Re: Joelle Fletcher - (JoJo) - Bachelor 20 - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - #2

by NCGalBecca Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:47 am

JMO, but if you believe what Ben is saying in his blog or onscreen about one person, you can't totally discount what he's saying about the others and he's had plenty of nice things to say about JoJo. Yes, he has a "job" to do but why go overboard (i.e. ILY) when your words can be used against you later on - especially if everyone but Lauren has been out of the running for weeks?

If JoJo was just his matter of time girl, no need say you were incredibly serious or were "terrified" that she was going to dump him when a simple disappointed would have worked just fine.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:28 am

Lucas15 wrote:
iamreal2u wrote:Who else would have made it to F2 though? Amanda had to go back to her kids and it seems that someone(Caila) is involved in a historic FD according to tptb. Maybe process of elimination?!!

Exactly.

Taking Lauren out of the picture for a moment, after HTD I think the handwriting was on the wall for two girls: Amanda because I think Ben knew there was no way he would pick her and didn't want to keep her away from her daughters, and also didn't have the love necessary to become an instant step-dad (and perhaps deal with an ex if he knew how that goes); and JoJo because of the way her family treated Ben and the uncertainty of the ex and Ben's past experiences with that. But he couldn't send both home after HTD so he had to make a choice and if I were Ben I would have chosen Amanda too - so she could reunite with her daughters sooner.

There's a school of thought that the actual "second choice" is not F2 but F3, and IMO that's probably true at least on some seasons. Another school of thought is that F2 is the easiest one to dump. I tend to think that there isn't a "one size fits all" situation and that the real second choice depends on the lead. I don't necessarily think that F2 on The Bachelor is a coveted finishing position. F2 gets dragged through all the manipulation that F1 and the lead get dragged through which is physically and emotionally exhausting at best, and the reward at the end of the day is nada. F1 gets the lead and F2 gets a difficult path to ever being the lead on her own season.

If there's a historic FD mess with Caila then JoJo may have become F2 by default - no one else was left.
JMHO

If Jojo was F2 by default, I don't think Ben would have used the words crushed, terrified, incredibly serious about her, holding back.... in his blog. It seems like he made the effort to make it clear that Jojo was really important for him, and certainly more than the edit makes us believe. IMO.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:36 am

Lucas15 wrote:
iamreal2u wrote:Who else would have made it to F2 though? Amanda had to go back to her kids and it seems that someone(Caila) is involved in a historic FD according to tptb. Maybe process of elimination?!!

Exactly.

Taking Lauren out of the picture for a moment, after HTD I think the handwriting was on the wall for two girls: Amanda because I think Ben knew there was no way he would pick her and didn't want to keep her away from her daughters, and also didn't have the love necessary to become an instant step-dad (and perhaps deal with an ex if he knew how that goes); and JoJo because of the way her family treated Ben and the uncertainty of the ex and Ben's past experiences with that. But he couldn't send both home after HTD so he had to make a choice and if I were Ben I would have chosen Amanda too - so she could reunite with her daughters sooner.

There's a school of thought that the actual "second choice" is not F2 but F3, and IMO that's probably true at least on some seasons. Another school of thought is that F2 is the easiest one to dump. I tend to think that there isn't a "one size fits all" situation and that the real second choice depends on the lead. I don't necessarily think that F2 on The Bachelor is a coveted finishing position. F2 gets dragged through all the manipulation that F1 and the lead get dragged through which is physically and emotionally exhausting at best, and the reward at the end of the day is nada. F1 gets the lead and F2 gets a difficult path to ever being the lead on her own season.

If there's a historic FD mess with Caila then JoJo may have become F2 by default - no one else was left.
JMHO

or they still look at F3 = Lead, and given the pressure for a WOC to be the next Bette, they pushed Caila to that position, switching with originally planned Becca?

by Ash2214 Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:37 am

From what I've seen, and to most viewers who have commented on social media IMO, it's been 1. Lauren and 2. JoJo since the beginning pretty much. JoJo got a group date rose before, got special time on top of the building with the beautiful view, got a 1-on-1 date that was so special to him that he apparently talked all about it to Ali and her fiancé according to her blog at Jade and Tanner's wedding, etc. I think his F2 were his true F2.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:38 am

NCGalBecca wrote:JMO, but if you believe what Ben is saying in his blog or onscreen about one person, you can't totally discount what he's saying about the others and he's had plenty of nice things to say about JoJo. Yes, he has a "job" to do but why go overboard (i.e. ILY) when your words can be used against you later on - especially if everyone but Lauren has been out of the running for weeks?

If JoJo was just his matter of time girl, no need say you were incredibly serious or were "terrified" that she was going to dump him when a simple disappointed would have worked just fine.

Both Ben and CH have said (and for one i believe CH!) that ben was very focus on each relationships one at a time, like Kaitlyn was, and fully involved with each. then poop hit the fan at each decision time/RC realising that although the actual dates were great, in comparison... well... .

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:40 am

Ash2214 wrote:From what I've seen, and to most viewers who have commented on social media IMO, it's been 1. Lauren and 2. JoJo since the beginning pretty much. JoJo got a group date rose before, got special time on top of the building with the beautiful view, got a 1-on-1 date that was so special to him that he apparently talked all about it to Ali and her fiancé according to her blog at Jade and Tanner's wedding, etc. I think his F2 were his true F2.

I agree. And this is why despite a lot of posters believing in BenLo, TPTB is managing to create doubt. I think he was all in with both, gave it his all, then had to choose the one he loved more/just couldnt let go.

by Mommyof2 Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:55 am

NCGalBecca wrote:JMO, but if you believe what Ben is saying in his blog or onscreen about one person, you can't totally discount what he's saying about the others and he's had plenty of nice things to say about JoJo. Yes, he has a "job" to do but why go overboard (i.e. ILY) when your words can be used against you later on - especially if everyone but Lauren has been out of the running for weeks?

If JoJo was just his matter of time girl, no need say you were incredibly serious or were "terrified" that she was going to dump him when a simple disappointed would have worked just fine.

Agreed. Ben looked really upset when JoJo was telling him about Chad. He had a "deer caught in the headlights" look, imo. Then he visibly relaxed when she told him that relationship was over.

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:12 am

Ash2214 wrote:From what I've seen, and to most viewers who have commented on social media IMO, it's been 1. Lauren and 2. JoJo since the beginning pretty much. JoJo got a group date rose before, got special time on top of the building with the beautiful view, got a 1-on-1 date that was so special to him that he apparently talked all about it to Ali and her fiancé according to her blog at Jade and Tanner's wedding, etc. I think his F2 were his true F2.

True. Ben said he tried to compartmentalize. Take each relationship for what it is . The thing I find interesting is, every time he speaks of Jojo, it's the same old thing. He can define it. She's the one I can be myself with. Like he's already got a definition for her and figured out what it is about her. Everytime thus far , when he pulls out the Jojo box, that's what's in it. I do think since he labeled her passionate to Ellen, it's going to heat up. We see the previews . Her passion will be unleashed , to add dramatic tone to it. But in the end, when he brings out the Jojo box from his compartment , what will stand out ? If it's the I can be myself around her, it might not be enough. Because while that's a building block to a relationship , there are intangibles to love that you can't define . You don't always know why you feel it but you do. Ben has categorized Jojo imo, he can pinpoint what it is about her that he loves and cares for. It's cerebral. So I think it boils down to following his head or his heart. Jojo is one sexy lady so I guess Ben's other head will need to decide too. Hugesmile

by julychild Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:16 am

I might be wrong, but when I heard " passionate" my mind never went to the physical type of passion. I thought he was referring to the depth at which she feels. Sort of the way he describes Caila's mom in his blog.

by Ash2214 Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:30 am

sophienette wrote:
Ash2214 wrote:From what I've seen, and to most viewers who have commented on social media IMO, it's been 1. Lauren and 2. JoJo since the beginning pretty much. JoJo got a group date rose before, got special time on top of the building with the beautiful view, got a 1-on-1 date that was so special to him that he apparently talked all about it to Ali and her fiancé according to her blog at Jade and Tanner's wedding, etc. I think his F2 were his true F2.

I agree. And this is why despite a lot of posters believing in BenLo, TPTB is managing to create doubt. I think he was all in with both, gave it his all, then had to choose the one he loved more/just couldnt let go.

Absolutely. I like that it appears he really only had legitimate interest in a couple of girls the whole time. He took each relationship separately and that's all he can really do. I believe him when he looked emotional and said "I love her.. More."

by Guest Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:35 am

I just found it interesting that they had to cancel Jojo's original HTD where she takes Ben around and use film for the fake Chad thing . I do think Ben didn't know . Did they want to ramp things up for Ben so he'd feel more?

by agentcurls Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:37 am

julychild wrote:I might be wrong, but when I heard " passionate" my mind never went to the physical type of passion. I thought he was referring to the depth at which she feels. Sort of the way he describes Caila's mom in his blog.

That's a great way of putting it, jc...and I agree, her exuberant personality makes her stand out (to me at least).

Ben could've expunged a bit in his latest blog to help further the "in love with two women storyline" and to perpetuate the thought that he had a VERY hard time deciding on his F1. He could've been coached/prompted to do so by TPTB, especially after many thinking JoJo was burnt toast after that HTD. It would create at least a little doubt that Lauren is F1 like so many believe already.
With that being said, I don't doubt he had some of those strong feelings for JoJo at all.
There is also the (very) small possibility that he was sending a message to JoJo & her family (no matter the outcome he may have just wanted her/them to know his thoughts)

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