Andi Dorfman & Josh Murray - Bachelorette 10 - General Discussion #2

albean99 wrote:Not a fan of Josh as a lead. He seems like an okay guy but his speed talking turned me off as did the content. I'd like someone who can carry on a good discussion about something other than sports. Maybe I'm shortchanging Josh but haven't seen anything to change my mind as of yet. 

I know Andi will take a lot of heat and she's earned a lot of it but a relationship takes two and I doubt very much it's all on her. I said the same thing after Ali & Roberto broke up although am not comparing them. The main similarity I see is that Josh is getting sympathy as did Roberto. I like Roberto a lot but he's still not married (he & Ali are both in what seems to be serious relationships) so I'm not so sure he was ahead of her in wanting to get married & start a family. I'm not sure if Josh is either. 

I'm going to stick up for Ben. He got plenty of criticism during and after his season. He's now in a serious relationship with a very nice women and has clearly moved on from the Bachelor experience. No idea about Courtney other than what I saw the other day.

I agree with you 100%

albean99 wrote:Not a fan of Josh as a lead. He seems like an okay guy but his speed talking turned me off as did the content. I'd like someone who can carry on a good discussion about something other than sports. Maybe I'm shortchanging Josh but haven't seen anything to change my mind as of yet. 

I know Andi will take a lot of heat and she's earned a lot of it but a relationship takes two and I doubt very much it's all on her. I said the same thing after Ali & Roberto broke up although am not comparing them. The main similarity I see is that Josh is getting sympathy as did Roberto. I like Roberto a lot but he's still not married (he & Ali are both in what seems to be serious relationships) so I'm not so sure he was ahead of her in wanting to get married & start a family. I'm not sure if Josh is either. 

I'm going to stick up for Ben. He got plenty of criticism during and after his season. He's now in a serious relationship with a very nice women and has clearly moved on from the Bachelor experience. No idea about Courtney other than what I saw the other day.

Once again bean, I share your thoughts. While he has grown on me somewhat, I just don't see/want him as lead. IMHO I think he will do better in real life, meeting someone organically and letting a relationship develop more slowly.
I have not yet gotten to a place of sympathy for Andi, but I do not wish her ill. I just hope she uses this time as a learning and growth experience. I also think Ben has grown up a bit and made a good choice with Stephanie. And since I can't resist some snark, I thought Courtney was a bit out of her element at the premiere.

I am reading speculation of Josh and Andi possibly getting back together and just wanted to say from my own experience, my ex-husband and I broke up for six months before we got back together and got married less than two years later and also from watching Charlie and Sarah and their struggle with being together and then breaking up and getting back together.

If they resolve the issues that separated them then great, get back together, but if those issues aren't resolved this will just become a pattern. I have no idea, but I believe this happened because they want two very different things in their immediate future right now, and since I respect that they both have the right to want what they want, unless one of the two genuinely changes what they want, then for their sake I hope they don't make the mistake and that both Sarah and I made. It doesn't matter if you love someone and think you can be okay settling for what you are getting, in the long term it doesn't lead to happiness. It is far better to suffer the pain and find someone who really does want the same things that you do.

stuckinsc wrote:I am reading speculation of Josh and Andi possibly getting back together and just wanted to say from my own experience, my ex-husband and I broke up for six months before we got back together and got married less than two years later and also from watching Charlie and Sarah and their struggle with being together and then breaking up and getting back together.

If they resolve the issues that separated them then great, get back together, but if those issues aren't resolved this will just become a pattern.  I have no idea, but I believe this happened because they want two very different things in their immediate future right now, and since I respect that they both have the right to want what they want, unless one of the two genuinely changes what they want, then for their sake I hope they don't make the mistake and that both Sarah and I made.  It doesn't matter if you love someone and think you can be okay settling for what you are getting, in the long term it doesn't lead to happiness.  It is far better to suffer the pain and find someone who really does want the same things that you do.

Well said. I too unfortunately speak from personal experience that if two people want very different things, it will never work, no matter how hard you try.

stuckinsc wrote:I am reading speculation of Josh and Andi possibly getting back together and just wanted to say from my own experience, my ex-husband and I broke up for six months before we got back together and got married less than two years later and also from watching Charlie and Sarah and their struggle with being together and then breaking up and getting back together.

If they resolve the issues that separated them then great, get back together, but if those issues aren't resolved this will just become a pattern.  I have no idea, but I believe this happened because they want two very different things in their immediate future right now, and since I respect that they both have the right to want what they want, unless one of the two genuinely changes what they want, then for their sake I hope they don't make the mistake and that both Sarah and I made.  It doesn't matter if you love someone and think you can be okay settling for what you are getting, in the long term it doesn't lead to happiness.  It is far better to suffer the pain and find someone who really does want the same things that you do.

Out of all the couples that have split this one is the one I don't see getting back together. I just think it is wishful thinking from fans. If it is true Andi broke it off I don't see her going back just because she risked the wrath from the public by breaking up with Josh. She had the most to lose by this break up and for her to get to that point it really must have been bad. She must have wanted this to work to show the world and Nick ''Look, I made the right choice''. Now she has to go back somewhat ashamed and having to live with people criticizing her again and saying ''I told you so she is a piece of work''. Also Andi loved that engagement ring for her to give it back things must it have been bad between her and Josh.

notarose wrote:I think TPTB were aware that a break up announcement was eminent.

That's why:
1. There was no footage shown of Chris with Andy in Epi 1 (subtle disassociation; she suddenly became invisible). 
2. Andi & Josh were asked about fans in the mall (like Sean/Cat) and about wedding planning (like Marcus/Lacey) after the other couples.  Again a subtle tactic, this time of comparison by anyone viewing who choice to notice.

I even think Nick was told he might not want to attend (perhaps the reason was NOT accurately given).  TPTB did have to ok him giving his 2 interviews about the break up and the fact he was allowed to do so shows, me at least, that TPTB gave him positive consideration.  Giving the interviews stopped any speculation about him.  No dragging through the mud by media via speculation and allowed him to disassociate from their situation. All wrapped up and tied with a bow.  Also, nothing for media to grab on to inorder to enhance or keep the break up story going... no secondary storyline. 

And we also have Momma Murray nipping any speculation of a reconciliation in the bud in very timely fashion - wise to end before marriage is as final as it gets. Loss of another media storyline. 

I also think TPTB may use a form of shunning for this break up case.  By that I mean they will sweep it under the carpet as quickly as possible... not very different from how they gave so little time to Andi/Josh at the ATFR and never showed a highlight clip of their love story either. I do think Andi/Josh, during their relationship, were given noticeable less opportunity than many previous couples which signals to me that TPTB were just counting down the minutes or for whatever reason chose not to invest much or often.  If one or both do seek the limelight then shunning is like a power outage.. 

Yep, I think it will be an "out of sight, out of mind" spin so that the focus can return to Chris' love journey, Des & Chris' wedding (even though they are doing this on their own dollar), and Marcus & Lacey's planning. The interview with Nikki F. put that season to rest so now the focus will likely be squarely on the future of the happy couples..

NR, I like your suggestion/evidence that TPTB were supportive of Nick... even if it was circumstantial.
I would assume the winning couple would normally be their first priority at the expense of F2...
But the fact that Nick benefited makes me smile!

mindless wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

mindless wrote:
That bothered me too in all their interviews. It's like she was trying hard to show everyone how in tune they are with their cute little banter about his failings. It's only really cute in private though, if that, not in front of strangers and cameras. Just came across as thoughtless and mean. I hope she wasn't like that in front of his friends and family too. I can imagine that getting old fast.    

It's something she certainly likes to do to people. She would tease Marcus about how shy he was and she would do it to Nick and always say something about him stuttering or stumbling over his words.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me. I guess she's more concerned about showing the world how funny she is than about not making people feel uncomfortable. Not a fan of people like that. If you really love someone then should care more about how they might feel than about putting on a show. I certainly wouldn't like my boyfriend pointing out to everyone I chew with my mouth open, even if I did. But that's just one of the many reasons I never really bought Andi's great love for Josh. She was trying way too hard to convince everyone of it. Speaking from experience, once you know you really love someone, you don't care what anyone else thinks. All that matters is that you know you love them and they know it. I mean look at Des and Chris. Everyone was doubting her love for him, because she clearly fell for Brooks during the show, but did she try to desperately prove her feelings? Maybe I've forgotten already, but it certainly didn't seem that way. They just went on with their lives being happy together. Andi on the other hand was trying to sell the perfect fairytale hard. I think that's why she still can't stand the sight of Nick, because he ruined the perfect image she was trying to portray. It didn't matter to her that it wasn't actually perfect at all, she just wanted so badly for everyone to think so. It was all about appearances. She already started rewriting history during the proposal, which BTW sounded so acted it was unreal to me. I really don't see how anyone can take anything she said in interviews seriously, especially after how professionally she lied to everyone's faces on Monday. She says whatever is convenient for her at the time. What she's actually thinking? Lord knows. I'm not sure she even knows.

Sell it to the public and sell it to herself... I never saw her truly vulnerable or really fall in love; it all felt like strategy to me.

GuardianAngel wrote:I don't think there's any difference between who gets more sympathy votes be it a male or female lead.

Ali at the time was well loved/ fame seeking, compared to Roberto who wanted to really fall in love get married and have a family.

There are plenty of male leads who when they split were vilified.
Brad for choosing no one. The Prince was such a goof, everyone just wanted to forget him. Jason Mesnick, and the list goes on.

Josh is getting the majority of support from fans, because  Andi is plain and simple a nasty fake wannabe actress. JMHO.

Don't sugar coat it GA.

They were probably broken up before the line up of the attendees on the Rose float was announced.

mindless wrote:

Ash2214 wrote:

mindless wrote:
That bothered me too in all their interviews. It's like she was trying hard to show everyone how in tune they are with their cute little banter about his failings. It's only really cute in private though, if that, not in front of strangers and cameras. Just came across as thoughtless and mean. I hope she wasn't like that in front of his friends and family too. I can imagine that getting old fast.    

It's something she certainly likes to do to people. She would tease Marcus about how shy he was and she would do it to Nick and always say something about him stuttering or stumbling over his words.

Ugh, thanks for reminding me. I guess she's more concerned about showing the world how funny she is than about not making people feel uncomfortable. Not a fan of people like that. If you really love someone then should care more about how they might feel than about putting on a show. I certainly wouldn't like my boyfriend pointing out to everyone I chew with my mouth open, even if I did. But that's just one of the many reasons I never really bought Andi's great love for Josh. She was trying way too hard to convince everyone of it. Speaking from experience, once you know you really love someone, you don't care what anyone else thinks. All that matters is that you know you love them and they know it. I mean look at Des and Chris. Everyone was doubting her love for him, because she clearly fell for Brooks during the show, but did she try to desperately prove her feelings? Maybe I've forgotten already, but it certainly didn't seem that way. They just went on with their lives being happy together. Andi on the other hand was trying to sell the perfect fairytale hard. I think that's why she still can't stand the sight of Nick, because he ruined the perfect image she was trying to portray. It didn't matter to her that it wasn't actually perfect at all, she just wanted so badly for everyone to think so. It was all about appearances. She already started rewriting history during the proposal, which BTW sounded so acted it was unreal to me. I really don't see how anyone can take anything she said in interviews seriously, especially after how professionally she lied to everyone's faces on Monday. She says whatever is convenient for her at the time. What she's actually thinking? Lord knows. I'm not sure she even knows.

I've been trying to figure out why Andi has bugged me for a while now. Sometimes you just have a sense but, can't quite put your finger on it. To me Andi has always been about the appearances and that is why she came off as fake. She was always trying to convince others. First that she is this tough, in charge, take no nonsense ADA...hence, we get the blowout at JPab. Later that she has this perfect, great love with Josh and she is now this warm, sweet, Susie homemaker. Sucks to be Nick because he ruined the vision she was trying to portray.

In my experience, when someone is all about appearances, they are lost and insecure about who they really are. Part of me feels sorry for Andi because she really has no clue. She seems to have been spoiled, protected and never really held accountable for her actions. Unfortunately, she does not seem to have learned to deal with failure and adversity. Tough as those are to go through, they are learning opportunities and an integral part of growing up. Take those opportunities away and you end up with someone who cannot deal with criticism of any kind and who lashes out at anyone who dares question them. That is why I feel for people who buy into her BS and hold her up as a role model. Just because she says she is those things and is wrapped up in a pretty package, doesn't mean that is the reality. Actions always speak louder than words and to me, her actions always screamed. Nick on the other hand, in good times and bad, to me, just seemed to own who he was. He took the attacks from the other guys while on the show, from Andi and the media post show. He acknowledged his faults, learned from them and then moved on. I think it was that ability to own his actions that brought me around on him since I was not initially a fan. Eventually, there comes a point where you just can't keep up appearances any longer...by the way, great show from the BBC...and your true self is exposed to the world. Nick seems fine with that...Andi does not.

[quote="Sprite"][quote="mindless"][quote="Ash2214"]

TA. I went from not being a Nick fan to jumping aboard the Nick chick wagon specifically because of the way he handled himself after that excruciating ATFR.

Wow! I think I am still a big fan of Josh but I keep seeing these pictures of woman posting from this advocate event things like having lunch with my man or this is why Andi and josh broke up because he is with me. YUK I know it comes with the publicity but having so many woman throwing themselves at Josh all the time would have bothered me. I mean come on ladies we say we could handle it but really. Watching woman try to rub up next to ur man and everything else. I guess I must be a jealous wife myself. Although I don't think my husband would have put me through that (when he was alive). I don't know I  think we could probably tell Andi was a little spoiled but don't you think josh could to. She told josh on their fantasy suite date she could be difficult and he said he could handle it and she no I really can be difficult. I really believe she was trying to warn him so he would know what he was getting himself into.  With her being an ADA she has to have a strong personality.(fighting bad guys you have to be tough)now do I think she could have softer yes I do. The Hollywood life saying josh wanted to be the next bachelor well they are also the one who said Andi and josh wanted babies before they got married.(per the Nov. 11 interview)Andi even asked where that came from and when he said Hollywood life her and josh said well there you go. In other words don't believe everything you read. You know they both had faults, but iI wish they would not have traveled so much the last couple months and just lived a normal couples life. One minute I'm a josh fan then I'm an Andi fan but pointing out all the things Andi has lost like its a good thing I guess in my nature. Oh yes the lady who did the sjmagazine article described Andi as feisty and josh gregarious(social) but she said they were great together to watch and josh even favorites that comment on his way to hang out with chad in Athens one Friday nite. Yes I think they still love each other that kind of love doesn't come often as I can say BC I had that kind of love with my husband before he passed away which I'm sure a lot of us can say. Oh one more thing josh has been in the public eye with his baseball, his brother and all and Andi never had. He even made a nice comment about that with Andi because he was used to it and she wasn't. Oh well who am I to judge. I certainly have made many a mistake in my life for sure. Sorry so long and I hope I don't make anyone upset with me.

Oh my just read my last statement. I hope I don't make anyone upset with me! I don't want to make anyone mad. So very sorry again!