Bachelorette 15 - Hannah Brown - General Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #2

Julie81 wrote:I don’t think think the spoiler is wrong but something is up for sure.

I think their date was special and it showed their connection. I didn’t think it was a great date because it was so short and they were on horses but I still enjoyed it. I wish I hadn’t watched it though because when they don’t end up together, I’m going to be devastated all over again. I just can’t help myself though. I just have to watch them.  

. YES, me too

North wrote:

I love me some Tyler -- but Hannah Banana always had her sights on Luke and Jed and then Peter IMO. Tyler had the late start, battled her preconceived "player" ideas, and was a total dark horse. That he really championed her thoughout the season, might come as a surprise to her watching it back.

I agree. Her focus for a long time was with Luke. Since the beginning. I think she got stuck on this FIR trend for the past seasons that she was trying so hard to make it work. That women make their choice and that's it. I don't blame her because that first night Luke came with his A game. Hannah wanted to be chosen and he clearly was so into her but not organically, more psychotically (if that's even a word ). She got stuck with him and no one had a chance. Jed was the 2nd best because he kept singing and no one probaby serenaded her like that. Like Luke, he did exert extra effort. Coming out to see her and serenading her. Who wouldn't fall in love with someone like that if we didn't know about the hidden GF. Peter would have been the third because of their physical connection but after hometowns, Tyler must have edged Peter a bit for Tyler to be F2.

She must be kicking herself after watching because of how sociopathic Luke is when he's not with her and Jed the master manipulator with the hidden GF. Tyler is the only one standing up for her every single time. He chose her every day but not overtly. He truly had her back and she didn't see that. SAD.

Okay I will be in the minority.
After cooling off from all the hype from past week, I personally am off the Hannah - Tyler train too. Not because he would be her third choice as I don’t really see it like that; I believe if two people end up together genuinely happy, it doesn’t really matter how they found their ways to each other. I will be extremely happy and proud of her if she dumped that manipulative bumhead, I will admire her strength to not get this public scrutiny get too much under her skin and stay true to herself - but that’s about it. It has nothing to do with religion nor gender, so please don’t compare this to other male contestants who seem to get a pass while women get the criticism; I’m talking more about self love. Her picks of the likes of Luke and Jed implies she accepts this kind of love she thinks she deserves. And while I agree Jed completely weaseled his way to the end, Luke was the prime example of obvious red flags that she chose to excuse until she eventually didn’t. I haven’t watched the episode and while it would be an absolute fairytale if Tyler and Hannah ended up together, I am holding an unpopular opinion that they are emotionally on completely different pages - at least right now.

*snipped

limoncello wrote:Okay I will be in the minority.
she eventually didn’t. I haven’t watched the episode and while it would be an absolute fairytale if Tyler and Hannah ended up together, I am holding an unpopular opinion that they are emotionally on completely different pages - at least right now.

I would totally agree with you and that's why I think Hannah and Tyler were a good match. Or someone like Tyler. He's very in tune with himself and his needs, balanced and even-keeled emotionally -- where she is not. He'd be a good balance for her. I mean, girl is still swooning over no-talent, white guys with guitars and a manipulative, possessive, narcissistic man/boy who claims to be a Christian.

Based on the pictures alone, their date -- like all dates -- was edited down but I thought their conversations were good (most real parental divorce discussion on the show ever). Also, I think her grilling might be the start of the he "can't commit" storyline. Even though Tyler is super hot -- to date -- baby-faced Peter definitely has been getting the physical edit -- which probably surprised the heck out of the producers.

And don't forget Jed said he was falling in love with her LAST episode. So he's way ahead of Peter and Tyler but not sure if he's ahead of Luke. I still say Tyler was a surprise to her -- would love to when he surpassed Peter.

I don’t know. I really liked her date with Tyler last night. For the first part, they rode horses around the town, so that’s not really going to make riveting television for us.

I loved the evening portion and I loved that she wanted more from him. It shows me that she cares and she’s interested. She was listening to every word and I loved how when Tyler was talking about his dad coming from nothing, she responded with “mine too.” They can relate to each other. They’re the only couple this season where they seem to be equals in their communication and they have in depth conversations. It was enjoyable to watch and then of course she’s draped all over him in their carriage ride at the end of the date. 

I’m not blind to see that Jed definitey pulled her in and she fell for him (he’s also giving her more in terms of stating his feelings versus Tyler), but she seems to genuinely like and care about Tyler too. I would imagine that will continue to grow and we’ll see that by the end of the season.

Watching the show knowing the outcome is so different. I definitely noticed a change in the edit last night. They are giving Tyler the final 1 edit even though he is not final 1. I bet they are leaving a lot on the cutting room floor with Jed too. He seemed like a bump on the log during their date. Almost like a robot. Deadpan Jed! No emotions or very little (at least that is what they showed). Peter is getting the final 2 edit even though he leaves final 3. And not sure about Luke. She clearly liked him or wanted him around and thought he could be final 1. It’s like she wants him to be. The confession of love to Jed prob would have been cut out if they were going with a traditional final 1 edit. They would have hidden Jed more or at least Hannah’s feelings for him especially this early. Saved the emotional confessions for last chance date or even fantasy date.

Watching the show knowing the outcome is so different. I definitely noticed a change in the edit last night. They are giving Tyler the final 1 edit even though he is not final 1. I bet they are leaving a lot on the cutting room floor with Jed too. He seemed like a bump on the log during their date. Almost like a robot. Deadpan Jed! No emotions or very little (at least that is what they showed). Peter is getting the final 2 edit even though he leaves final 3. And not sure about Luke. She clearly liked him or wanted him around and thought he could be final 1. It’s like she wants him to be. The confession of love to Jed prob would have been cut out if they were going with a traditional final 1 edit. They would have hidden Jed more or at least Hannah’s feelings for him especially this early. Saved the emotional confessions for last chance date or even fantasy date.

I am still 50/50 if there will be rekindling. Waiting to watch some feet this weekend and to see next weeks show.

Regarding sex in the windmill. I think the first round occurs during the day part of the date (sex in windmill) then the we did it again, we did it twice....the second round happens in the FS that night. My gut is it’s Jed but I would love for it to be Tyler or Peter, knowing she was also with Jed. Jed is coming across very bland but I think they cut their more passionate scenes like kissing on the piano. All iMO.

^^^^sorry for the double post.

Well I am (fact) in the minority of the minority but here are my thoughts after last night episode.  

I am in the sleuthing mode, not a fan mode. However, here are my thoughts about the SM mess I read all over...I said from the start that I liked Jed and Tyler but I thought Hannah would pick Jed. I disagree to trash Jed and calling names because I do not know YET his version. I want to hear it before making my own judgment. Right now, for me, he just seems to be like many contestants before him and had flings BEFORE meeting Hannah. He seems to have been a big jerk with 2 girls and those 2 girls now claim that he said and/or promise things... although I clearly read that Jed told Haley that he did not see their fling/relationship going anywhere... My final answer to that is: it takes 2 to tango. And because he is not the beloved wanted F1, does not mean he is a horrible human being. IMO, he is just the average guy who goes to bars to pick up girls who also go to bars to be picked up. He may have met those 2 elsewhere but you got my idea. OF COURSE he could have lied (so far again, we do not know his version so ~I~ will not judge him yet), then he was a big azzhole.

This said, his past is his past. I am almost certain that for Jed, those were flings and he had no intention to have a serious commitment with those 2 girls. Do I approve of him? HECK NO! (CAPITAL BOLD LETTERS!). But for me, I do see a guy who truly fell in love with Hannah. I see it, right on my screen and from day 1. ... But I also see Hannah torn with Luke and the fairytale she had to find a Christian southern husband. I do see also the physical attraction for Peter and Tyler.

I still like Hannah. I did not change my mind when Tyler was spoiled F1 and when Jed turns out to be the new F1. Whatever her choice, it is HER journey and whatever her final choice, she is the same person.  She is imperfect, shows all her emotions on her face, decided to explore more because overall she spent only a few hours with each guys and she did not have the opportunity to know them well enough. WE got the edited version. SHE got the hours here and there and the drama. ... So yes, I still like her. I have a different approach of faith but this is very personal as she mentioned and therefore I am fine with her choices.

I have the feeling that Hannah is stubborn. I think it truly will be a miracle if she is still with Jed after the finale. Then again, Jed's father words are coming back to me (not verbatim): true love will be proven with no camera around and back in normal life. We'll see. But this social media backlash is not helping those 2 people who, I THINK, genuinely fell in love with each other. too fragile, too new, way too much negativity around Jed. IMO

Back to sleuthing or just sharing my opinion on last night episode 8:

1. Garrett is a jerk. I did not like him from start and it was confirmed the last episode. He knew IMO his time was up and he was very bitter about it. Hannah did not want to kiss him like her top 4. That was plainly obvious to me. So Garett decided to push all Luke's buttons. That was petty and childish. How long did they stay in this stupid room forced by the prods so they could inevitably get their drama??

2. Garnett was not upset he got rejected at all. He was totally pissed off that Luke was picked and not him. Hannah had nothing to do in the equation. Garrett is the kind of guy I would name "player" "liar" "womanizer". And if we did not hear about any girl about him, does not mean it never happened. This is MY gut feeling about Garret. He makes me wince. So long to BIP to see you your true nature IMO! But who knows... maybe he IS an angel on earth eh?

3. So we did not see Hannah saying to Tyler: "yesss this is what I want to hear". Interesting though. Out of contest, we can believe that he was the one and she desperately wanted him to say the words... when in fact, we saw more conversation and she told him she wanted him to open up. So his words that we heard in the teaser were just him to open up to her and she was happy that he did. Very different meaning IMO

4. sorry not sorry to boast it but I am happy I sleuthed Jed with the mysterious man (beauty grain)  

5. not on last night episode but it was interesting that Hannah and Jed kissed in the middle of the market few meters away from the other guys (including Tyler) and one had to remind them that it was a group date... If she cared for any of those guys and one of them was her F1, she would not have kissed him in front of them IMO. MY opinion.

6. Hannah opened up and clearly considered Jed as her boyfriend and she was his girlfriend. Only Peter asked her but the idea did not come from herself. So far I did not hear her talking that way with any other. And it was the 2nd time she mentioned that she envisioned a good life with Jed. (still in sleuthing mode here)

7. It is interesting that prods decided to spoil Luke's departure. because IMO he is coming back as RS spoiled. I do not have changed my mind about Luke. I still think he should never have been in this show. I have seen very hurtful tweets yesterday and I believe nobody deserves that.

Finally, I do not think Hannah had a change of heart. I think, however, Tyler is a good friend. I think they had sex at FD and this also creates a bond. I do not think Hannah and Tyler is a good match. I would not mind seeing him or Peter the next bachelor but considering his new NYC celebrities agent he just signed, I think he will pursue his career there and good for him! I hope he will distance himself from this franchise but maybe not. Being the lead will bring him much exposure for his career. Who knows where his heart is right now? Wish him the best, he seems a good dude.

There. Back in the reading forum mode.



ALL is MY opinion.

Tiggerlgh wrote:Regarding sex in the windmill.  I think the first round occurs during the day part of the date (sex in windmill) then the we did it again, we did it twice....the second round happens in the FS that night.  My gut is it’s Jed but I would love for it to be Tyler or Peter, knowing she was also with Jed.  Jed is coming across very bland but I think they cut their more passionate scenes like kissing on the piano.  All iMO.  

Regardless of who it is or if it even happened, so far we can’t match Jed’s FS daytime SC to a windmill. Jed’s FS night time portion was at a a hotel in Elounda, Crete (matched up in SC thread). With the way producers cut a portion of some dates out from what we saw in the season promo preview, they may not even show anything regarding a windmill; IMO producers wanted to keep viewers focused on this upcoming Hannah/Luke showdown and it’s working by adding the windmill convo.....jmho.

@HEA I think stubbornness is a factor as well.
At first I thought Hannah was just being determined to get Luke to open up by asking him questions and sticking to her first impression of him but then it did appeared to transform into a long stubborn streak. Hannah stubbornly continued to hang on to an image in her head she had created of them as a couple. Stubborn when the other guys weren’t seeing things her way regarding Luke. The guys telling her negative things about Luke just made her dig her heels in deeper. Even have a few wee tantrums, like a child who does the opposite to prove others wrong or is fixated on being right or really really wants something and won’t listen to reason. She set her mind and closed off new information that didn’t fit what she wanted and road her fixation; stayed in her lane driving full speed even as the gas gauge emptied instead of taking pit stops to refresh and re-evaluate.