Episode 5 - 6/20 - Discussion - Spoilers

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess. :greenman:

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess.

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

ironcat wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Armchair psychology (just because we can)....

Ashley is being presented as a mess -- insecure, erratic, impulsive, obsessive, and walled off emotionally. She does not seem to be having any fun except in a scripted manner (saying what's socially expected about what is romantic, amazing, etc.).

Frankly? She seems to be a younger, female Brad Womack.... with the classic "daddy issues" exhibited by girls who were abandoned by fathers too young -- i.e., being impulsively/compulsively drawn to abusive inappropriate mates. Brad/Ashely's first date at the amusement park "clicked" for them because they could so deeply relate to the shared pain of a father who walked off the job.

As Ben F was describing his terrific father last night, I read (perhaps projected?!) the pain on her face that she DIDN'T have that. You don't see her transitioning to what a terrific mate Ben would make for HER because he had that. She does not seem to have done adequate processing of her own grief/anger/loss and until she is, she isn't ready to "pick" yet.

One could fantasize that the emotional roller coaster / "journey" of filming this dumb show is the equivalent of therapy, but that's not real. Half the dang season has passed, and she is not going to work it out in the next three weeks of filming.

It's funny, when watching that scene last night between Ben and Ashley and the father discussion, I remembered Brad and Chantal and thinking how much Brad needed Chantal's dad in his life. Ashley could use a dad like Ben's in her life, but you're right. She's not ready.

Gotta say I don't really understand why you say Ashley is "not ready"? She is trying to decide how interested she is in Ben, not his father (who btw, since he is sadly deceased, wouldn't be in her life in the flesh even if she chose Ben). I can certainly understand her feeling some personal pain/loss at hearing about anyone who had/has a wonderful relationship with their dad, since she never had that. But I don't see that reaction as evidence that she is running away from Ben because of it, anymore than it should be a reason that she should pursue him because of it. For all we know, many of the other guys have wonderful dads as well.

pavalygurl wrote:

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess.

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

Wow! No surprise that I see him so very differently. I think he is actually one of the most mature guys she has. He is in touch with his feelings and able to express them in an intelligent manner. He is going slowly...not good for this show, of course. But really good for a positive real life relationship.

jlccaz wrote:

ironcat wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Armchair psychology (just because we can)....

Ashley is being presented as a mess -- insecure, erratic, impulsive, obsessive, and walled off emotionally. She does not seem to be having any fun except in a scripted manner (saying what's socially expected about what is romantic, amazing, etc.).

Frankly? She seems to be a younger, female Brad Womack.... with the classic "daddy issues" exhibited by girls who were abandoned by fathers too young -- i.e., being impulsively/compulsively drawn to abusive inappropriate mates. Brad/Ashely's first date at the amusement park "clicked" for them because they could so deeply relate to the shared pain of a father who walked off the job.

As Ben F was describing his terrific father last night, I read (perhaps projected?!) the pain on her face that she DIDN'T have that. You don't see her transitioning to what a terrific mate Ben would make for HER because he had that. She does not seem to have done adequate processing of her own grief/anger/loss and until she is, she isn't ready to "pick" yet.

One could fantasize that the emotional roller coaster / "journey" of filming this dumb show is the equivalent of therapy, but that's not real. Half the dang season has passed, and she is not going to work it out in the next three weeks of filming.

It's funny, when watching that scene last night between Ben and Ashley and the father discussion, I remembered Brad and Chantal and thinking how much Brad needed Chantal's dad in his life. Ashley could use a dad like Ben's in her life, but you're right. She's not ready.

Gotta say I don't really understand why you say Ashley is "not ready"? She is trying to decide how interested she is in Ben, not his father (who btw, since he is sadly deceased, wouldn't be in her life in the flesh even if she chose Ben). I can certainly understand her feeling some personal pain/loss at hearing about anyone who had/has a wonderful relationship with their dad, since she never had that. But I don't see that reaction as evidence that she is running away from Ben because of it, anymore than it should be a reason that she should pursue him because of it. For all we know, many of the other guys have wonderful dads as well.

The Ben F moment is telling because I have received the magical power of being able to read the mind of reality TV characters from the safe perch of my Tempurpedic bed by staring at a very large Flat screen TV. This stuff just comes to me. [tongue in cheek emoticon]

ironcat wrote:

Alexxxx wrote:

jlccaz wrote:Armchair psychology (just because we can)....

Ashley is being presented as a mess -- insecure, erratic, impulsive, obsessive, and walled off emotionally. She does not seem to be having any fun except in a scripted manner (saying what's socially expected about what is romantic, amazing, etc.).

Frankly? She seems to be a younger, female Brad Womack.... with the classic "daddy issues" exhibited by girls who were abandoned by fathers too young -- i.e., being impulsively/compulsively drawn to abusive inappropriate mates. Brad/Ashely's first date at the amusement park "clicked" for them because they could so deeply relate to the shared pain of a father who walked off the job.

As Ben F was describing his terrific father last night, I read (perhaps projected?!) the pain on her face that she DIDN'T have that. You don't see her transitioning to what a terrific mate Ben would make for HER because he had that. She does not seem to have done adequate processing of her own grief/anger/loss and until she is, she isn't ready to "pick" yet.

One could fantasize that the emotional roller coaster / "journey" of filming this dumb show is the equivalent of therapy, but that's not real. Half the dang season has passed, and she is not going to work it out in the next three weeks of filming.

It's funny, when watching that scene last night between Ben and Ashley and the father discussion, I remembered Brad and Chantal and thinking how much Brad needed Chantal's dad in his life. Ashley could use a dad like Ben's in her life, but you're right. She's not ready.

Gotta say I don't really understand why you say Ashley is "not ready"? She is trying to decide how interested she is in Ben, not his father (who btw, since he is sadly deceased, wouldn't be in her life in the flesh even if she chose Ben). I can certainly understand her feeling some personal pain/loss at hearing about anyone who had/has a wonderful relationship with their dad, since she never had that. But I don't see that reaction as evidence that she is running away from Ben because of it, anymore than it should be a reason that she should pursue him because of it. For all we know, many of the other guys have wonderful dads as well.

agentcurls wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess.

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

Wow! No surprise that I see him so very differently. I think he is actually one of the most mature guys she has. He is in touch with his feelings and able to express them in an intelligent manner. He is going slowly...not good for this show, of course. But really good for a positive real life relationship.

I agree! Ben F is a gem....really, a majority of Ashley's men are.

agentcurls wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess.

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

Wow! No surprise that I see him so very differently. I think he is actually one of the most mature guys she has. He is in touch with his feelings and able to express them in an intelligent manner. He is going slowly...not good for this show, of course. But really good for a positive real life relationship.

I agree! Ben F is a gem....really, a majority of Ashley's men are.

agentcurls wrote:

pavalygurl wrote:

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess.

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

Wow! No surprise that I see him so very differently. I think he is actually one of the most mature guys she has. He is in touch with his feelings and able to express them in an intelligent manner. He is going slowly...not good for this show, of course. But really good for a positive real life relationship.

I agree! Ben F is a gem....really, a majority of Ashley's men are.

jlccaz wrote:

BlondieGal wrote:In reading the board last night many posters thought that there was very little if any chemistry between Ash and Ben F, and I agree. Ashley again pulled away from her kisses with Ben, and I wonder if one kiss was shown twice. Ben F seems a tad bit emotionally immature regarding relationships, although very sweet and kind. He seems like he is at the high school stage of his life with dating. He said that he was stuck in an emotional state after his father passed away, so perhaps that played into it. I don't know, something is off. I have no idea how he got to F2. Perhaps Ashley felt the safest around him in terms of the fantasy suite and last chance date. That is my only guess. :greenman:

Again, I have absolutely no favorites rather just my observations regarding the show. 8)

(a) I'm not seein' it with him (or anyone) for her either...he presented as sincere in all those PIs, but she didn't sell the words she was saying about him during hers, and she seems to have her mind somewhere else when he's opening up as I said above, and
(b) being fair to the whole picture, I suppose some weight could be given to fact of two other kisses (marketplace and away from the table on the evening portion of the date) shown in screencaps, but not aired as part of the episode.

Alexxxx wrote:
LOL, I really must not be expressing myself well today. I know Ben's dad is deceased -- that was the point of that whole conversation, right? What a great dad Ben had had for 24 solid years and now he's gone, but Ben has taken all the life lessons from that relationship and that prepared him for where he is now? yada yada

No, I'm not saying she's not ready as it pertains to Ben or any one of these guys particularly. I think she's just not ready emotionally for anybody. She needs to process her daddy-loss issues before she's ready to choose a partner. And that's not slamming Ashley. Everybody works out their 'stuff' on their own time schedule. Of the 25 guys there, I don't see what I would call a healthy relationship forming with any of them.

ironcat wrote:I could buy that in order to sell the idea that Ashley is still so hung up on Bentley, that she is unable to really feel chemistry with any of the other guys, the producers decided to cut out some of Ben's (and maybe other guys') steamier kisses with her. However, in Ben's case, if he is her F1, I really think it was an editing mistake to do so, because unless something really earth shattering happens next week with him, it is becoming less and less believable that either one fell for the other.