Bachelor 25 - Matt James - Media SM - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

There are a number of harmful stereotypes about black people that some are not aware of. Here are a few things to avoid saying and believing:

Black people are too loud

She’s an angry black woman

Black men are dangerous & violent

He/she is so well-spoken, articulate, etc. (eta: to clarify, this one assumes they are the exception)

Natural black hair is unprofessional

If you don’t understand why these are harmful stereotypes then please google it. Here’s an article with a lot more stereotypes to avoid about black women: 47 Stereotypes Black Women Are Tired of Hearing

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Caption: Angry. Independent. Loud. Aggressive. Demanding. Overachieving. Financially successful. Emasculating.

Eta: many of us were taught that people are either racist or not racist. we agreed that racism is wrong so we saw ourselves as not racist. the truth is there is a lot of space between those two poles of racist and not racist and that is where unconscious bias resides.

it’s not fun confronting our own biases but we need to be brave and do so. we can’t allow our discomfort with the process to stop us from doing the work of learning and growing. none of us has arrived, we all have areas where we need to improve, and it is not a sprint but a marathon.

some of you might be wondering what “white fragility” is. here’s an excerpt from a good article:

“In more than twenty years of running diversity-training and cultural-competency workshops for American companies, the academic and educator Robin DiAngelo has noticed that white people are sensationally, histrionically bad at discussing racism. Like waves on sand, their reactions form predictable patterns: they will insist that they “were taught to treat everyone the same,” that they are “color-blind,” that they “don’t care if you are pink, purple, or polka-dotted.” They will point to friends and family members of color, a history of civil-rights activism, or a more “salient” issue, such as class or gender. They will shout and bluster. They will cry. In 2011, DiAngelo coined the term “white fragility” to describe the disbelieving defensiveness that white people exhibit when their ideas about race and racism are challenged—and particularly when they feel implicated in white supremacy. Why, she wondered, did her feedback prompt such resistance, as if the mention of racism were more offensive than the fact or practice of it?” A Sociologist Examines the “White Fragility” That Prevents White Americans from Confronting Racism

personally, i think the resistance she speaks of is due to using the term ‘racist’ toward anyone. no one wants to be called a racist because they know it is bad, very bad and subsequently feel a lot of shame. for this reason i sometimes find it more helpful to use the term ‘unconscious bias’. it gives people a bit of space to examine themselves without the toxic guilt. racism is not an either/or. there are different types of racism that many if not most of us have inadvertently  engaged in.

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Jolena wrote:

Eagle Eye wrote:

Jolena wrote:Oh I get it,  it's "brilliant" now to watch someone who you were suppose to be friends with and care about , and had fairly close interaction with to let them destroy their career without pulling them aside and educating them and helping them to recognizing their faults or mistakes. Got it. With friends like that who needs enemies. jmo

Wait, are you blaming Rachel for Chris potentially tanking his career because he couldn't keep his racism in check? IMO that's completely unfair. I'm not really sure what you wanted her to do in that situation -- was she supposed to literally stop the interview to have an educational chat with him? IMO his racism and misogyny were both on full display in the way he talked down to Rachel, cut her off and was generally a condescending jerk to someone he claims is a close friend. Rachel said they spoke after the interview and Chris thought it went really well and clearly didn't see anything wrong with anything he'd said. It seems that he's fully shown his true colours and if he loses his job over this I won't feel the least bit sorry for him.

I would feel sorry for him and for anyone else, because nobody deserves to lose their job, he apologized , everyone deserves a 2nd chance and forgiveness. Everyone makes mistakes . There will be no one to cast on any shows if their going to have to start vetting people way back to their teen years now. This cancel culture IMO is dangerous. JMO

This was Chris showing the world exactly who he is. His ‘mistake’ was that, unlike his prior instances of letting his racism & misogyny seep through in interviews, he not only doubled & tripled down, he went all-in. He treated Rachel in a despicable, disrespectful manner—he’s NO friend to her. People absolutely deserve to lose their jobs & he most assuredly does. How is a black person supposed to work with Chris knowing that he thinks parties celebrating the days their ancestors were enslaved were fine & dandy in 2018 (5 years ago when 24-year old Rachel was 18 & 50M people attended)? Like Rachel said, what would I be at that party? He’ll be fine & won’t have to interrupt his golf game to tell us when he’s down to one rose.

What’s to feel sorry about? He didn’t lose anything, he’s still got his millions. Plus he still the executive producer of all these shows; Bachelor/Ette, BIP...

I’m sure he’s just stepping aside until it’s time to film the next bachelorette. Maybe with his free time he can pick up a book and learn something instead of hitting the links.

IMO, CH will be just fine.

I've been back and forth on Rachel at times but I'm firmly on her side on this. It's not up to her to educate Chris nor is it any fault of hers that he's stepping down (temporarily or not). He, of all people, knows how to handle himself in an interview yet he allowed his feelings to take over. That's on him and he has to pay the consequences. I wasn't surprised that he thought that way but was by how he treated Rachel by how he talked to and talked over her.

Rachel's always been the go-to for the show in any racial matters since she was the 1st POC as lead and I'm sure that's tiring. I don't blame her a bit if she moves on from the franchise but I also don't have a problem if she did host the ATFR. I'm not sure that she wants that.

CH has had 50 years to educate himself, and as Rachel said in the Don Lemon interview, he has dealt with racist cast members, including a F1 for a few years. Did he not take the time to educate himself during those times and realize there were problems?

If it wasn't for Rachel L for standing up for the rights of POC this franchise would IMO continue doing what they do best, cast people like Rachel for drama, not giving any thought to who it is really impacting. IMO any compassionate and passionate person like Rachel L who feels they have a duty to use their platform to help get the message across there are severe racial injustices. Those who don't listen are part of the problem, like CH IMHO. He's the only one that ruined his career and by RL letting him ramble on with such loud passion, yelling, that apparently Rachel isn't suppose to display, showed his true colours. The other scenario I've was thinking, maybe he was told by the TPTB to stick up for Rachel, (which would be even worse if he didn't stand up to them) but then when I actually watched the whole interview, no, he was speaking on behalf his beliefs. IMO



@Idlemess I think this is what you were trying to post?

Chris Harrison, host of more than 25 seasons across "The Bachelor" franchise, steps aside after facing criticism for his comments about a contestant's racially insensitive social media posts.

Rachel Lindsay, a former 'Bachelorette,' joins CNN's @DonLemon to discuss. pic.twitter.com/F6RB1Z4zAX

— CNN Tonight (@CNNTonight) February 16, 2021

https://twitter.com/CNNTonight

Jolena wrote:

Emeralds wrote:

Jolena wrote:Never was a fan of Rachel Lindsey AT ALL. I think This show that many of us enjoyed for 20 yrs is in its final days. I don't see it surviving especially with CH leaving so abruptly (and how the producers are more interested in Drama & ruining people's lives) .  Will be interesting to see who they get to fill his seat at ATFR and moving forward. IF it's Rachel I will no longer be watching. Nobody would even know who Rachel L was if she wasen't given the opportunity to be a lead on this show, there were many other WOC who would've made a great lead before Rachel (Tashia being one of them,) Tashia has more class in her pinky then Rachel Lindsey. Tashia is soft spoken, pretty,sweet, smart and classy. Rachel imo not at all. Rachel got what she wanted out of this show ( husband, TV show fame, IG followers ect) and now she waste no time to bite the hand that fed her. I agree with LoveDovez it all went to her head. JMO

If you want the status quo, “sweet” and “soft spoken’ will achieve that, oh, and let’s worry about “pretty” too. Rachel remained poised as Chris spewed 14 minutes of racist vileness, which was brilliant because she let Chris destroy his career & reputation all on his own. Rachel acknowledged all the franchise has given to her on Higher Learning the other day. Is she expected to remain tied to a racist, misogynistic franchise forever? IMO, Rachel hasn’t let anything go to her head, she’s trying to use her platform to make a difference in the world rather than shilling FabFitFun boxes like most of these folks.

Oh I get it,  it's "brilliant" now to watch someone who you were suppose to be friends with and care about , and had fairly close interaction with to let them destroy their career without pulling them aside and educating them and helping them to recognizing their faults or mistakes. Got it. With friends like that who needs enemies. jmo

 Regarding the bolded, Rachael has ALWAYS let TPTB (this include CH) know about its racist behaviors.  They chose not to do much about it.  It took the reaction to George Floyd's death for them to cast their first Black male lead.  I realize that you don't like Rachael, and that's your choice; but, to make it seem like Rachael is the one that is bringing down CH's career is just wrong period,

Black women who speaks up as Rachel has always seems to get the “loud, angry, trying to start some trouble” treatment IMO it’s the same as saying “she doesn’t know her place”

SO, here’s a question. Is it the messenger or the message that has folks “upset” ?

I think both Rachel L and Chris H could have handled the interview differently. Chris H was representing the producers/network etc - so he should have been more careful in what he said, regardless of how he felt personally. In my opinion - from what I have read over the years - Rachel has been upset for a long time. She has sounded hurt and angry to me for quite a while. She has now found a platform for expressing that hurt - and this is all fine. Perhaps if there had been more patience on both their parts - more give and take - more kindness - then there could have been a better outcome to the interview. Maybe more learned and less resented. I don't pretend to know everything that has gone on betw Chris H and Rachel L - but she did meet her husband through the program - and I believe Chris H married the couple in a wedding paid for by the franchise. It seems a shame that the outcome of all of that - had to be this. Right or wrong - we are all learning - and we all have made mistakes - and it takes time. The producers - and Chris H are certainly entitled to feel the way they do - and produce the show they want to produce imo. And Rachel is certainly entitled to feel the way she does. Chris H grew up in a different time (he's 25 yrs older than most contestants) - and in a particular area of the US. I am in no way excusing the attitudes - maybe those attitudes are not right - or not fair - but change takes time. Sometimes a lot of time. Chris' mistake was letting his personal feelings be aired publicly in behalf of a show. But I wonder what the purpose of the interview was. Rachael K's past was discovered. Maybe the franchise knew - most likely they did. Rachael K and others live in our country ... I personally don't agree with her past views (whatever they are now) but watching the show I have gotten no indication of her views on the show so I haven't been offended. Should she not be allowed to be on the show ? Is it not up to Matt to decide who he thinks he wants? Is it Chris H's - or Rachel L's for that matter - position to take a stand on Rachel's apparent views ? The show seems to be showcasing several nasty girls - who are assuming/accusing/calling out and trying to get others to join in with them. Alot of us are tired of seeing all the bickering and hatred. Why is the issue betw Chris H and Rachel L occurring now - outside the show ? Haven't we had enough ? Chris H - in my opinion - has been a great part to the franchise. We've had our laughts about his pre-set comments every episodes but he has served as the on show confidant and helped contestants see the error of their ways on the ATFR show. He has seemed to celebrate the love when it happens. He has seemed to be well - liked. I personally hope he will be back.

Your "Bachelor" recap now up at: https://t.co/89K29ILCE5 incl a breakdown of the last week in Bachelor Nation, Chris Harrison, and where do we go from here? Enjoy...

— RealitySteve (@RealitySteve) February 16, 2021

https://twitter.com/RealitySteve/status/1361741008741031944?s=20

I agree that CH showed us who he really is. The longer he talked the less it became about Rachael and the show, and more about himself and his disdain for anti-racism. I got the impression that this is how he normally talks when he is with friends.
Btw, what does the toppling of statues in San Francisco have to do with anything?

Basically he just lost it, and I don’t think he regrets what he expressed, only that he didn’t keep it to himself.
I really hope that they don’t bring him back as a “new reformed” version of himself. IMO he can’t change any more than Garrett Y could.

I dislike Rachel for a number of things she has said over the years, but when it comes to race issues and the demand for diversity, I fully support her and I think she has done a great job (including how she handled that interview). I think both she and Tayshia could handle ATFR, but it would still be better if they asked an experienced host or news anchor from the network.
All JMO

Maybe Robin Roberts or TJ Holmes from GMA can host the ATFR... if that’s what they want at the network