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Post by kimberlyg Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:19 pm

Brief thoughts:
1) Still #TeamJordan, but he got another night of a mediocre edit. Ugh, I hate TPTB.

2) I really hate Alex. He's a little snit. I like how one second he trashes Jordan and the next he's his BFF. He really just trashes everyone behind their backs and is pretty much getting the guys to go after each other. Part of me wishes he went instead of Chad. REALLY DISLIKE.

3) I still like Derek. He seems like a good dude, and that wasn't a pity rose. Usually when the lead wants to give someone reassurance it means that the lead likes that person. And Chase acting like an *** in that scene with Alex made me like Chase a lot less.

4) I'd still put Luke as the frontrunner and now Robby very close behind. That said, Luke got a "who?" edit tonight and Robby got a really really good edit and has finally pulled out from being a MOT.

5) OMGZ THAT PREVIEW LOOKS INSANE. I don't know who that is at what looks like the FRC or what happens but seriously WTF WTF WTF. I don't even think screencaps could help figure that one at this point. (As to the rest of it, it looks like there is a second 2-on-1 with Derek/Chase; that the scene of Jordan in the leather jacket from the season preview where JoJo questions him is from next week; and Wells gets a 1-on-1).

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Post by veg_out Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:20 am

^Ugh, I'm ready to throw in the towel with this season. After tonight, I want JoJo to walk away alone.
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Post by Litta123 Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:38 am

Yeah, veg, it's starting to feel like a disaster. I wonder if she had her heart set on someone (Jordan) and her brothers (or other family members) talked her out of it. It doesn't even feel like she's in love with anyone else...just the guy that she is turning down...so now what?


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Post by veg_out Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:50 am

Yeah, Litta, I need to see it again, but is this mess just to distract from Jordan as F1? Unless it's salvaged next week, Chase seems like he's heading downhill fast, but he had a ton of camera pans tonight about love and being a good guy.

What confounds me: If Luke goes out at F4 like some are predicting, and Chase goes out at F3 (he had a PI in Thailand tonight, I think), then Jojo has taken bad boys to the finale, Robby and Jordan. Even GMA is advertising them as such. If JoJo is at the RC basically turning down a guy she loves b:c he can't love her the way she needs, then we're to assume that she gets over the bad boy complex, right? That's her past! But she only has bad boys left! So I hope she chooses herself! Like that will happen.
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Post by MiaHawk Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:02 am

Holy Crap! Before I get to tonight's episode I'd like to mention 2 commercials that aired during tonight's show.

1) Chad is going to be on BIP?! Wow, so I'm supposed to believe that Chad is a true danger to others after they just cast him on another show? Just goes to prove how tptb edit everything for drama. I rewatched all of the episodes prior to tonight's show, and I must tell you that some of what Chad was saying was true. There are a lot of alphas in that group who need to feel like top dog, but they come across as whiny b****es. Many of them liked to stir the pot. Jordan's ego is too big to allow him to exercise good judgement. On many occasions he instigated things by trash talking Chad to Chad's face. Same with Alex. And now we see Alex's bloated ego in action on tonight's episode. Yuck, just yuck. Alex needs to go home and grow up.

2) There was a commercial for GMA that showed clips of Jordan, Robby, Chad and Grant. The clip labeled them as the Bad Boys of the Bachelorette. On one hand this worries me, because why are they putting Robby in with the bad boys? And Grant? So, does the title really mean anything at all? But, does this mean that they are going to edit things with Robby like he's a bad boy? So rude! I'm not liking that.

Ok, now about tonight's episode. I actually found the first segment entertaining - the mock funeral (Wells is a funny guy), the confrontation (which was only escalated because Jordan cannot keep his mouth shut, he's got to take the bait), and the cake in Alex's face. Only thing that would have been better would have been a brick to Alex's face so I wouldn't have to look at his smug mug a moment more.

Then things started going downhill with the episode. Highlight of the CP prior to 1st RC tonight: Robby. Duh! Kissing by the fountain, smooth. What the heck was Jordan trying to prove with his mauling? Dude, if you're going to pin a girl up against a wall, do it with a little bit of finesse. Do it like Arie. Not like a mugging. Yeesh. A bit over the top. And the guys were being super competitive and cocky. Boy, you can tell they are mostly a bunch of jocks. Intense.

Then we had Jordan's date. (boring footage) Then the dinner talk. Boy they certainly are throwing Jordan under the bus. Now the guys are piling on Jordan, too. Questioning his motives. Either Jordan is a huge DB or this truly is like a bad version of West Side Story. Or both. I found myself liking all of these guys (except for Robby and Wells) less and less as the night went on.

Magazine-gate. Eh. That blew over quickly. No pounding on the doors.

Sand surfing date. More drama with the guys. Unattractive. So she gave the rose to Derek, get over it, Alex. Nothing more to say about that date.

Robby's date. Hey, you all have eyes and ears. You make up your own minds. As for the dinner talk. He seemed nervous saying ILY, and I think he explained his motivation for being on the show. My gut tells me that the gf-situation will be nothing, just a talk at HTDs and then it is put to rest. Even though that GMA commercial showed Robby as one of the so-called bad boys, pffft.

The previews: WTF?????!!!!!!!
She is supposed to go from 8 guys to 6 in epi 6, but she only wants to hand out roses to a total of 5? So, who will be eliminated....Derek on 2on1, Wells on 1on1, and James T? I need to go back and count how many guys are standing in the hall at the RC. Cuz doesn't Alex get a 1on1 in epi 7 (riding horses?) Plus, they have to keep the drama queen around so he can stir up trouble for 1 more week. Yuck.

The preview for later this season....WTF???????? We need to start sleuthing hands Immediately. I KNOW they aren't Luke's hands. He has super long fingers and his thumb looks double jointed. My guess is that the guy in blue suit that she is letting go is Jordan (after he did something to her, aka is a DB?) The preview really makes it look like the entire season is imploding. But, (taking deep breathes) I am still holding out hope that she kicks the "bad boy" to the curb (the theme) and then her white knight arrives as F1. At first I was thinking that she ends up with no one, but then I calmed down and thought about how well Robby's date went tonight. Nuff said.
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Post by DMBFan Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:03 am

Wow, I was watching tonights episode thinking she picks Jordan for sure and then watched the preview. Not sure what to make of that, I will say that for some reason I don't like Jordan and can't quite put my finger on it. I don't know if its the hair, the former professional athlete, or the too-smooth demeanour...

Do we know for sure that Chase screen cap is in Thailand? I would put him at F4 if I had to guess after tonights episode and Luke at F3 (next bachelor). If Luc isn't F1, think he's definitely our next bachelor.

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Post by kimberlyg Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:12 am

Could it possibly be Robby that she's upset at with the RC?  Like maybe the girlfriend thing ends up being true?

As to the previews -- I think she actually keeps more guys; i.e. she doesn't want to hand out a final rose because she wants someone around longer.  Because if she's supposed to go from 8-to-6, and Derek (guessing) leaves on the 2-on-1, and she gives a rose to Wells on their date, she may end up wanting to keep 7 for an extra week?  That just screams one of those tricks to me, where the lead asks for an extra rose.  It's possible then that's why there's another week in Argentina?  Because it looks like Wells gets a 1-on-1, but since there are only 8, he has to get a rose, otherwise the RC wouldn't be dramatic because there already would be 6.

(And there's still the blue dress/helicopter shots that I can't place and am incredibly curious about)

ETA: Maybe Chase ends up in the F3 because one of the other guys quits?


Last edited by kimberlyg on Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by MiaHawk Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:14 am

DMBfan, There are 2 SC of Chase that appear to be Thailand. One is in a Thai boat with other boats in the background, and the second is them sitting on a beach with cliffs in background. So, yeah, it appears Chase made it to Thailand.
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Post by AllAboutLove Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:25 am

veg_out wrote:AAL, glad you're back. I agree that something is odd about the season. What do you think is at work?
Thank you, VO! RL getting in the way and sleuthing for Bach AU S4. Regarding the bolded... Honestly I don't know... the edit is all over the place so far to me with these guys and I have yet to get that *IT* feeling that I got with Ben and Lauren, or Art and Matilda (for Bach NZ fans), even with Shawn B and Kaitlyn they had that...

With Jordan I got the feeling that it's almost like he was trying to convince himself like he is falling for JoJo... as if saying to himself... "Jordan you can do this, you can fall in love with JoJo"... which is odd because the last FIR recipient, Shawn, he was all in and falling for Kaitlyn but I don't see that with Jordan? With Luke I don't see JoJo as into him and he seems all in but his edit seems more next-bachelor so it doesn't ring totally true for me as I don't see it with him and JoJo either. Chase? I don't get JoJo that into Chase either, especially if he goes on a 2on1 then for sure I don't think she is that into him and so far he is chasing her. Robby I am clueless about and need to watch the new episode for his date to see what happens but with him his storyline is zero to sixty and no foundation to it really, imo.

I don't know it just feels like something is amiss? Like I posted upthread, I got the same feeling when watching Bach NZ S2 - that there was no *IT* between the lead and reciprocated with someone and despite the drama I don't see a reciprocated love story being built (even in small glimpses) for me just yet. Maybe it will change but even with the drama usually I see something at this point and I don't... I just see some guys chasing JoJo (Luke, Chase, Robby, etc) and JoJo chasing Jordan (who doesn't seem to be chasing her back) but no real *it* connection yet.

Hopefully this new recent episode which I have yet to watch will provide more clarification and some sort of *it* factor for the lead and one of the guys chasing her or her chasing... as I am still struggling to see it at this point... no idea
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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:10 am

Interesting how they edited that FR scene, her lips weren't moving in part of what we think we hear. And we get another B&L theme... falling in love with more than one person. Luke got the "lucky Luke" from Daniel.

Yeah, Mia those weren't Luke's ginormous hands for sure. OHHH and Mia, I think you secretly want a little slice of fruit of the forest pie, did you notice Luke's shirt in that outtake! TeamChase - THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - Episode Discussion - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION - Page 58 3806527698

Am I the only one that sees some passion between Luke & Jojo!! It's there, did you guys not see that kiss! It's also there with Jordan, she's seeing all the "signs" she doesn't go for, with him, come on girl stop making excuses where he's concerned. You either full on trust him or you don't.

I wanted to see more sand boarding, looked like a fun date.

So at the BA RC looks like this order- Jordan, JT, Alex, Robby, Chase & Luke-looks like maybe Chase & Luke have roses in the lineup?? Hard to see.

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Post by Guest Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:40 am

Ok, watching back I was wrong about the FRC scene, it does look like she's saying the parts shown. I broke it down, I think this is somewhat right.

Jo-I fell in love with you
VO-and I still love you
Jo-but what you did to me
VO-it's not right. But I want you to know
Jo-it's really hard for me
Vo-to not accept
Jo-this love


Like to know what this person did. I can't see her crying over Chase or Robby that hard, but I can see it over Jordan. I just don't see Jordan going that far, so must be Robby? no idea Still seeing Luke as F1, they aren't giving me enough of a love story with the other 2 and Jordan's getting a bad/odd edit.

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Post by locoforbach Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:08 am

MiaHawk wrote:Hi Locoforbach, handwave

It has been sleuthed here in the non-spoiler thread that Jojo wears the white dress on her SD with Jordan in Uruguay which we will see tonight.  It is thought that the crying scene with her in the white dress is when Jojo finds out that her ex-boyfriend provided an interview to a magazine (after her date with Jordan is finished).  In the article the ex-boyfriend claims that Jojo never fell in love with Ben and basically that Jojo is fake and insincere. The article is posted in the SC sleuthing thread, IIRC.  Then it is thought that she changes out of white dress and into grey sweater to go speak to the guys about the article. There is definitely a future SC showing Jordan playing soccer and talking to her with both wearing black leather jackets, presumed to be in epi 6 or 7 in BA.

There's "lots of Robby love" from, oh, I'd say, maybe, a grand total of 1 person....me! I just like to get really enthusiastic about somebody that I enjoy watching.  I like Robby and would like to see him stay longer. You're right, so far they haven't been showing us a story. Hopefully, tonight that will start to change, as Robby gets his long awaited SD. They have cut their conversations down to tiny bits. I'm hoping that we actually get to see a conversation on the SD, but I predict that I will be disappointed. I think they will edit the SD as an action date and show the diving and water canoodling more than the talking. And, Robby is a chatterbox. His greeting right out of the limo told me so much. So, I just know that there HAD to have been real conversations between them. I've studied the bits, and by stringing them together I have put together a connection and compatibility between them, even if I'm the only one who sees it!

I agree with you about the masculinity thing. Ben wasn't a meathead. Ben was an ex-athlete and in good shape, but he did not have a jock-persona. He was sincere and what I would call normal.  But, in the end, Ben didn't think that Jojo was the best fit for his life.  Why? Because she is a little less/more than normal?

Jordan's an ex-pro athlete for whom sports was everything. Jordan is Apple Pie. Everybody thinks of Apple Pie as the go-to dessert. Safe. Solid. A food to feed the masses. Except, sometimes Apple Pie is under cooked or the crust is too thin and soggy and not able to support the weight of the apples. Sometimes you grab the Apple Pie and put it on your tray, but then have buyer's remorse when you see the other options.

Chase strikes me as an ex-football player/competitive type with the ability to connect with a softer side. Chase is Chocolate Lava Cake.  He's an old standard chocolate cake on the outside but with a warm and gooey center. I personally find the center filling in the Chocolate Lava Cake to be too much chocolate, too much of the same thing, not enough contrast on my taste buds.  Typically, I never order the Chocolate Lava Cake.

Luke is the smart, sensitive, sexy, strong soldier/farm boy who can wield an ax with one of his ginormous hands while using the other ginormous hand to hold a girl above scalding water. He's checked off so many boxes that the man practically works at UPS.  Luke is a Fruits of the Forest Pie, a pie chock full of apples, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, and rhubard.  Much more complicated than the ordinary Apple Pie and with a much better balanced flavor profile than the Chocolate Lava Cake. Fruits of the Forest Pie is sweet and tart combined. Yet, some people, not being fully aware of what they're going to get in a slice of Fruits of Forest Pie may pass it up. Or maybe they like apples, strawberries, and blueberries enough, but they're not so sure about the rhubard and they don't like those pesky raspberry seeds.

Robby is being shown as a fairly serious and mature guy who is staying out of the fray of the Chad drama.  He interacts with Chad with confidence and caution and is smart enough to know not to poke the Chad bear, as compared to others like Jordan and Alex. Robby is shown acting intentionally with Jojo. Some may interpret this as canned, calculated, or insincere (possibly due to his voice or unease with the process of recording his ITM/PIs), but if you study his tidbits of airtime and really listen to what he is saying, he is focused on her and wants to develop a relationship with her. Yet, he doesn't come across as intense. He is cool, smooth, refreshing, colorful, and has hidden surprises. Robby is Spumoni, a specially molded ice cream with layers of chocolate ice cream, vanilla ice cream with chopped cherries mixed in, and pistachio ice cream with nuts.  It's different and it's not for everyone. Some people like normal ice cream, but spumoni is a bit less/more than normal to them.

Mia - this is awesome, I love your dessert comparisons.  At this point it doesn't matter if I like their personalities, they are all totally delicious looking drooling  What's really insightful is that my top 2 picks are Chase and Luke and I always pick the chocolate or fruity dessert from the menu - if there is a chocolate covered fruit I would go for that  girldance  From what others have said it seems your descriptions of them pretty much fit our personal tastes!

I feel like others here, in that I can't quite figure out who is the best fit for JoJo, I know who I like but not sure they are the ones for her.  Juggling 8 guys is fairly difficult and confusing; when it is down to 4 or 5 and we start seeing some real quality interaction between JoJo and the guys then I will start to get a feel for who's personality fits with hers.  So far this season has been "The Chad and Alex and Evan Show".  I have not gotten alot of depth or substsance from any of the dates.  I don't know if it is because Ben was so articulate and really seemed interested in getting to know the girls or if it was because the women on his season were not "drama filled" and for the most part all got along, but I feel like by this point I knew who Ben was really into and who was really into him.

I was trying to determine last night who is getting the JoJo edit (???)  She seemed to be the one everyone went to for advice and the one who kept things fun.  She didn't throw her connection with Ben in others face.  On group dates she was respectful of others, when she had time with him she would ask about him, show concern for how he was doing in the process. You could tell she really liked him and it was about "them", not just her. She was somewhat of his "confidant".  That is why I so wrongly picked her as Ben's F1.  Then I realized that edit is what many male F1s get - much like Shawn, JP, and Chris.  So . . . is that Luke? Chase? Robby?  I don't see Jordan in that role.  I see him very attracted to her, but not in a "I want to marry you and have kids with you" sort of way.

So far all I see is chemistry with Jordan and Luke.  Robby saying ILY on his first 1on1 date is a little too weird for me.  I know there can be love at first site, but that is attraction/chemistry/lust.  Truly loving someone means knowing them well and being connected to them in a way you are with no other.  You may (like Ben) feel this way about multiple people, but I don't think it happens after spending 8-10 hours with a person.  I understand he lost someone close and that made him rethink his life, but to me making all those changes and pledging love so soon tells me he is not on completely stable ground.  I do believe he is sensible, kind, and caring.  I think he is truly a good person, I am just not sold on the idea he is the person for JoJo.  As far as Chase, he got some negative edits so I am not sure where he will end up.  In the previews they had him saying something like "why are you laughing, I am taking this serious," and then they panned to JoJo to make it seem like he was saying that to her, almost rudely, but I am not sure I believe that to be the case, it seems like there is someone sitting next to her.  Possibly his comment is directed to one of the guys??

I may have to remove myself from this thread soon, because you gals are the best sleuthers and before long someone is going to figure out those "hands" at the FRC and I don't want to be "that spoiled", it will ruin the rest of the season for me if I know who is rejected.  Then again, that edit could be clipped/diced/chopped and taken all wrong - he could be the one she ends up with question
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