THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

AllAboutLove wrote:Good point, Litta!

Wasn't Alex heard in season preview telling JoJo he was falling for her or something or am I mixing that up? Maybe he acts rude when she lets him go and is mean so she cries? I could see Alex going off on Jordan, Chase, Robby for sure and perhaps he turns on her for that? He seems to be going on and on about his pity roses and not getting a SD and real time with JoJo so I could see him going off like he does if she sends him like she did Wells. Wells if far more classy if so.

If Alex is ratting out the guys, I think it's about Jordan or Robby as thus far Chase is his closest friend in the house - or so it seems.

In a VO in previews someone says something to the effect of "I am going to tell her all of it just like it is", is that Alex, JT or Chase? After that comment they pan to JT, Chase and Jordan outside somewhere.

In previews last night, Alex at dinner table with Jojo and saying (parapharased) 'I might be going home. I'm not going to leave without laying it all out on the table".  Laying out all of his love before she rejects him? Or doing a Scorched Earth campaign after she rejects him?  In other episode previews we heard Alex's VO saying "Robby is a lying fake".

Oh, it was Jordan who said he is 'going to tell her everything' (paraphrased).

Katiebelle wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:Preview for next episode

Robby going on about how he is THE frontrunner?

Looks like the s/caps you sleuthed in BA by the clock, @katiebelle so does Robby get a second SD?

So Alex get a single date and goes home. They have a group date and then Robby gets another single date. Then James is sent home at the RC?

@Katiebelle, I think it goes like this next week (episode 7):

Alex 1:1
GD - JT, Chase, Robby   Robby gets GDR & SQT (the clocktower kiss/making out in hotel bed SCs)
Jordan second 1:1 (up against the wall kiss SC)
Luke second 1:1 (trapshooting)

AllAboutLove wrote:

Amethyst wrote:
I haven't kept up with the sleuthing. She lets Luke go? Arrgh. I didn't see that one coming.

Based on s/caps it seems Jordan is in F2 so s/caps with Robby and Chase means Luke likely F4.

Luke seems to be above the fray of the drama and nonsense so if it is any consolation he may be the next Bachelor if F4

Works for me!

That's what I am thinking... Luke definitely seems like a shoo-in for next lead.

Atm, I am thinking:
F1 = Jordan
F2 = Chase
F3 = Robby
F4 = Luke (possible next lead)

I think Robby's upcoming girlfriend issues will make him a less viable next lead candidate so being in F3 will let Luke still overshadow him. With Chase I am thinking he may be like JoJo - slower to open up like she said this episode but he does and then gets the heartbreak when he lets his walls done and it's too little too late and Jordan is still one step ahead of him (like Chase's reaction when he held his heart after Jordan got FIR). Jordan still seems like the frontrunner and JoJo still seems to be all into him. Unless something happens to make him F2  I think Jordan is likely F1 (the only other person I can see F1 now instead of Jordan is Chase but being on a 2on1 doesn't bode well?).

I can accept Chase being F2 except for that comment "not what you did to me" in the FRC. I cannot fathom Chase doing something unconscionable to hurt JoJo intentionally.

AllAboutLove wrote:

But I guess that may be because I go with actions over words and Chase seems to be doing more to show JoJo his feelings rather than just saying pretty things (anyone can do that - not many can back the words up with action).

So many posts that I want to comment on.

I actually think that this statement is the crux of this season. Jo hasn't yet figured out that words and actions need to align in love. Love is a verb. I fear that Jo is still very much stuck in the early-20s notion that passion and lust equal relationship (see her words to Wells). We see her top guys are the ones who are essentially very physical--Jordan, Luke, and Robby. Chase is physically affectionate but not to the degree of intensity of her other suitors. It reminds me again of Ali's warning about lust vs. love. I want to hope that she gets there, that she learns a new definition of love.

I see Jo continually dismiss anything negative brought to her attention about Jordan. She was over the moon when he told her on the steps that he wanted exactly what she wanted at the end of this. They will continue to throw obstacles in the path of them and make her doubt him.

TPTB are underlining that Jo might make a mistake and send home the person that she should've spent her life with. I am wondering if that's the explanation for Chase's departure. Though I saw genuine emotion from her with Chase--she actually sounded emotional when she talked to him--I think that he is unlike anything that she's ever known, and he challenges her in a way that she's not ready for. At times, he feels like Reid to me. At others, like Chris S. There were parts of his date where I thought, yes, he's her F1. At other times, I could write the story of his season as the Bach. I need to go back and examine possible pathways for Chase for the rest of the season.

I like Luke, I do, but they keep having the same conversation. I don't see any forward progression of their relationship. Same with Robby.

With Chase and Jordan there is forward progression. They are overcoming obstacles together. They are talking about the issues between them.

I'm still trying to unpack this thing, and a part of me wonders if that scene of JoJo on a date alone was portentous.

AllAboutLove wrote:That's what I am thinking... Luke definitely seems like a shoo-in for next lead.

Atm, I am thinking:
F1 = Jordan
F2 = Chase
F3 = Robby
F4 = Luke (possible next lead)

I think Robby's upcoming girlfriend issues will make him a less viable next lead candidate so being in F3 will let Luke still overshadow him. With Chase I am thinking he may be like JoJo - slower to open up like she said this episode but he does and then gets the heartbreak when he lets his walls done and it's too little too late and Jordan is still one step ahead of him (like Chase's reaction when he held his heart after Jordan got FIR). Jordan still seems like the frontrunner and JoJo still seems to be all into him. Unless something happens to make him F2  I think Jordan is likely F1 (the only other person I can see F1 now instead of Jordan is Chase but being on a 2on1 doesn't bode well?).

Or flip Jordan (F2) with Chase (F1.) The difference is that at this point, I could see Chase in the running for the next Bachelor, but not Jordan.

IMO Jordan would end up breaking her heart. I could see her making a go of it with Chase.

AllAboutLove wrote:That's what I am thinking... Luke definitely seems like a shoo-in for next lead.

Atm, I am thinking:
F1 = Jordan
F2 = Chase
F3 = Robby
F4 = Luke (possible next lead)

I think Robby's upcoming girlfriend issues will make him a less viable next lead candidate so being in F3 will let Luke still overshadow him. With Chase I am thinking he may be like JoJo - slower to open up like she said this episode but he does and then gets the heartbreak when he lets his walls done and it's too little too late and Jordan is still one step ahead of him (like Chase's reaction when he held his heart after Jordan got FIR). Jordan still seems like the frontrunner and JoJo still seems to be all into him. Unless something happens to make him F2  I think Jordan is likely F1 (the only other person I can see F1 now instead of Jordan is Chase but being on a 2on1 doesn't bode well?).

I think I agree, AAL, with one exception.
I don't think JoJo will take Chase to F2 if she isn't feeling it with him. Just a feeling I get based on their dinner conversation during their first 1:1. All that talk about marriage, his parents' divorce, how Chase only wants to do it all once. 
I think she would take Robby over Chase to F2. 
If Chase is being considered for next lead, it is probably better that he go at F3. With Chase's edit, if he is not F1, then I will guess he is right up there with Luke as another choice for next lead

aviej wrote:I can accept Chase being F2 except for that comment "not what you did to me" in the FRC. I cannot fathom Chase doing something unconscionable to hurt JoJo intentionally.

I think that comment may have been frankenbitten and not what she said herself? So something put together and not negative at all?

I think FRC previews with VO and dubbing usually end up with things said that don't even happen so I am wary of those types of previews.

Then again, it could be what she said if the words match exactly her mouth moving (I haven't looked closely enough to see).  

veg_out wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:

But I guess that may be because I go with actions over words and Chase seems to be doing more to show JoJo his feelings rather than just saying pretty things (anyone can do that - not many can back the words up with action).

So many posts that I want to comment on.

I actually think that this statement is the crux of this season. Jo hasn't yet figured out that words and actions need to align in love. Love is a verb. I fear that Jo is still very much stuck in the early-20s notion that passion and lust equal relationship (see her words to Wells). We see her top guys are the ones who are essentially very physical--Jordan, Luke, and Robby. Chase is physically affectionate but not to the degree of intensity of her other suitors. It reminds me again of Ali's warning about lust vs. love. I want to hope that she gets there, that she learns a new definition of love.

I see Jo continually dismiss anything negative brought to her attention about Jordan. She was over the moon when he told her on the steps that he wanted exactly what she wanted at the end of this. They will continue to throw obstacles in the path of them and make her doubt him.

TPTB are underlining that Jo might make a mistake and send home the person that she should've spent her life with. I am wondering if that's the explanation for Chase's departure. Though I saw genuine emotion from her with Chase--she actually sounded emotional when she talked to him--I think that he is unlike anything that she's ever known, and he challenges her in a way that she's not ready for. At times, he feels like Reid to me. At others, like Chris S. There were parts of his date where I thought, yes, he's her F1. At other times, I could write the story of his season as the Bach. I need to go back and examine possible pathways for Chase for the rest of the season.

I like Luke, I do, but they keep having the same conversation. I don't see any forward progression of their relationship. Same with Robby.

With Chase and Jordan there is forward progression. They are overcoming obstacles together. They are talking about the issues between them.

I'm still trying to unpack this thing, and a part of me wonders if that scene of JoJo on a date alone was portentous.

IA. I find JoJo to be someone who doesn't really know what love is or at least has misconstrued its meaning. I think she is likely also someone, based on her past relationships, to excuse bad behavior with words and forgive again and again. In this way I find her not so much immature but not ready for a commitment of marriage just yet as I don't think she fully grasps that it is more important to base love on a person's actions than on their words which are meaningless without action to support them. 

IA about Luke and JoJo's relationship being at a standstill. They just make out and repeat the same stuff so I can see why he is F4 based on the lack of progression.

Robby I don't even really get why he is there other than he is all over her with the "I love yous" so perhaps he makes her feel "safe" because of that and like you posted, he seems at a standstill too.

Jordan I actually am not so sure their relationship is progressing that much? He keeps having to defend himself and deal with some sort of negativity or doubt questions and then says how he is there, falling love, ready, etc, etc, so it feels the same now all the time to me. Lots of rinse and repeat with Jordan and JoJo.

IA that Chase is progressing and they have real conversations about the future and where they are going. It feels real to me between Chase and JoJo and I feel like there is depth there. Out of all the F4, I think there is more of a solid foundation with Chase and JoJo than any of the other guys. He doesn't get defensive when questioned the way that Jordan does, instead he immediately asks what he can do. Very mature guy, imo, and total marriage material since most of marriage is about communication, imo. Honestly, I have a feeling that if Chase is not F1, he may be the one who got away.