Rachael Kirkconnell - Bachelor 25 - Matt James - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

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Post by Amethyst Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:12 pm

@gabriele wrote:@Amethyst I don’t think anyone needs to try to appease those on the Reddit subs, but rather by reading threads there I inadvertently learned a lot about anti-racism.

Just a personal opinion, but if I never hear words and phrases such as "performative," "micro-aggressions," etc. again it will be too soon. Again, it's not why I personally watch this show. Responses such as Tayshia's where she talks about being "disappointed" speak to me a whole lot more. I'm disappointed, too. Disappointed in the show and in a season that should have had so much going for it. Disappointed for the wonderful cast members who have had the lion's share of the attention taken away from them.

I have a job as an urban teacher that at many points of my career has been bloody difficult. So I don't need an education in racism. What I need is entertainment. Teachers like myself, nurses getting off of their ICU shifts, day care workers and other essential workers who are currently in fear for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, need a fun, mindless show that will help us to unwind and forget our troubles. Hopefully future cast members will get the message, don't bring that **** here. Hopefully the show will get the message, don't put that ****on the air. No one needs it. No one should have to deal with it.

The rest of the season is going to be difficult to watch. I should probably just take a long break from Reddit.
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Post by GuardianAngel Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:19 pm

@Norcalgal wrote:@GuardianAngel I'm with you. I want to be considered a white ally and hopefully show my respect appropriately.

Good Post just because I'm a white female doesn't mean I can't feel the pain towards those that are being affected by racism. I do.


Also, please lets not discuss in a negative manner what happens on other forums. TYIA


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Post by Amethyst Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:40 pm

@GuardianAngel wrote:
@Norcalgal wrote:@GuardianAngel I'm with you. I want to be considered a white ally and hopefully show my respect appropriately.

Good Post just because I'm a white female doesn't mean I can't feel the pain towards those that are being affected by racism. I do.

Also, please lets not discuss in a negative manner what happens on other forums. TYIA

Okey-doke! Back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Post by gabriele Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:22 pm

@Amethyst wrote:
@gabriele wrote:@Amethyst I don’t think anyone needs to try to appease those on the Reddit subs, but rather by reading threads there I inadvertently learned a lot about anti-racism.

Just a personal opinion, but if I never hear words and phrases such as "performative," "micro-aggressions," etc. again it will be too soon. Again, it's not why I personally watch this show. Responses such as Tayshia's where she talks about being "disappointed" speak to me a whole lot more. I'm disappointed, too. Disappointed in the show and in a season that should have had so much going for it. Disappointed for the wonderful cast members who have had the lion's share of the attention taken away from them.

I have a job as an urban teacher that at many points of my career has been bloody difficult. So I don't need an education in racism. What I need is entertainment. Teachers like myself, nurses getting off of their ICU shifts, day care workers and other essential workers who are currently in fear for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, need a fun, mindless show that will help us to unwind and forget our troubles. Hopefully future cast members will get the message, don't bring that **** here. Hopefully the show will get the message, don't put that ****on the air. No one needs it. No one should have to deal with it.

The rest of the season is going to be difficult to watch. I should probably just take a long break from Reddit.

Being a teacher has got to be difficult in the best of times, so I can definitely understand why you just want to be entertained by the show. We all have different experiences and life circumstances. I welcome learning about anti-racism while being entertained.

Since a few people here have mentioned wanting to be an ally I have posted a little about that on the Media thread since it’s hopefully informative. @GuardianAngel If it should be moved elsewhere please let me know.

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Post by Sprite Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:40 pm

I am with @Amethyst on this one. I want mindless entertainment from this show. It is my one guilty pleasure on TV.

Most of the time this show does nothing to educate us. We learned during Tayshia's season (I'm totally ignoring Clare because she did nothing for the show or my entertainment), because Tayshia was an extraordinary lead who was articulate, compassionate, understanding and brought out the best in everyone. We got to listen to those important conversations on the show. This is happening off the show. I have friends who watch and they have no idea of the controversy going on right now with Rachel or CH. They strictly watch the show and that is it, so they are learning nothing from this.

It would have been great if they had allowed Matt to have normal conversations with the women about issues that have impacted their lives...like Chelsea's conversation about her hair. Those are the conversations that matter and have the most impact because they come about naturally. Instead he had to deal with a bunch of nasty, bullying white women acting stupid, petty and entitled. Now they are scrambling, apologizing, promising they will learn...except it all sound scripted and fake...and the real message is diluted.

I don't know if any of them will have truly learned anything from this. I hope so, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Forgive my cynicism. Maybe it's because I am super tired. This year of covid has been exhausting at work, but more likely it is because I have seen too many times this show and cast members spewing all the right words and then going right back to what they have been doing.


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Post by Amethyst Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:51 pm

@Sprite wrote:I am with @Amethyst on this one. I want mindless entertainment from this show. It is my one guilty pleasure on TV.

Most of the time this show does nothing to educate us. We learned during Tayshia's season (I'm totally ignoring Clare because she did nothing for the show or my entertainment), because Tayshia was an extraordinary lead who was articulate, compassionate, understanding and brought out the best in everyone. We got to listen to those important conversations on the show. This is happening off the show. I have friends who watch and they have no idea of the controversy going on right now with Rachel or CH. They strictly watch the show and that is it, so they are learning nothing from this.

It would have been great if they had allowed Matt to have normal conversations with the women about issues that have impacted their lives...like Chelsea's conversation about her hair. Those are the conversations that matter and have the most impact because they come about naturally. Instead he had to deal with a bunch of nasty, bullying white women acting stupid, petty and entitled. Now they are scrambling, apologizing, promising they will learn...except it all sound scripted and fake...and the real message is diluted.

I don't know if any of them will have truly learned anything from this. I hope so, but I wouldn't bet money on it. Forgive my cynicism. Maybe it's because I am super tired. This year of covid has been exhausting at work, but more likely it is because I have seen too many times this show and cast members spewing all the right words and then going right back to what they have been doing.

ITA. It's the gentler conversations for the most part that get through to me. I think we all loved Tayshia's season.
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Post by gurlbrit Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:13 pm

@Amethyst wrote:
@gabriele wrote:@Amethyst I don’t think anyone needs to try to appease those on the Reddit subs, but rather by reading threads there I inadvertently learned a lot about anti-racism.

Just a personal opinion, but if I never hear words and phrases such as "performative," "micro-aggressions," etc. again it will be too soon. Again, it's not why I personally watch this show. Responses such as Tayshia's where she talks about being "disappointed" speak to me a whole lot more. I'm disappointed, too. Disappointed in the show and in a season that should have had so much going for it. Disappointed for the wonderful cast members who have had the lion's share of the attention taken away from them.

I have a job as an urban teacher that at many points of my career has been bloody difficult. So I don't need an education in racism. What I need is entertainment. Teachers like myself, nurses getting off of their ICU shifts, day care workers and other essential workers who are currently in fear for their lives, and the lives of their loved ones, need a fun, mindless show that will help us to unwind and forget our troubles. Hopefully future cast members will get the message, don't bring that **** here. Hopefully the show will get the message, don't put that ****on the air. No one needs it. No one should have to deal with it.

The rest of the season is going to be difficult to watch. I should probably just take a long break from Reddit.

Thank you for what you do @Amethyst. I know it's not easy being a teacher in an urban setting, my former bosses wife was a Philly school teacher for many years and it's hard work. I am following you around pretty much agreeing with everything you are saying. I believe most of us watch for the story and for escapism we don't watch for the drama.


I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear. ~Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Post by Emeralds Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:26 pm

@Amethyst wrote:
@gabriele wrote:While I generally don’t like Reddit, I read there only for the spoilers, I have to say it is a great place to learn about becoming anti-racist. That is the silver lining of the last Bachelor year between HB and now Rachael.

I don't watch the show to get "educated" in anti-racism. I watch the show to be entertained. Should Rachael, Hannah, Lee, etc. been called out for their behavior? Sure. Should the show be held accountable for its casting? Absolutely. But the Reddit sub has a history of being nasty and vicious (i.e. Jenna, but there's no shortage of examples.) It's a cesspool. Normally I've held my tongue, but I'm at a loss as to why cast members would give it any further heed. It's like throwing meat to sharks.

At this point, there is literally nothing Rachael or Hannah could do that would make that sub happy. Nothing. So why bother? If I were Rachael K., I would only do the mandatory interviews that are contractually required, and then I would go about my business. Keep in mind, I'm not excusing her behavior. I'm just stating that the battle of public opinion as it concerns that sub is already lost.

And as for a potential interview with Rachel L., why would Rachael K. even try? Rachel has four years of law school, is a trained orator, knows how to parse a response, and how to go after an opponent (or in this case an "opponent.") Rachael K. has already demonstrated that she is in over her head. If I were her, I'd give the podcasts a hard pass. I'm not throwing shade at Rachel L. (who I think could have gone harder on Chris H. in the interview for Extra,) just stating that IMO Rachael K. has literally nothing to gain from an interview with her.

Rachel explained on the Higher Learning podcast that she made a conscious decision to not press Chris harder because, as a black woman on TV, she’s not afforded the grace to raise her voice or show that she’s upset without that becoming part of the conversation. On her ATFR, when she became exasperated with Peter’s ‘woe is me’ act, she was painted by many as an angry black woman. I love that she sat back & let Chris show us exactly who he is.

As for Hannah, she had a ton of support on Reddit, even after last summer, until it became clear her promises were empty words.

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Post by luvnunity Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:09 pm

Does Rachael follow any of the producers?
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Post by GuardianAngel Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:46 pm

@luvnunity not that I can see but I only scrolled through a few. She continues to follow new IGs such as showingupforsocialjustice, privlegetoprogress, speakingofracism, Check Your Privilege, blackcoffeewithwhitefriends to name a few.

She posted an IG story, first post, I think since her Feb 11th post, a green drink but the rest of the story, was info on how to help with Texas,


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Post by lovelycrumpets Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:45 pm

@luvnunity wrote:Does Rachael follow any of the producers?

Yes, @nicolekavanaughh


"I have your daughter's best interests. I really do love your daughter, and I can stand here and say it and be 100% behind it -- or I wouldn't. I want her to be my wife, and I want to be her best friend, and I want to be her biggest cheerleader... Before I got out here my dad got really sick, and it put a lot of things into perspective for me. I love your daughter, and I want that girl to be the mother of my kids. I want her to lead my family in faith the way she's done so far on this trip and be that strong women that she is. I don't have any second guessing or any doubt about me and her -- at all." beatingheart

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Post by GuardianAngel Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:41 pm

@lovelycrumpets I can't seem to find that. Is it an IG?


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