Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion

Admin wrote:Moved from the Fan thread.

Laura Walsh wrote:Two things to comment on.

When JODI were on JKL he asked, "Do you keep the other one around for the show or what?"  At that point Andi turned to Josh and they gave each other a look but Andi replied in the appropriate manner.  IMO the look with Josh was yeah, that's it.  But again she took the high road.  She could have paid Nick back for embarrassing her by saying, yes, that's what we do.  But she didn't.

Also the Bob Beckel remark.  He said after he called her that bad name, "And she didn't even tell him."

Where did he get that information from?  According to Josh Andi told him about it.  And Andi said this in front of Josh and he agreed that she had told him.

IMO I remember the discussion on the night of the FSD with Josh that people remarked that Andi looked pensive (my word) at times on the date.  I think that was because she was with Josh and she was remembering the FSD with Nick and maybe realized she had made a bad mistake.  I truly believe that she might have even told Josh about it that night and told Josh she would understand if he didn't want to go through with it.  And I also believe that, although, Josh was probably hurt for sure, he said that didn't change his mind.  As mommamurray said Josh concentrated on what she did after he became engaged to her.  (This is all my speculation.)

On the Finale she kept saying in VO.  This whole thing could blow up in my face.  And after the engagement when Josh was carrying her away she said to Josh, thank you for sticking with me.  Maybe she was thinking that Josh might change his mind about becoming engaged because of what she had told him.

It would be interesting to hear what DocNash would think about this.

It is my belief that he who has never ever made a mistake in their life and wishes they could have a do over can speak out about the mistakes of others as much as they want.  IMO nobody would be able to speak out including me.

I think a lot could have been prevented if Andi had gone into the ATFR sit down better prepared and with less walls up.  She reacted badly, clearly not wanting to speak with Nick AT ALL (guilt?), and that moved Nick into a more confrontational stance.  She has said in interviews that she did NOT make up her mind before the FS dates, even though looking BACKWARDS she realizes she was already in love with Josh, and all she had to do, most likely, was SAY IT THAT WAY to Nick.  She has said many of the right things in interviews before and in interviews after but, overall, she was very insensitive with Nick in person, handling her F2 worse than almost any Bachelorette I can think of, despite having one of the more difficult times making up her mind.

I don't think that ANY of them (Andi, Josh OR Nick) have acted with complete class and stayed completely on the high road.  I know perfect graciousness and tact would be a lot to ask of anyone, but everything goes much better in this difficult situation when people can figure out how to maintain that.  I've been so frustrated to hear constant exultation of Andi and Josh and slamming of Nick, when clearly they ALL have fumbled at times.  It makes it very difficult for me to celebrate Andi and Josh's happy ending, which is what I truly long to do - just celebrate and cheer for love found, not have to deal with remarks about who is classier than whom, who is a douchebag, and who is disgusting and should be embarrassed.  These are normal people in an abnormal situation and they've all blown it in one way or another; I hate the contest for who has the most class.  

It makes no sense to me that her mind could have been made up before the FS, btw, because if it was - she does not hold values I can respect.  I do think she was starting to pull back a little from Nick, but I do not think her mind was made up.  I can understand what happened as long as she had not made up her mind yet.  It is a confusing situation; I get that.

I'm not sure it makes sense to read anything into Andi's VO about how things could blow up in her face: that is a very standard story line, and all leads speak some version of it. If it wasn't scripted (although I bet it was), then I would agree that she might be wondering if Josh would have a change of heart knowing what he knew. I can't imagine her not telling him in the FS what had happened before; it seems like that (before commitment) would be the time to do it.

One of the things I like about Andi and Josh, btw, is how they banter.  That isn't something you see in a lot of couples.  One of their very cute, fun unique things.

dw_a_mom wrote:

chasingpavements wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:

In one of her interviews well before the finale, she said she was going back to her job "for now". Next thing you know she resigns, something about until December. During her 'ette audition' on JPG's season, I knew right then and there, she was going to be the next 'ette and she would never go back to her ADA job. I could be wrong, but IMO she got a taste of fame, and is loving it.

I think they make a good looking couple. He's very handsome, and they look good together.

I think so too. I mean, I think she had only been working for a year when she took a leave of absence to go on the Bachelor. You can't be THAT career-focused if you basically quit your job after going to 3 years of school to get it. I think that Josh/Andi are probably going to see what opportunities there are (like SeanCat), and Andi will probably go back to her job when those opportunities have dried up.

They are a very attractive couple (although…they do look a bit like brother/sister to me). This is the only couple from the franchise who I have no opinion on whether they will make it or not. I usually feel like I *know*, but I just don't for Jodi. They do seem to fit well.

I think the problem is that hers was a 200% or nothing job.  When she realized she couldn't give it 200% right now, she felt she had to take a leave.  Whether or not she ever goes back to it will depend on how her and Josh see their roles, their future, and their timing on kids et al.

I left my job when I got engaged.  I had one of those 200% jobs and as much as I loved what I did, I did not want to keep running at 200%.  I wanted more balance in my life.  I did not leave my career, but I did leave my job.

I agree.  I live in Fulton County and know someone who works with the DA's office often (they don't know Andi).  From what they've shared, the ADA's work loads are unbelievable.  Definitely a 200% or nothing job.  I can see Andi wanting to reevaluate how she wants to spend her work life going forward.

dw_a_mom wrote:

Admin wrote:Moved from the Fan thread.

Laura Walsh wrote:Two things to comment on.

When JODI were on JKL he asked, "Do you keep the other one around for the show or what?"  At that point Andi turned to Josh and they gave each other a look but Andi replied in the appropriate manner.  IMO the look with Josh was yeah, that's it.  But again she took the high road.  She could have paid Nick back for embarrassing her by saying, yes, that's what we do.  But she didn't.

Also the Bob Beckel remark.  He said after he called her that bad name, "And she didn't even tell him."

Where did he get that information from?  According to Josh Andi told him about it.  And Andi said this in front of Josh and he agreed that she had told him.

IMO I remember the discussion on the night of the FSD with Josh that people remarked that Andi looked pensive (my word) at times on the date.  I think that was because she was with Josh and she was remembering the FSD with Nick and maybe realized she had made a bad mistake.  I truly believe that she might have even told Josh about it that night and told Josh she would understand if he didn't want to go through with it.  And I also believe that, although, Josh was probably hurt for sure, he said that didn't change his mind.  As mommamurray said Josh concentrated on what she did after he became engaged to her.  (This is all my speculation.)

On the Finale she kept saying in VO.  This whole thing could blow up in my face.  And after the engagement when Josh was carrying her away she said to Josh, thank you for sticking with me.  Maybe she was thinking that Josh might change his mind about becoming engaged because of what she had told him.

It would be interesting to hear what DocNash would think about this.

It is my belief that he who has never ever made a mistake in their life and wishes they could have a do over can speak out about the mistakes of others as much as they want.  IMO nobody would be able to speak out including me.

I think a lot could have been prevented if Andi had gone into the ATFR sit down better prepared and with less walls up.  She reacted badly, clearly not wanting to speak with Nick AT ALL (guilt?), and that moved Nick into a more confrontational stance.  She has said in interviews that she did NOT make up her mind before the FS dates, even though looking BACKWARDS she realizes she was already in love with Josh, and all she had to do, most likely, was SAY IT THAT WAY to Nick.  She has said many of the right things in interviews before and in interviews after but, overall, she was very insensitive with Nick in person, handling her F2 worse than almost any Bachelorette I can think of, despite having one of the more difficult times making up her mind.

I don't think that ANY of them (Andi, Josh OR Nick) have acted with complete class and stayed completely on the high road.  I know perfect graciousness and tact would be a lot to ask of anyone, but everything goes much better in this difficult situation when people can figure out how to maintain that.  I've been so frustrated to hear constant exultation of Andi and Josh and slamming of Nick, when clearly they ALL have fumbled at times.  It makes it very difficult for me to celebrate Andi and Josh's happy ending, which is what I truly long to do - just celebrate and cheer for love found, not have to deal with remarks about who is classier than whom, who is a douchebag, and who is disgusting and should be embarrassed.  These are normal people in an abnormal situation and they've all blown it in one way or another; I hate the contest for who has the most class.  

It makes no sense to me that her mind could have been made up before the FS, btw, because if it was - she does not hold values I can respect.  I do think she was starting to pull back a little from Nick, but I do not think her mind was made up.  I can understand what happened as long as she had not made up her mind yet.  It is a confusing situation; I get that.

I'm not sure it makes sense to read anything into Andi's VO about how things could blow up in her face:  that is a very standard story line, and all leads speak some version of it.  If it wasn't scripted (although I bet it was), then I would agree that she might be wondering if Josh would have a change of heart knowing what he knew.  I can't imagine her not telling him in the FS what had happened before; it seems like that (before commitment) would be the time to do it.

One of the things I like about Andi and Josh, btw, is how they banter.  That isn't something you see in a lot of couples.  One of their very cute, fun unique things.

Great post. Fair and observant.

dw_a_mom

Thank you for your thoughts on my post. Just wanted to speak to one part in your post and then put it all behind me.

You mentioned how Andi acknowledged Nick as the worse you had ever seen before and that may be true however we know that Andi watched the plane video of Nick. She also saw the deleted scene where he is talking about Josh in a not nice way. And then to top it off she knows that he's been trying to reach her. So I think she came in with a preconceived notion and had her guard up.

I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

I just feel very badly for Josh and Andi's parents. I mean, Josh's family were having a viewing party with people from their church. I also feel bad for Josh and just felt that Andi must have been so humiliated, I mean, we're talking about millions of viewers witnessing this statement.

Andi was asked in an interview why she just didn't meet with Nick before the AFTR and Andi said because it was never going to be a private conversation, it was always going to be with cameras so I felt it could be done on the AFTR. I guess we'll never know but if there were cameras and it had been taped just maybe TPTB would have had the sense to delete it out of the tape.

But Andi and Josh's relationship seems to have weathered this and that's what counts the most.

Again, I really enjoyed your thoughtful response to my post.

I wasn't a Josh fan or a Nick fan throughout the season. I didn't get totally on the Josh train until almost the end when it seemed that everything from SM was pointing directly at Josh and not at Nick. So I guess I'm not as emotionally vested in anyone person.

As far as Nick goes, many have gone before him as the dumped F2 or F3 that felt "used" in the FS. None of them have done what Nick did to Andi. The other thing that bothered me about him, was that, unlike others who have been in his spot, he didn't use that time for true closure. Like most ask, was there something else I could have done? what did you see in the F1 that you didn't see in me? why do you think F1 is a better choice? Using that time for growth and understanding. Instead he told Andi all of the things that he had wished SHE hadn't done.

As far as Andi goes, I do think her walls were up and she was expecting things to be bad on the AFR. One reason, I think, is because Nick had shown up at her private vacation with her F1 and had shown up at the MTA. She didn't want to see him then and she certainly didn't want to see him on live TV. I think she did talk to him for a much longer time in the DR than what we saw. Remember in his plane video he said that she had told him "it's just too hard" after she had told him on their HTD that what they had was really easy. We didn't hear her say that when she was letting him go. Nick could have easily challenged her on that saying things just didn't make sense to him as long as he had thought about it. The bottom line was she tried to let him down as gently as she could under the circumstances, but it didn't help much. He could have helped himself get the closure he needed to move on, but he didn't.

And, for Josh, I think it's just natural to try to defend the one you love and let the world know that you support them 100%. Nick and Josh didn't like each other during filming so not surprising that there wasn't a lot of love there after all was said and done.

I, for one, will enjoy following Andi and Josh. They are really cute together and seem so happy. They remind me a lot of JASH in that way.

Moonchild

I agree. Nice post.

Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

GuardianAngel wrote:Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

Thank goodness she had packed the industrial family size of OFF just in case though.   

GuardianAngel wrote:Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

Yes, I have admitted my error.

Alanna wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

Thank goodness she had packed the industrial family size of OFF just in case though.   

Yep, thank goodness!

Alanna wrote:

GuardianAngel wrote:Nick did not go to Mexico. As per CH's blog, he called CH while Andi was in Mexico.

Thank goodness she had packed the industrial family size of OFF just in case though.   

 

I have no idea how Andi & Josh will be as a couple but they have a decent shot because they already live in the same place. I thought I heard Andi say in an interview that Josh living there was kind of a drawback because she wanted out of Atlanta. A joke or perhaps I heard it wrong?

I do agree that maybe that's what set Nick off. I also agree that when the mention of did you love Nick was asked, if only Andi had said, "Yes, Nick, I loved you but I was in love with Josh." Then maybe he wouldn't have said that comment.

Ahhh, but on the ATFR Andi did say that she did feel all those things with Nick, and she turned to him and  said: How do you compare a GREATER LOVE blah, blah....Nick just didn't want to hear it. Basically, she said what YOU are saying but in different words. That's how I understood it.  HE HAD AN AGENDA. He was just waiting to plug in their "lovemaking" on national TV.

I was actually shocked when (the timing) he said it because he WASN'T listening at all to what Andi was saying. To me, it seemed that he just wanted to blurt out this lovemaking comment to make himself look good and get back at Andi.

You can all go back and play that part of the conversation and see what I'm talking about. I don't have any sympathy for Nick. I'm sure that Andi is sorry she ever laid eyes on Nick, who turned out to be less than a love you wish to cherish...