Bachelorette 17 - Katie Thurston - Aug 2 (HTD) - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:I am a bit surprised to see this from John, but know he is a good friend to Katie and she needs that now.  This to me is all such a train wreck and I see no "winners", just a lot of hurt, angry, fragile folks.  

Exactly! Now everyone got a diagnosis for him. All I saw was man expressing how he felt, whether he was right or wrong. This is something we all do at some point. If he had been throwing things, slamming doors, just tearing up the place or slapping Katie around then I would say yes he has a behavior problem. I didn't like what happened and I wish he would have stayed and worked it out because he truly broke my girl heart. She was the reason I watched this season. John need to go sit down and rest his nerves.

We all see things differently, gaslighting behavior during an argument is "abuse" according to mental health experts (verbal/mental abuse).  Communication is key.  He couldn't see her side of the argument, it was all about him by the edit TPTB gave us.  Blame TPTB if this is not how is he, but don't enable this type of behavior from ANYONE!  We all deserve better.

If expressing your feelings is gaslighting, then we all are abusive. I guess we should just keep quiet and just go along with the program. Keep it within, that would be the healthy thing to do. IMO that so-called blow up wasn't all that, he saw things this way, she saw things another way and he wanted to leave. Just that simple, no yelling and screaming.

allykat wrote:I haven't watched even a minute of the show this season. I wasn't interested in Katie. But I saw all these articles about gaslighting and this dramatic fight, so I went over to Hulu and watched the ILY and the break-up conversation to see what it was all about. As an uninitiated viewer of this season...

1. It wasn't that dramatic.
2. Katie looked like a hostage dealing with a triggered person that was trying to not set things off. I also thought she basically told him he was F1 without saying the exact words, but he didn't want to take yes for an answer.
3. Greg seemed like he was acting (not very well) and like he wanted to pick a fight and have a dramatic moment. During the break up he didn't seem to have much passion or really care about what he was saying and was just working through a script or a process.

JMO. But I don't get it.

Well said, but especially the bold. I have no explanation why a contestant claims to have poured out his heart, but doesn't stick it out until the end because of some notion, actually I don't even know what he was thinking. After Katie relentlessly apologized every time he pushed back, even though imo she had nothing to apologize about, nothing was going to make it better for him. No rose, no #1 pick, nothing, he wanted out. After whatever number of episodes it comes down to three and he's pissed because, why? I still don't understand.

If anyone led anyone on, imo it's Greg who led her on. Imagine Zac or Bryan or any other F1 who is still very much happy, say forget it, I'm done. To me this is Frank/Ali Graham/DeAnna Brooks/Des material where they just didn't want to be there anymore.

GuardianAngel wrote:

allykat wrote:I haven't watched even a minute of the show this season. I wasn't interested in Katie. But I saw all these articles about gaslighting and this dramatic fight, so I went over to Hulu and watched the ILY and the break-up conversation to see what it was all about. As an uninitiated viewer of this season...

1. It wasn't that dramatic.
2. Katie looked like a hostage dealing with a triggered person that was trying to not set things off. I also thought she basically told him he was F1 without saying the exact words, but he didn't want to take yes for an answer.
3. Greg seemed like he was acting (not very well) and like he wanted to pick a fight and have a dramatic moment. During the break up he didn't seem to have much passion or really care about what he was saying and was just working through a script or a process.

JMO. But I don't get it.

Well said, but especially the bold. I have no explanation why a contestant claims to have poured out his heart, but doesn't stick it out until the end because of some notion, actually I don't even know what he was thinking. After Katie relentlessly apologized every time he pushed back, even though imo she had nothing to apologize about, nothing was going to make it better for him. No rose, no #1 pick, nothing, he wanted out. After whatever number of episodes it comes down to three and he's pissed because, why? I still don't understand.

If anyone led anyone on, imo it's Greg who led her on. Imagine Zac or Bryan or any other F1 who is still very much happy, say forget it, I'm done. To me this is Frank/Ali Graham/DeAnna Brooks/Des material where they just didn't want to be there anymore.

That's a good point! Basically he did what they did but many of us just didn't like the way he did it.

I wonder if Greg told Katie that he went to acting school and was pursuing an acting career or if she found out post filming?

https://www.podbean.com/ew/dir-bszyh-f7a9045

alwayscooking wrote:I wonder if Greg told Katie that he went to acting school and was pursuing an acting career or if she found out post filming?  

I doubt it, since he made such an effort to clean out his social media, including LinkedIn.
I still can’t figure out if he convinced himself that he was in love or if it was all an act. Clearly he never really loved her.

It’s interesting to compare Greg to Brooks. Brooks dreaded the thought of hurting Des, and tried his best to put the breakup on himself. Greg went in with the clear intent to make Katie feel that it was all her fault.
All JMO of course.

I read the transcripts of the conversations between Katie and Greg (two separate posts over on Reddit.) I'm left with the feeling that the format of the show just wasn't working for Greg. I think it was evident in his not being able to handle the language of the show -- getting the rose, being number one, a "list," etc. I also think that seeing Blake with Katie enjoying time together on a date helped to drive him over the edge. The problem came when he exposed his deepest feelings to Katie. I think that made him feel extremely vulnerable and exposed at a time when the format of the show already wasn't working for him. I don't think Katie's response had much to do with his meltdown -- IMO it was just something that he latched onto. I think it was more that he exposed himself emotionally, and *still* had to deal with her dating two other men.

This has happened to other cast members in the past, of course.  It's just that Greg didn't do a good job of handling his issues (to put it mildly.) The 180 turn, the coldness, the constant challenges to what Katie was saying, IMO serve as a good predictor for how he would handle other challenges in a committed relationship. As painful as it was, I think it was a good thing that Katie saw this. Better now than down the road.

I read somewhere on reddit that Greg's friend said he cried a lot after he came home....?? Who knows??

I think her demeanor was just so matter of fact in that pivotal moment, and he couldn't shake his disappointment. Held on to it like a dog with a bone in hopes of protecting himself from being sucked in to "the process"... especially as you said after seeing her with Blake. I'm trying to believe he was sticking with what his gut was telling him (as a viewer I saw the moment where he felt kicked in the stomach.... But clearly he didn't know how to explain that to her, altho I think that's what he was trying to do
...)

But of course I will end all posts with, maybe he is just a toxic gaslighting narcissist and/or selfserving actor (with equally talented relatives ), and the villain of this whole thing. Don't know if we will ever know for sure....

Re Brooks, yes, he was sweet to Des (who has a very different personality than Katie jmo), but he was telling her he didn't want what she seemed to want. His objective was to get himself out of there while inflicting as minimal damage as possible. Ostensibly Greg did want what Katie claimed to want, but was finding her that day less than credible. Different storyline, I think ..?

@Billysmom IA - My comparison's upthread were a different story line for sure. Graham and Brooks both weren't in love, Frank decided he wanted his g/f. Each of them were the top pics, Ali later said if Frank stayed she would have chosen him.

I do think each of them tried to be sensitive to the hurt they were inflicting on the lead, but to me none of them, including Greg wanted to be there. For someone that was supposedly in love, to me he didn't care at all what Katie was going through and the process she was contractually bound to.

Billysmom wrote:I read somewhere on reddit that Greg's friend said he cried a lot after he came home....?? Who knows??

I think her demeanor was just so matter of fact in that pivotal moment, and he couldn't shake his disappointment. Held on to it like a dog with a bone in hopes of protecting himself from being sucked in to "the process"... especially as you said after seeing her with Blake. I'm trying to believe he was sticking with what his gut was telling him (as a viewer I saw the moment where he felt kicked in the stomach.... But clearly he didn't know how to explain that to her, altho I think that's what he was trying to do
...)

But of course I will end all posts with, maybe he is just a toxic gaslighting narcissist and/or selfserving actor (with equally talented relatives ), and the villain of this whole thing. Don't know if we will ever know for sure....

Re Brooks, yes, he was sweet to Des (who has a very different personality than Katie jmo), but he was telling her he didn't want what she seemed to want. His objective was to get himself out of there while inflicting as minimal damage as possible. Ostensibly Greg did want what Katie claimed to want, but was finding her that day less than credible. Different storyline, I think ..?

Yeah that! According to all the doctors.

GuardianAngel wrote:@Billysmom  IA - My comparison's upthread were a different story line for sure. Graham and Brooks both weren't in love, Frank decided he wanted his g/f. Each of them were the top pics, Ali later said if Frank stayed she would have chosen him.

I do think each of them tried to be sensitive to the hurt they were inflicting on the lead, but to me none of them, including Greg wanted to be there. For someone that was supposedly in love, to me he didn't care at all what Katie was going through and the process she was contractually bound to.

Yeah, I agree with you. Bottom line, Greg did not want to be there.

I have no idea how he went from being "in love" to throwing a major tantrum and bailing. And then he supposedly goes back to New Jersey and cries for two days? He could have had the girl. Unlike the other guys you mentioned, there was nothing rational about Greg's behavior. At least when, (say) Brooks went home, I could understand why. He wasn't feeling it for Des.

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:Just watched the Greg "debacle" in his thread.  @Maddy you are right, it was all about me, me, me.  He could not see that it was difficult for her, she told him in no uncertain terms that she wasn't going to tell any of them that she loved them until the end.  If he doesn't have the cojones to stick it out for a television show what's going to happen if something really tough happens in their lives.  Going to be an interesting finale!

You would think now would be a good time to ditch that plan:yes: if he calmed now (all's well) if he didn't then he was just full of crock. Greg is not the first to have a hard time with this process and he won't be the last. Heck Emily was clowning after she had been picked and engaged. These people don't know if they're truly the F1 until the end, although Greg was always her F1. She plainly layed that out last night. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there, that tells me she didn't feel anything for the other guys. She truly fell in love and she's still having a time with it now.

Is there evidence that Desiree talks to her because I read one of her interviews and she said Kaitlyn and Tayshia talked her out of quitting, didn't hear her say nothing about third person helping her. That lingerie photo reeks single to me.

@pbmax, yes it certainly would be a good idea to ditch the plan of not telling any of them that she was in love with them, if that was really how she felt.  Many F1s have said that the lead let them know that they were it and gave them enough confidence to carry on.  Why not this time?  It says to me that maybe Katie was having second thoughts about Greg being her F1.

Not with what came out of her mouth last night, she told it all. It was Greg or no one. She said she didn't know what would happen if Greg wasn't there. So it was Greg from beginning to end and she just played the role with the other guys. Truly her worst fears came true and I really hate that for her.

I keep thinking back to Des and Brooks and how so many couldn't see how Des could go on and choose someone else after going all in with Brooks, yet she did cause she realized that she really had stronger feelings for Chris.  Once again we are seeing this same routine again of how some feel that there is no way Katie would choose someone else.  To me, it was quite obvious that she had a greater connection with Blake.  IMO, things peaked too soon for her and Greg for him to be the F1.

Jaybird wrote:

alwayscooking wrote:

timfan wrote:I think Katie dodged a bullet with Greg I think he wanted an excuse to leave jmo

That's it in a nutshell!  

I also think Katie may have been subconsciously pulling away from Greg

Totally agree on both points. And also why I don’t think Blake is sweating this at all if they’re together. As crazy as Katie acted about Greg, they showed us plenty of scenes to see how much work it is to keep this guy happy and reassured.  TV show or ‘process’, either way, she gave him a lot of reassurance along the way.

Blake had about half that reassurance and didn’t crumble (yet). Which one seems like a better option to give it a whirl in real life? I just don’t see her in love enough with Greg, by a long shot, to sign up for that much effort to be in a relationship. He isn’t ready and it’s not his fault at all. I am sure he’ll be ready in due time and find the right one. JMOs

Oh, and @bluwavz your Avi is hall of fame worthy LOL. morticia Adams should be the brand icon  for this show

Yea, IMO, she's been showing for a while now that she is all in with Blake.....Just like with Des, she said that she thinks it was or wanted it to be one way, but IMO her actions were showing something completely something different.

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:I am a bit surprised to see this from John, but know he is a good friend to Katie and she needs that now.  This to me is all such a train wreck and I see no "winners", just a lot of hurt, angry, fragile folks.  

Exactly! Now everyone got a diagnosis for him. All I saw was man expressing how he felt, whether he was right or wrong. This is something we all do at some point. If he had been throwing things, slamming doors, just tearing up the place or slapping Katie around then I would say yes he has a behavior problem. I didn't like what happened and I wish he would have stayed and worked it out because he truly broke my girl heart. She was the reason I watched this season. John need to go sit down and rest his nerves.

We all see things differently, gaslighting behavior during an argument is "abuse" according to mental health experts (verbal/mental abuse).  Communication is key.  He couldn't see her side of the argument, it was all about him by the edit TPTB gave us.  Blame TPTB if this is not how is he, but don't enable this type of behavior from ANYONE!  We all deserve better.

pbmax wrote:

gurlbrit wrote:

pbmax wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:I am a bit surprised to see this from John, but know he is a good friend to Katie and she needs that now.  This to me is all such a train wreck and I see no "winners", just a lot of hurt, angry, fragile folks.  

Exactly! Now everyone got a diagnosis for him. All I saw was man expressing how he felt, whether he was right or wrong. This is something we all do at some point. If he had been throwing things, slamming doors, just tearing up the place or slapping Katie around then I would say yes he has a behavior problem. I didn't like what happened and I wish he would have stayed and worked it out because he truly broke my girl heart. She was the reason I watched this season. John need to go sit down and rest his nerves.

We all see things differently, gaslighting behavior during an argument is "abuse" according to mental health experts (verbal/mental abuse).  Communication is key.  He couldn't see her side of the argument, it was all about him by the edit TPTB gave us.  Blame TPTB if this is not how is he, but don't enable this type of behavior from ANYONE!  We all deserve better.

If expressing your feelings is gaslighting, then we all are abusive. I guess we should just keep quiet and just go along with the program. Keep it within, that would be the healthy thing to do. IMO that so-called blow up wasn't all that, he saw things this way, she saw things another way and he wanted to leave. Just that simple, no yelling and screaming.

You are correct @gurlbrit, IMO, gaslighting is actually when someone keeps going at something, antagonistic, trying to start a fight. It has NOTHING to do with just a disagreement or just communication. The way Greg acted was complete antagonistic, bullying and utterly childish. That guy isn`t ready for a full time meaningful relationship. IMO, he has a lot of growing up to do.