Bachelor 24 - Peter Weber - Mar 2nd (WTA) - Discussion - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

Man so glad I tuned into the first 20 minutes then switched over to The Voice. What a mess this WTA was. Couldn't even understand what the girls were all saying because they were yelling at each other. Lots of fast forwarding happened. Also this Rachel and hate tweets/comments segment was already done during Kaitlyn's season but they were all geared towards her. All these comments will never end whether it's with the girls going after each other or comments from randoms to the girls. It's sad but unfortunately it will never end. Thank goodness it's finally the finale next week.

atem wrote:Anyone else annoyed with all the VO done for Madi and Peter?  We have no clue when they were said.

We don't but imo those heartfelt voice overs were for Madi , no one else. jmo

Linds911 wrote:Man so glad I tuned into the first 20 minutes then switched over to The Voice. What a mess this WTA was. Couldn't even understand what the girls were all saying because they were yelling at each other. Lots of fast forwarding happened. Also this Rachel and hate tweets/comments segment was already done during Kaitlyn's season but they were all geared towards her. All these comments will never end whether it's with the girls going after each other or comments from randoms to the girls. It's sad but unfortunately it will never end. Thank goodness it's finally the finale next week.

Anyone else think it was odd that the whole Sydney in Peru was never addressed? I mean, so many things that it's boggling my mind.

Peter is in love with 3 women. Peter is in love with 2 women.Imo Peter just wants all the women. Madi Imo is dragged by producers to torcherously stand and accept the rose so the show goes on. ( She signed a contract IMO without really knowing how much of their prisioner she became.) Shaking the whole time- she accepts the rose- as the man who says he loves her is so involved in his own emotions - he offers her no comfort. This Imo is not even a little of a love story. It is a tragedy. ABC you should be ashamed.

just me wrote:Peter is in love with 3 women. Peter is in love with 2 women.Imo Peter just wants all the women. Madi Imo is dragged by producers to torcherously stand and accept the rose so the show goes on. ( She signed a contract IMO without really knowing how much of their prisioner she became.) Shaking the whole time- she accepts the rose- as the man who says he loves her is so involved in his own emotions - he offers her no comfort. This Imo is not even a little of a love story. It is a tragedy. ABC  you should be ashamed.

But people can leave ... Frank, Brooks, Graham.

notarose wrote:

just me wrote:Peter is in love with 3 women. Peter is in love with 2 women.Imo Peter just wants all the women. Madi Imo is dragged by producers to torcherously stand and accept the rose so the show goes on. ( She signed a contract IMO without really knowing how much of their prisioner she became.) Shaking the whole time- she accepts the rose- as the man who says he loves her is so involved in his own emotions - he offers her no comfort. This Imo is not even a little of a love story. It is a tragedy. ABC  you should be ashamed.

But people can leave ... Frank, Brooks, Graham.

I wonder if they really can. I am sure they have improved the contracts since then to cover everything. IMO

just me wrote:

notarose wrote:

just me wrote:Peter is in love with 3 women. Peter is in love with 2 women.Imo Peter just wants all the women. Madi Imo is dragged by producers to torcherously stand and accept the rose so the show goes on. ( She signed a contract IMO without really knowing how much of their prisioner she became.) Shaking the whole time- she accepts the rose- as the man who says he loves her is so involved in his own emotions - he offers her no comfort. This Imo is not even a little of a love story. It is a tragedy. ABC  you should be ashamed.

But people can leave ... Frank, Brooks, Graham.

I wonder if they really can. I am sure they have improved the contracts since then to cover everything. IMO

True. I could see contracts changing to give tptb greater control.

I had another question about Madi, and I realize that this is treading on a sensitive matter. Twice in last night's show she talked about how "proud" she is in her decision to save herself for marriage. She also used the same word within the past week or two. Her repeated use of this word makes me wonder if, in some way, she felt under attack for her decision. As far as I can see, this has not been the case on this show. She brought Peter in rather late, but he has expressed respect for her choice. So have the other women (Hannah Ann and Victoria F. were only concerned about how Madi's expectations for Peter might impact both him and them.) Madi had apparently shared her decision with the house, and if there was any blowback, we have yet to hear of it. In fact, Madi appears to have been well-liked and respected by her fellow cast members.

It seems to me to be a rather odd word to use repeatedly for such a personal choice. Madi is almost 24 years old. It seems to me that at age 24, you should be at peace with your most deeply held convictions and personal choices. Madi made this decision according to her religion, her values, and what she believes will work best for her. I'm trying to think of any other circumstance where a person might express repeated pride in themselves over the course of just a few weeks. Maybe if you were fighting cancer and had to march yourself off to chemotherapy repeatedly? Or you were a soldier going into combat each day and had to gird yourself up for that? Expressing repeated pride for your decision to remain a virgin seems rather trivial by comparison.

To me there is a somewhat juvenile aspect to these repeated expressions of pride for what is in the end, merely a personal choice. IMO it gives Madi the appearance of being young, sheltered, and untested. Having made that decision, I think she just needs to own it without apology -- "This is me, this is who I am." That, combined with what I felt was her misplaced anger at Peter during the rose ceremony (there are a lot of possible emotions from her that I could have understood -- disappointment, disillusionment, sadness, etc., but anger was not one of them,) and I'm wondering if Madi is rather less mature than I had first thought.

This doesn't mean that I think Madi is a bad person by any means. I think that she's had a great season, along with a nearly flawless edit. It is to her credit that she is so well liked. It's just that the rose ceremony raised a few questions in my mind that have yet to be answered.

@Amethyst I hear you about your perception of her repeated use of the word pride when it comes to upholding her personal values and choices.

To me it is symptomatic of a few elements. 1. She seem to have had a very sheltered, protected life with very tight adherence to religious and moral principles that are vastly different than the majority of girls her age who live in other parts of the country. Or maybe even in her proximity. And her family life has been influential in her keeping these very personal values, possibly taking strength and fortitude by their support as she is growing up and facing these decisions and arguably comparing herself to the other girls that she encounters at school or on the court.
Which leads me to
2. Madison is a fierce and accomplished competitor and the word ‘ pride’ is used A LOT to foster and reward the efforts and progress of athletes that compete. You may not win but you’re ‘ proud ‘ of what you did, what you stood for, and playing your best. I think it is part of her vocabulary more than others because of the constant training and competition she has done and still is ingrained in her that she can be proud of what she has accomplished. She is used to have positive thinking and focusing before a match and it bleeds into her personal life as well.
I could see how she has reasons to be proud to have the determination and maturity to hold on to these values, DESPITE the many ‘ temptations’, pressure, manipulation and obstacles that she most likely already faced outside her family circle but were multiplied exponentially by being cast with all these women vying for Peter’s attention and affection. We may not have seen it, but I can imagine some of the comments she did get if and when she talked about this sensitive subject. We already saw a snippet of Victoria pretty much bashing her for not telling Peter earlier ( shown only on previews) and others rolling their eyes to question why she would have signed up for This show.
I do think her struggles to keep it together is real and she fought because she is used to fight for what she wants, and she fought because her feelings for Peter were more than she had anticipated and with the extra pressure of the producers around, it must have been Hell, and maybe she’s proud to have stood up to them. Even if it means they don’t like her because she didn’t ‘play ‘ by their rules.
And 3 . At 23- 24, I’m not sure most of us have come to be ‘ at peace with our deepest convictions’ ( I know for me it’s been a constant learning) and everyone has a different path and learning curve. She is quite young after all, but she seems more mature than many her age and her choices reflect that IMO.
JMOAA

Amethyst wrote: and I'm wondering if Madi is rather less mature than I had first thought.

I think Madi, Peter and even Hannah Ann are in many ways immature. There's an obvious lack of adult knowledge and life experience. The sad part is the producers know this and they have manipulated them all to the hilt. A more mature lead/contestant wouldn't have put up with as much or at least could better handle these situations.

Amethyst wrote:...snipped
It seems to me to be a rather odd word to use repeatedly for such a personal choice. Madi is almost 24 years old. It seems to me that at age 24, you should be at peace with your most deeply held convictions and personal choices. Madi made this decision according to her religion, her values, and what she believes will work best for her. I'm trying to think of any other circumstance where a person might express repeated pride in themselves over the course of just a few weeks. Maybe if you were fighting cancer and had to march yourself off to chemotherapy repeatedly? Or you were a soldier going into combat each day and had to gird yourself up for that? Expressing repeated pride for your decision to remain a virgin seems rather trivial by comparison.
...snipped

IMO Madi's conviction/belief/stance on this matter was what she thought would set her apart from the others - not necessarily to secure her the spot of F1 (I don't think she wanted to be) - possibly not even to be next Bette (though I think that may have been an option in her mind) - but IMO it was always going to be "her thing", and she expected/planned to make it part of her storyline.  A lot of what she says sounds rehearsed to me.  

IMO saving oneself for marriage is a concept which is sometimes "marketed" to girls in a way which suggests abstaining makes them special or "better than" other girls (e.g. the "men won't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free!" type thinking).  Personally, I think this can be problematic, because it implies men can't have sex with a woman and respect/cherish/care for her at the same time.  Which IMO, they most certainly can.

Bobette wrote:

Amethyst wrote:...snipped
It seems to me to be a rather odd word to use repeatedly for such a personal choice. Madi is almost 24 years old. It seems to me that at age 24, you should be at peace with your most deeply held convictions and personal choices. Madi made this decision according to her religion, her values, and what she believes will work best for her. I'm trying to think of any other circumstance where a person might express repeated pride in themselves over the course of just a few weeks. Maybe if you were fighting cancer and had to march yourself off to chemotherapy repeatedly? Or you were a soldier going into combat each day and had to gird yourself up for that? Expressing repeated pride for your decision to remain a virgin seems rather trivial by comparison.
...snipped

IMO Madi's conviction/belief/stance on this matter was what she thought would set her apart from the others - not necessarily to secure her the spot of F1 (I don't think she wanted to be) - possibly not even to be next Bette (though I think that may have been an option in her mind) - but IMO it was always going to be "her thing", and she expected/planned to make it part of her storyline.  A lot of what she says sounds rehearsed to me.  

IMO saving oneself for marriage is a concept which is sometimes "marketed" to girls in a way which suggests abstaining makes them special or "better than" other girls (e.g. the "men won't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free!" type thinking).  Personally, I think this can be problematic, because it implies men can't have sex with a woman and respect/cherish/care for her at the same time.  Which IMO, they most certainly can.

Peter pretty much told her that , he said that wasen't him but he would always respect her view and they don't have to be the same in that regard so that tells me he is willing to wait for her and he still wanted her there and told her " I can't lose you." Please don't leave. So obviously he loves her. If a guy loves you enough he will wait for marriage if that's what she wants. As strict as she is with her beliefs and morals I do think a part of her likes that little bad boy that turns her on. jmo