting Andi on the blast, he's said many times he regrets doing it, apologised for it, time and time again.

Jmo

Every time when it's brought up, Nick always said he regretted asking the question. He apologized to Andi directly and she forgave him. I believe he's genuinely sorry and I don't know why he would still be criticized for it after three years. I mean I will be the first one to admit I have said things I wish I could have taken it back, not much unlike him.
As for Vanessa, I would like to know what nasty things Vanessa has done or said after the show. I don't judge what they do or say on the show because none of us know exactly what happen and it's a very unusual environment.
All Jmo.

Nick has apologized in person privately and and in person in public too and A has by all accounts forgiven him and they all have moved on. That is all I can ask for from anyone in this world, that when they hurt others (as we all will do and have done) that they apologize and and to me a true apology is not repeating the behavior. That's what it means to be really sorry. Because anyone can say sorry and still do the same thing again but Nick never did. That to me says it all.

Back to Nick and Vanessa. They are living their lives together and from following them there has been nothing that they have done that I would equate to "nastiness". Nastiness is what I see posted by SM comments that wish Nick gets cancer and his family too and dies. Nastiness is SM comments to Vanessa about her brother and making fun of him and mocking students that she works with who have special needs. That's nastiness.

jmo

I don't judge what they do or say on the show because none of us know exactly what happen and it's a very unusual environment.

All we've heard is hearsay from Reality Steve about how awful Vanessa supposedly was and a lot of shade thrown at her by others. But Vanessa has not publicly said one negative thing about anyone. Even after Corinne just randomly decided to throw shade at her and Nick's relationship and then proceed to publicly discuss Vanessa's sending her a private text, wanting to address her issue with what Corinne said as an adult, Vanessa still, when asked to describe Corinne in one word in some interview, just politely said, "entertaining".

Many others like Kristina have liked a bunch of social media comments throwing shade at Vanessa and Vanessa has never reciprocated. Alexis was all cackling about how much they don't like Vanessa (presumably the squad) but then was quick to comment on some of Vanessa's Instagram posts about how gorgeous and perfect Vanessa is.

The only thing Vanessa has done since the show ended is be with her fiance and work on a charity to help others. But other people love to drag her name, especially whenever the slightest negative comment is made about Rachel. Because Reality Steve and others said she was supposedly fake so it must be a fact.

Well, since we're talking about nasty...Nick has been less than kind talking about a current Ette's fiancé (who he had never met, btw) calling him an 'egotistical prick' in a podcast. And that is just one example, there are quite a few more examples where he has been mean to that fiancé. I don't recall an apology even once. Thankfully the Ette has been gracious not to throw it back into his face.