THE BACHELORETTE - SEASON 12 - JOJO FLETCHER - **NO SPOILERS** - *SLEUTHING* DISCUSSION

Katiebelle wrote:

kimberlyg wrote:

Lost17 wrote:Katie- none of that here. BTW I think there's a few here that are #teamJordan. I don't care who Jo picks, I just want to enjoy Luke longer.

I'm on #TeamJordan .  Haven't been posting that much this week, since I've been busy and no new episode.

As a member of TeamJordan what did you think of the video that ABC put up with JoJo questioning him about a past relationship. Do you think this is his redemption story where he shows that he is a changed man and is now ready and able to commit to one woman?

I actually quite like him - I just don't find him attractive- but I do think he would be a good fit for JoJo.

I love a good redemption story! That could very well be, Katiebelle. Jordan seems to be a nice man and I believe people can redeem themselves. It's hard to determine if Jordan will redeem himself with JoJo, or he will do it as the next lead. It would make for a compelling and dynamic next Bachelor, although I think Luke is their first choice (if he's not F1). 
On the other hand, I kind of wish for JoJo to find herself with a man who is more whole and complete and not in need of fixing after what she went through with the ex and then Ben. And JoJo's story arc this season seems to point to that as well.

agentcurls wrote:

Katiebelle wrote:

kimberlyg wrote:

I'm on #TeamJordan .  Haven't been posting that much this week, since I've been busy and no new episode.

As a member of TeamJordan what did you think of the video that ABC put up with JoJo questioning him about a past relationship. Do you think this is his redemption story where he shows that he is a changed man and is now ready and able to commit to one woman?

I actually quite like him - I just don't find him attractive- but I do think he would be a good fit for JoJo.

I love a good redemption story! That could very well be, Katiebelle. Jordan seems to be a nice man and I believe people can redeem themselves. It's hard to determine if Jordan will redeem himself with JoJo, or he will do it as the next lead. It would make for a compelling and dynamic next Bachelor, although I think Luke is their first choice (if he's not F1). 
On the other hand, I kind of wish for JoJo to find herself with a man who is more whole and complete and not in need of fixing after what she went through with the ex and then Ben. And JoJo's story arc this season seems to point to that as well.

Ya know - I'm been thinking about this a bit. TPTB deliberately put in the bit in the shows big preview about JoJo always going for the bad guy and after her experience with "perfect Ben" realising that she deserves and should choose a good guy. They did it for a reason.

So here we have the F4 - two with ex girlfriend baggage (Jordan and Robby) and two nice guys - sensitive war veteran Luke and funny sweetheart Chase.

Who is she going to choose? And can a bad guy become a nice guy when he falls in love?

Thoughts?

^well, kudos to you for introducing a new arc/train of thought (re:Jordan)...but now I am more confused! 

I like the redemption angle, but I'm not sure it will work as well in the bubble as in the real world. We shall see. If Jordan didn't have such stiff competition, I think JoJo might be more patient with him, but everything is so darn expedient in the bubble.

Luke & Chase seem like the strong, steady ones. As veg_out stated, we will have to see whose storyline develops more and who gets more screentime with JoJo in these next few episodes and how that compares to the arcs of Robby & Jordan. 
Or what will have more significance is what is left in the edit and the quality of the interactions more than screen time possibly (?)

agentcurls wrote:^well, kudos to you for introducing a new arc/train of thought (re:Jordan)...but now I am more confused! 

I like the redemption angle, but I'm not sure it will work as well in the bubble as in the real world. We shall see. If Jordan didn't have such stiff competition, I think JoJo might be more patient with him, but everything is so darn expedient in the bubble.

Luke & Chase seem like the strong, steady ones. As veg_out stated, we will have to see whose storyline develops more and who gets more screentime with JoJo in these next few episodes and how that compares to the arcs of Robby & Jordan. 
Or what will have more significance is what is left in the edit and the quality of the interactions more than screen time possibly (?)

Yes IA - I think the next couple of episodes will be very telling. We need to look past the MOT guys and focus on her interactions with the F4.

Honestly, I hate the idea of judging someone based on what happened with exes. The supposed F4 guys are in their late 20's (with Luke in his early 30's)... of course they're going to have exes and some of those relationships may not have been good for a variety of reasons. But I don't think it's necessarily right to judge someone based on exes; and even cheating if it was in the past. (Like, if some guy I'm dating cheated when he was 19, I'm not going to judge him for it when he's 32; I don't even want to know). So whatever Jordan's answer to the questions that I haven't seen yet won't bother me. I get JoJo wanting to know, but sometimes you have to also understand that the past is in the past.

It's like, to me, that she's fishing for a reason not to trust Jordan, when it seems like he's been nothing but go-along and open.

Obviously, it seems like Jordan's previous relationship was at least a year or so before the show; we don't know about Chase/Luke. Robby is the only one who is iffy and that's based on the preview. Like, breakups to go on the show where the lead REALLY likes the contestant have only ended poorly in the past (see Frank; or even Ed to some extent because that all never aired).

It's interesting that during the season preview: 
JoJo "There's something about a bad boy (shows her & Chad) that I've always been drawn to:

(my own SC)
and it's gotten me in trouble."

(my own SC) 
Showing the F2 out of the F4 who are (likely) less controversial. I wonder why? Subliminal messaging?

I know they are building Jo up like she is trying to find a perfect 10-Ben replacement and find what Lauren & Ben have. I wonder if she does?...Or if she still follows her old patterns of being drawn to a "bad boy", (although I don't think Jordan & Robby are bad boys, really. They just have more baggage). If JoJo makes a less popular choice, TPTB wouldn't care less as long as they still get the water-cooler talk all season.
But after all of the tears over the ex, will she choose someone that makes her feel safe or does she go with someone that excites her (and not in the best way?) Hopefully she found someone for whom safety and excitement aren't mutually exclusive in the end.

Are TPTB trying to make us believe that JoJo's storyline is her going against her old pattern? ...But maybe it doesn't.

My gray area is that this cheating conversation was apparently introduced in episode 5. Yet, we clearly see her getting all giddy when Jordan says he's in love with her. So it seems as though the cheating conversation ended well, because she kept him on. But what was interesting, as mentioned prior, is that we see Jordan and Robby declaring their love early on in what seems like episode 5 (correct me if I'm wrong). We haven't seen Chase or Luke says those words yet. Isn't the F1 more hesitant to get to that point? Doesn't the F1 wait until closer to the FSD to reveal that?

As per @agentcurls' comment about getting someone who makes her feel safe and excited at the same time. I think Luke and Chase in their own ways accomplish that. In the preview we see JoJo leading Chase into what may be a bedroom or some living room area. So clearly, she wants more! And she can't get over how hot Luke is. While I think Jordan is a good fit for her in terms of their comfort levels around each other, attraction, and similar social status, I'm not quite sure he's ready for marriage. JoJo clearly is ready for that part, but I have a few question marks with Jordan. Sure, he may be ready for a relationship, but for marriage, I don't know. When I reflect on all of the married couples in the franchise, to me the selections made by the lead were by and large safe ones, not risky ones.

Ok so I relooked episode 3 with the sex talk date. In JoJo's conversation with Jordan he mentioned that he didn't do well in relationships in the past, putting football above all else etc. My question is, why didn't she seize the opportunity then to prompt him about cheating etc? Did she think it was too early in their relationship to sabotage it? Also we see her saying in an ITM after Jordan opening up in the same episode, JoJo says " ...being able to understand his past and how he is in relationships. And he knows the man he wants to be in a relationship. He has learned from his past mistakes, but he's more than ready to find somebody who can, you know, be that person for him". Now fast track to episode 5 and we have them rehashing the same issue. Was that producer driven to heighten the drama. Because to me, if they already spoke about it in episode 3, why bring it back up again in episode 5 to prod with more questions?

^I definitely think it could be producer-driven to throw a bigger obstacle Jorjo's way. For two reasons: 1) to build drama and angst 2) to have the frontrunner take a backseat for a few episodes so that others have a chance to possibly move up the chain.
I also have some question marks in regards to Jordan. One of them is: once he tells her he is falling in love, what is the rest of their storyline/trajectory? And how are TPTB going to spin it to make it look less predictable? 

@aviej, maybe Chase and Luke make similar "falling in love" declarations during the next episode, too. If they don't, I do think TPTB may be holding those back for greater impact later and that might be significant. 

On another note, if JoJo makes a more risky pick, she might not be too ready herself for engagement/marriage, etc. But I'm still holding out hope for a great love story no matter who her F1 is. (Please JoJo, I need a good one!  )

Hi guys

I have a question.

I want to sleuth where Chase and JoJo are having their date in Thailand. But need to work out where to look. It's a big country with lots of coastline.

Do they always have the F3 FS dates around the same area? Or do they make sure they are well and truly separated by distance? I don't think it's in Hua Hin like Robby's date but it could be nearby or a completely different location.

I also thought I'd see if I could get a better screen cap of the fishing village they are in but AAL's preview video that she posted has gone. It's also no longer posted on the TV website I watch either. Do you think it will be safe to get it from Youtube?

Katiebelle wrote:Hi guys

I have a question.

I want to sleuth where Chase and JoJo are having their date in Thailand. But need to work out where to look. It's a big country with lots of coastline.

Do they always have the F3 FS dates around the same area? Or do they make sure they are well and truly separated by distance? I don't think it's in Hua Hin like Robby's date but it could be nearby or a completely different location.

I also thought I'd see if I could get a better screen cap of the fishing village they are in but AAL's preview video that she posted has gone. It's also no longer posted on the TV website I watch either. Do you think it will be safe to get it from Youtube?

I'll try to get a better one but not sure it will be as clear. 
I'll post in the SC thread.

I cannot rememberwhich thread we were discussing it in, but I have a new opinion on the "I'm in love, like mad love" comment. Just rewatched on my tv, and I think it was Alex who said it. IIRC, one of you said that you thought it might be Alex, and I now agree! I wonder if they will actually show it in an episode.