Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - Episode 9 - July 24 - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

coolangel wrote:Peter signed up for the show knowing what it entails - He was nominated once, he applied again himself a year later. Sharleen pointed it out that in 12 seasons of the Bachelorette, there has never been a non-proposal at the end (Source). I don't see why Rachel should get hate for something that has been the norm on this show. Should she aim to be the first Bachelorette who doesn't get a proposal from her F1?  

As realistic as Peter's thoughts may be about an engagement after a few weeks, this is the format of the show IMO and he is not the lead yet. He can chose to forgo the engagement when he is the lead but this was Rachel's season and if he couldn't give her what she wanted or even try for a compromise, he should have done the right thing and walked away like Brooks IMO. This whole season seems like an audition for his Bachelor gig.

All JMO 

I couldn't agree more with your post @coolangel.

And let me be clear from the jump that the bolded is what really gets to me. First black Bachelorette and Peter is essentially saying, "Look, EVERY SINGLE BACHELORETTE before you got a proposal but I am not sure I want to give you one".

Sorry I read that and I am not okay with it. It comes across to me like Rachel is less deserving of what every single other Bachelorette was given. Like she deserves LESS than them? Hell nah.

And this coming from Peter who said that Bryan, who wants to give his all and propose to Rach, doesn't deserve her?! Please. 

Peter needs to take several seats imo because Rachel deserves a man who, at the very least, she won't need to try convince for her to be treated the same way as every single previous Bachelorette - especially since she has made it abundantly clear she wants a proposal. That's why she is on the show.

It's why imo Rachel deserves a man who sees her worth and would be willing to take that leap of faith for and with her. Anything else just makes me think Peter is saying with his actions that Rachel isn't worth doing that for. Which I find particularly galling because to me it's like Peter is wanting Rachel to lower her expectations of HIM rather than Peter rise to HER expectations.

And I've seen this with Peter throughout the season... where it's like he wants to be in the power position. Like it's all about him and she has to do the work and put in more of the effort emotionally. Even when it comes to the physical, from when Rachel had to ask Peter to kiss her. No woman should have to do that! 

Rachel deserves a man whom she doesn't need to ask to kiss her. She deserves a man who will chase her hard no matter what and let her know she is worth it - even if he doesn't "win" she is worth giving his all for. A man whom Rachel should not have to in any way shape or form expect less than other leads before her. That Peter seems to expect her to under the guise of being "real" honestly sickens me since I don't think for one second that's the reason for his hesitancy.  

Bottom line for me: Rachel deserves so much better than Peter. 

JMO

I really don't get that Peter doesn't like Rachel.  It's been said he's a bad actor.  If so, many of the pictures I've seen and many of the moments I have seen on screen beg to differ.  IMO he likes her.  He said he's falling in love with her.  The time frame on the show was too fast for him.  To me, that doesn't make him conniving or calculated.  It makes him someone who isn't ready to commit in 8 weeks or so...not the devil.   Does Rachel deserve to be denigrated because she had doubts when she was F2...was she doing it for the wrong reasons?  I don't think so.  I have not heard or read anything that makes me think Peter did either.  We all have differing opinions.  We all evaluate things differently.  Neither is right or wrong.  Rachel wants to be engaged.  Bryan offers that.  Rachel loves him I think.  win-win.  Peter will survive.

That's just it, he wasted everyone's time (and emotions) for his own agenda. imo  Don't get me wrong, everyone has
an agenda, HOWEVER, the way he treated Rachel was despicable imo.  The majority of the time, he treated her
like she had a deadly, contagious disease, and he wanted to stay as far away from her as possible. imo  I've never seen
anything like it.   And what puzzles me more, how anyone could watch this season and feel they witnessed a love connection between Peter and Rachel. imo Rachel deserved better than what he gave her.

Kashathediva wrote:

sparkler wrote:But what if he doesn't want a woman, fiance, or girlfriend? Why would that make him a bad person? Bryan is not being criticized for being 37 and single, so why must Peter want a woman in order to be a good person? I ask this in all seriousness. How do we extrapolate Peter is a bad person and doesn't want a relationship because of what we saw on Rachel's season? Or if he is in a relationship it is only for his personal profit? I don't see someone like that at all in Peter.

He wouldn't be a bad person at all. Not at all. There are tons--TONS of single people everywhere!
But then why go on the show. Why waste his time or TPTB. Why? No reason.
Don't go on the show.
S I M P L E.
Enjoy life doing something else.

Brad did it twice and people still like him around here. Just sayin'.

@mindless Brad should have probably never done the show either, but I do think he wanted a wife and a family, but he just has too many demons. With Peter, it seems like he's just really commitment-phobic and/or just not into Rachel. I don't fault him for doing the show, as most do it for their brand, not marriage, but it does seem to me that he knew he didn't love her and would never see her as his wife. And instead of admitting that, he made it about the proposal which made him more sympathetic. Anyways, I know people will disagree with his view of Rachel and her potential as a wife, but that's really the part that irks me. He just seems so cold to her, like he's doing her a favor, and it did seem like he was playing her. It will be interesting to see what he's like around women he likes on the Bachelor. Maybe I'll be more forgiving of him, if he doesn't completely change his demeanor and his attitude towards a proposal. IMO.

Aria wrote:@mindless Brad should have probably never done the show either, but I do think he wanted a wife and a family, but he just has too many demons. With Peter, it seems like he's just really commitment-phobic and/or just not into Rachel. I don't fault him for doing the show, as most do it for their brand, not marriage, but it does seem to me that he knew he didn't love her and would never see her as his wife. And instead of admitting that, he made it about the proposal which made him more sympathetic. Anyways, I know people will disagree with his view of Rachel and her potential as a wife, but that's really the part that irks me. He just seems so cold to her, like he's doing her a favor, and it did seem like he was playing her. It will be interesting to see what he's like around women he likes on the Bachelor. Maybe I'll be more forgiving of him, if he doesn't completely change his demeanor and his attitude towards a proposal. IMO.

I have to respectfully disagree with the bolded. It's been 6 years since he was last on the show, he's still single and last I heard he has no plans of settling down. Waste of time if there ever was one IMHO.

I do think the time frame is an issue if you don't fall in love pretty much at first sight/treat the proposal as a meaningless formality. You can have budding feelings for someone and still feel it's way too early to make a lifelong commitment. Didn't Peter say he was looking at rings two months into a past relationship? Seems he can fall fast, or at least could at some point, but is now very cautious. I don't think it's that odd considering he said he went to a therapist after one of his relationships. In my experience, the more you dissect your own feelings and actions and reactions, the harder it is to just let go and fall in love regardless of the circumstances or red flags. It doesn't have to be such an either-or situation. I was listening to that Ashley I. podcast with Becca standing in for Ben, and she kept saying how Peter is basically her on Chris's season. She liked Chris and would've kept dating him, but getting engaged after 3-4 dates just seemed so out there. Her feelings really grew after Chris met her family and she thought she might get there at the end, because so many do, but she just didn't. IMO Peter could still have hope, but since he's not there yet, he doesn't want to get ahead of himself in any way or lead Rachel on. I don't see why it would be better if he was all over her and telling her everything she wants to hear just to blindside her at the end by not proposing, or proposing when he has serious doubts. I personally think he's handling it just fine and if Rachel has a problem with it, she should send him home. As it keeps being repeated, she's the lead, and it doesn't make her the bad guy to send someone home when that's what this whole show is about. JMOAA.

St. Peter will be fine because he's got his kingdom of fans rallying behind him. IMO

okay you guys are **edited** on peter for giving her just enough but why can't rachel see past that? She let go of a lot of good men ready for commitment while she gave Peter every pass in the world. How can she not see through him and keep him around? It  makes no sense on Rachel's part.

rachelisqueen wrote:okay you guys are **edited** on peter for giving her just enough but why can't rachel see past that? She let go of a lot of good men ready for commitment while she gave Peter every pass in the world. How can she not see through him and keep him around? It  makes no sense on Rachel's part.

It doesn't make sense, but don't you know so many women like that? Who will keeping holding on to the morsels of commitment the guy is giving them, just hoping and begging that he will finally fully choose her and commit to a future with her? I feel like Rachel has a history of doing that, as she said that Peter reminds her of her exes who were like "I like you, I just don't want to commit to you" and her own words that she usually goes for the more challenging type. I think his hard to get vibe is the reason he made it so far, actually. The leads always want what they can't have, even if they actually don't really want it. IMO.,

rachelisqueen wrote:okay you guys are **edited**on peter for giving her just enough but why can't rachel see past that? She let go of a lot of good men ready for commitment while she gave Peter every pass in the world. How can she not see through him and keep him around? It  makes no sense on Rachel's part.

Hate is a very strong word and as much as I snark/criticize them, I don't hate anyone from this franchise except Josh Murray. IMO Rachel is giving him a pass coz she does have feelings for him on some level - I can only describe it as lust and wanting what she can't have IMO. IMO This was a two horse race from the beginning even though Bryan was miles ahead of Peter throughout. When she talks about looking past the infatuation and picking the one who 'wants what she wants AND wants it with her', IMO she is making it clear who was what.

All JMO

pavalygurl wrote:I really don't get that Peter doesn't like Rachel.  It's been said he's a bad actor.  If so, many of the pictures I've seen and many of the moments I have seen on screen beg to differ.  IMO he likes her.  He said he's falling in love with her.  The time frame on the show was too fast for him.  To me, that doesn't make him conniving or calculated.  It makes him someone who isn't ready to commit in 8 weeks or so...not the devil.   Does Rachel deserve to be denigrated because she had doubts when she was F2...was she doing it for the wrong reasons?  I don't think so.  I have not heard or read anything that makes me think Peter did either.  We all have differing opinions.  We all evaluate things differently.  Neither is right or wrong.  Rachel wants to be engaged.  Bryan offers that.  Rachel loves him I think.  win-win.  Peter will survive.

pavalygurl,

I am with you all the way! I want to be clear in saying that I have no favorite this season. I am neutral with both Peter and Bryan. I have been trying to figure out Peter as I have watched this season play out. I thought that Rachel liked him from the beginning. I also thought that he liked her. I have not seen Peter as calculating or conniving or manipulating or any of the things that have been said about him. Like he had this whole plan to keep Rachel off balance and control the situation and just give her enough to keep her hanging on. But she is the one who kept him on the show! We have seen contestants who can't commit and profess their love for the lead. They usually wind up getting sent home. But in this instance, Peter stayed on the show. I thought that after his hometown date he might possibly go home. I think at one point after Rachel left, he even said as much. But he's still there! I have to believe that Rachel found him attractive and appealing to keep him on this long. There are contestants who have had issues with committing and felt nervous or skittish about it. Knowing the premise of the show beforehand doesn't mean that once you are in the situation, that you won't have problems.

This is not the first time that someone has been reluctant. I don't think Graham is a good example because he just wasn't that into Deanna. He made it obvious with his body language. I also don't think Brooks is a good example either. I sensed that he also wasn't that into Des. I didn't understand why he stayed on the show so long. So I don't think that the guys who left are necessarily stand up guys who deserve admiration for how they behaved. I will say that I didn't get the same sense with Peter as I did with Graham and Brooks.

I will say that there were times when Peter did seem kind of aloof and unemotional and that's why he has been a bit of an enigma to me. But I just have not seen this deliberate attempt to manipulate Rachel or play her in some way. I do think we can form our own opinions and will see things differently. But I think Rachel ultimately got what she wanted out of this. She found Bryan. It took me longer to see it with them, but that's because I didn't watch all of the early episodes and also because I was maybe concentrating too much on Peter. But I did see the intense connection with Rachel and Bryan. There is no denying it. So they will be together and Rachel gets her happy ending. She found the right man for her.

I also agree that Peter will definitely survive.

Potentially an unpopular opinion - but I'm not hot on the final 3 choices. They all have red flags IMO. I feel that the decisions up to now have been driven more by infatuation/lust and her desire to get engaged at the end of this.

And the awkward pat that Peter gave when Rachel was crying - just no. He was keeping her at arms length and not what you would expect from someone who is supposedly 'falling in love'. It was painful to watch.

Bryan I feel is genuinely attracted to Rachel, but he is smarmy and a bit too smooth. Says a lot of things you want to hear - but does he actually mean it? The mom issue may also be a problem somewhere down the track. For Rachel's sake I do hope he is being totally genuine/real with her, sticks by his woman like he said and that she blends in well with him family (and vice versa).

Eric - seems like a sweet/decent guy, but has apparently never been in love before. Does she want to take a chance with someone supposedly so inexperienced? I feel that they are at different stages/points in their lives. Eric seems to be taken with the notion of falling in love, just as much as Rachel is with getting engaged.

Overall I'm feeling a bit 'meh' tbh.