The Bachelorette 12 - JoJo Fletcher - S/Caps - SM - Sleuthing - Discussion - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* #2

Alanna wrote:

northernviewer wrote:I dont think its that she cant trust Jordan in particular, i think she'd be having the same doubts and concerns with any of the other guys that was going to be her F1.   Her over the top insecurities are the result of past relationships and the number Ben pulled on her by declaring his love in the Bubble when he really didnt mean it.  Jordan is getting blamed for it because of his past, and although it might weigh on her mind, i think Ben or Luke or Chase would be the ones getting the third degree from her if they were the one she really wanted to be with.  

Yes!!!!!! This is what I'm saying!! Exactly. It's Jo that this is coming from, not that he's inherently untrustworthy to her imo. She doesn't care what Robby or Chase or anyone else tell her and doesn't question it because 110% of all her anxieties are solely on the shoulders of the man she wants imo. And I feel for him tbh: he is paying for sins of boyfriends and Bens past when he's done nothing wrong to her in my view.

Both posts 100%.

I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

mindless wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

SueSt wrote:^^ I think JoJo wanted Jordan from day one, knew she couldn't trust him but couldn't stay away. So she kept 'trying on' the other guys, Robby's unwavering commitment, Chase's vulnerability, Luke's quiet confidence... but in the end, the heart wants what the heart wants. She's young. We all go through it. Hopefully she will learn.

I think she needed a double lesson... because her ex, Chad, 39 years old, was a cheater and a liar. At least this is what I read about him...

Then she asked a guy to change his lifestyle after 72 hours together (as per Ali F who said it is the approx, time spent with the top 2)?

The funny part or ironic is that during his fantasy time with her, he gushed how important it was to look in the eyes of A dad so HE knew how much in love he was. Never say, YOUR dad. Correct me if I am wrong but I never hear talking about: I cannot wait to look in the eyes of YOUR dad and tell HIM how in love I am... he talked generic, as something he thought about IF one day he was ready to propose... So all is good in words and talks but when reality kicked in, he was just NOT ready.

ETA: I think he kept the boyfriend approach meeting his girlfriend's parents. He missed the point that it was one meeting, one time dad's approval. I am not sure he understood what he was doing until she had this explanation 'I won't lie, I was incredibly crying river and river of watera bit disappointed'

JMO

mindless wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

I completely get it from both of their perspectives.

Imo, he's not confident enough to ask the dad because she's acting like a freaking nut case all along, doesn't trust him, and compares him incessantly to the men who really damaged her. If I was him, I'd think, that she thinks I'm essentially a bad guy who needs to prove himself over and over, and she will probably choose the other one instead.

And from her perspective, she is feeding her own fears by pushing him away so hard and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that he's a bad guy like Chad R or a hurtful one like Ben, he cheats at poker and will end up shattering her heart any day now.

I get why she's scared and I feel compassion for her but I think she's encouraging him to not ask the dad and question everything regarding her. Somehow, he did put her first, and asked the dad and wrote her that letter and they made it to the frc though. So I can see them trying and working on it and having that devotion grow with time. Jmo.

Jordan may not have not done anything wrong to her, but he hasn't done anything right to/for her either.

IMO.

mindless wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

And I disagree with you. Like I said , the things she knew about him going into it might have weighed on her, I think if Robbie was the one she was in love with, theres no way she would have let that whole girlfriend thing go as easy as she did. She just didnt really care i think about the situation as she already knew that Jordan was going to be her F1. I just went and rewatched the first episode where shes talking to the past 'ettes and she was scared then that she wouldnt find anyone and she talked about how Ben gave her so much validation that she was worried about that and that she was going to be careful as to what she said and did. She went into it worred that she wasnt goung to be engaged at the end of this and for the most part her insecurities ruled her.

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:Jordan may not have not done anything wrong to her, but he hasn't done anything right to/for her either.

IMO.

I don't know when he was ever given a chance to do anything right because from literally their second talk ever, Jo started questioning him and trying to figure out what's wrong with him and when/how he's going to hurt her? All I see is him on the defensive imo. She has given him zero opportunity to be on the offensive and chase her, woo her, and do things right. It's all been managing her and keeping her from disaster. All jmo.

northernviewer wrote:

mindless wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

And I disagree with you.  Like I said , the things she knew about him going into it might have weighed on her, I think if Robbie was the one she was in love with, theres no way she would have let that whole girlfriend thing go as easy as she did.  She just didnt really care i think about the situation as she already knew that Jordan was going to be her F1.  I just went and rewatched the first episode where shes talking to the past 'ettes and she was scared then that she wouldnt find anyone and she talked about how Ben gave her so much validation that she was worried  about that and that she was going to be careful as to what she said and did.  She went into it worred that she wasnt goung to be engaged at the end of this and for the most part her insecurities ruled her.

Fleiss lies and exaggerates all the time, but he said several times while filming that she was scared she was going to end up alone out of this (or something like that.)

Alanna wrote:

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:Jordan may not have not done anything wrong to her, but he hasn't done anything right to/for her either.

IMO.

I don't know when he was ever given a chance to do anything right because from literally their second talk ever, Jo started questioning him and trying to figure out what's wrong with him and when/how he's going to hurt her? All I see is him on the defensive imo. She has given him zero opportunity to be on the offensive and chase her, woo her, and do things right. It's all been managing her and keeping her from disaster. All jmo.

I DO agree, don't get me wrong. I just think he hasn't really put in much effort, even in little things. And yeah, it may be difficult for him since she pounced on him right from the get go. But even then, he could've done SOMETHING. Though, truthfully, I already said I don't believe he's an overly touchy person (so that's not exclusive to JoJo because I noticed the same thing with his parents on the HTD), and I also don't think he's overly romantic or sentimental. And JoJo's likes that sort of stuff..MOST girls like that sort of stuff. So, he needs to get with the program.

IMO.

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

mindless wrote:I'm gonna have to disagree. There are some obvious red flags with Jordan and she would have to be stupid to totally ignore them. JoJo may be in love, but she's not stupid. I mean according to US Weekly/the preview, he didn't even ask for her dad's blessing until she told him how disappointed she was. Not that I personally think anyone should, but everyone does on this show and they both seem to come from a conservative background, so it was to be expected. Nothing spells "I'm dying to spend the rest of my life with you" like not even asking the dad. Not being sure he wants to pop the question makes him a normal human being considering the timeline, but it's not the unconditional love and devotion JoJo was expecting, so she has every reason to doubt him. It may evolve into the kind of love she wanted further down the line, but it also may not. Who knows and it's the uncertainty that's making her insecure. JMO.

And I disagree with you.  Like I said , the things she knew about him going into it might have weighed on her, I think if Robbie was the one she was in love with, theres no way she would have let that whole girlfriend thing go as easy as she did.  She just didnt really care i think about the situation as she already knew that Jordan was going to be her F1.  I just went and rewatched the first episode where shes talking to the past 'ettes and she was scared then that she wouldnt find anyone and she talked about how Ben gave her so much validation that she was worried  about that and that she was going to be careful as to what she said and did.  She went into it worred that she wasnt goung to be engaged at the end of this and for the most part her insecurities ruled her.

Fleiss lies and exaggerates all the time, but he said several times while filming that she was scared she was going to end up alone out of this (or something like that.)

Im sure with fleisses minions in her ear at all turns, she had every right to feel that way. We know how much the producers poke and prod to get the story line they want...simply flash back to Luke's exit, I think he looks more peeved off at the prod, then truly being shocked she let him go. JMO

Di_ATL wrote:

Lennoxcolinrolland wrote:

northernviewer wrote:

And I disagree with you.  Like I said , the things she knew about him going into it might have weighed on her, I think if Robbie was the one she was in love with, theres no way she would have let that whole girlfriend thing go as easy as she did.  She just didnt really care i think about the situation as she already knew that Jordan was going to be her F1.  I just went and rewatched the first episode where shes talking to the past 'ettes and she was scared then that she wouldnt find anyone and she talked about how Ben gave her so much validation that she was worried  about that and that she was going to be careful as to what she said and did.  She went into it worred that she wasnt goung to be engaged at the end of this and for the most part her insecurities ruled her.

Fleiss lies and exaggerates all the time, but he said several times while filming that she was scared she was going to end up alone out of this (or something like that.)

Im sure with fleisses minions in her ear at all turns, she had every right to feel that way. We know how much the producers poke and prod to get the story line they want...simply flash back to Luke's exit, I think he looks more peeved off at the prod, then truly being shocked she let him go. JMO  

Agreed