Rachael Kirkconnell - Bachelor 25 - Discussion

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Post by gabriele Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:52 pm

@lightredemption wrote:I really don't understand the conflation between 'couple standing by each other in tough times' and 'a black man having to stay with someone who has displayed acts of racism and ignorance in the past.' There is such a clear difference IMO and Matt, as a black man impacted by racism, shouldn't have to be the one to hold Rachel's hand and guide her through the process. I thought it was tremendously unfair of her to talk to him as though he was her one shot at true love and now, because he doesn't want to be with her she's never going to be able to love again etc. On top of everything else, why is she trying to make him feel guilty for that too?
This.

I honestly don’t have a problem with having compassion for Rachael—she has had her dirty laundry aired for the entire world to see and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone as the criticism has been fierce. But, to say that Matt should stand by her when as of a month ago she still doesn’t understand the depth of her racism is ridiculous imo.

I’ll say this again as a follower of Jesus: forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same thing. Reconciliation requires the person to actually change their harmful behavior and thinking.

Rachael just hasn’t done that yet and Matt is under no obligation to take her back.

jmo

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Post by Norcalgal Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:41 pm

How many of us have taught our children not to say or do things because they are insensitive to people who have different experiences? Kindness toward others is paramount. If Rachael is truly sorry, I'd like to see her work to remove all such plantation parties due to their insensitivity and racism. How about speaking to college students who want to hang onto those traditions about how hurtful their actions are.

I was abhorred when one of my sons, as a college freshman, had 3 young ladies create a powerpoint presentation on why he should choose them as his date to a big party. I railed on him and still do - made him write each of them a letter of apology and work to repay me for any expenses for that party and donate it to women's shelters. I told him it was so disrespectful to the young women as well as to women everywhere, especially his mom. To this day, those women are his friends and thank me for making him do restitution. I never hear a joke about women from him - he learned his lesson.


Been watching this crap show like forever
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Post by dee Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:11 pm

Why do I just know if the reason for break up wasn't about race and racism, the majority would have no issue with this relationship ending. No one said Hannah didn't love Jed enough or blamed her for not standing by Jed when his pre-show gf came to light. Many were rooting for her to dump the guy and were happy when she did. Yet when it's about some "mistakes from the past", direct actions that impact Matt's existence, he is expected to stand by his oppressor. I am not asking for Rachael to be attacked and harassed any further than I am sure she has received over time. But there are valid criticisms to be made. Matt can forgive her and still decide for himself that a reconciliation is not in the cards. He's not obligated to take her back just because he can forgive her. I had a huge problem with how the ATFR was framed, even with Emmanuel Acho as the host. The entire narrative and conversation was framed in a way to comfort White people. And sadly, the man that has been oppressed, is now the bad guy in the eyes of the public, attached with several damaging stereotypes of a black partner. I think the fact that Matt admitted that he had to personally explain to Rachael why her actions were problematic is a huge red flag. She didn't understand why Matt would break up with her. That told him all he needed to know at that moment in time. She just didn't and still doesn't get it, as of a few weeks ago.  All jmo.
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Post by luvstx Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:01 pm

@Norcalgal wrote:How many of us have taught our children not to say or do things because they are insensitive to people who have different experiences? Kindness toward others is paramount. If Rachael is truly sorry, I'd like to see her work to remove all such plantation parties due to their insensitivity and racism. How about speaking to college students who want to hang onto those traditions about how hurtful their actions are.

I was abhorred when one of my sons, as a college freshman, had 3 young ladies create a powerpoint presentation on why he should choose them as his date to a big party. I railed on him and still do - made him write each of them a letter of apology and work to repay me for any expenses for that party and donate it to women's shelters. I told him it was so disrespectful to the young women as well as to women everywhere, especially his mom. To this day, those women are his friends and thank me for making him do restitution. I never hear a joke about women from him - he learned his lesson.

You go girl!! What wonderful parenting. We’ve seen a lot of contestants on this show who would have benefited from tough,thoughtful parenting like yours.
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Post by Idlemess Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:34 pm

@dee wrote:Why do I just know if the reason for break up wasn't about race and racism, the majority would have no issue with this relationship ending. No one said Hannah didn't love Jed enough or blamed her for not standing by Jed when his pre-show gf came to light. Many were rooting for her to dump the guy and were happy when she did. Yet when it's about some "mistakes from the past", direct actions that impact Matt's existence, he is expected to stand by his oppressor. I am not asking for Rachael to be attacked and harassed any further than I am sure she has received over time. But there are valid criticisms to be made. Matt can forgive her and still decide for himself that a reconciliation is not in the cards. He's not obligated to take her back just because he can forgive her. I had a huge problem with how the ATFR was framed, even with Emmanuel Acho as the host. The entire narrative and conversation was framed in a way to comfort White people. And sadly, the man that has been oppressed, is now the bad guy in the eyes of the public, attached with several damaging stereotypes of a black partner. I think the fact that Matt admitted that he had to personally explain to Rachael why her actions were problematic is a huge red flag. She didn't understand why Matt would break up with her. That told him all he needed to know at that moment in time. She just didn't and still doesn't get it, as of a few weeks ago.  All jmo.

@Dee IMO this needs to be framed and posted to reflect the narrative on ATFR and it was edited to not beat the drum of racism to please the white audiences, their base, the "oh please, she did nothing wrong" "that was so long ago" crowd, the "cancel culture" "if Chris Harrison not back I'm not watching" people, etc.

I felt that Acho did a good job, but I wondered why he tried so hard for reconciliation from Matt and bandaid Rachael's flat responses. To me, she was not sincere and her answers were scripted. I felt based on Matt's deep pauses that there were much more than a pic at an Antebellum party. She didn't get it and neither do those who chooses to dismiss or disregard Matt's or BIPOC responses or feelings.
WHY DO BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO TEACH WHITE PEOPLE ABOUT RACISM?


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Post by Jane Austen Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:29 am

I am a woman of colour( mongoloid stock) and there is a certain level of racism and prejudice in every race ( whether we like it or not) Because that is the very nature of the fallen man. But to be racist is different. The very fact that just because someone is white and we think them to have a misplaced superior complex is also racism to a certain level. But as the host had said at the after...the intent/ motive is what makes one a racist.
Do I believe Hitler was a racist? Absolutely, because of his skewed and deplorable motive.
Do I believe Rachael's actions were racist? Yes, I believe she was racially insensitive but her motive in being a part of that party does not necessarily make her a racist.
Do I believe Rachael had real feelings for Matt? Absolutely, we can all see she is broken. She Def has a huge crush on him, but she will be more than ok in a while.
Do I believe Matt was hurt? Absolutely.
Is he obligated to stay on with Rachael , seeing she was so willing to work on herself and educate herself? Absolutely not.
If they truly love each other, they could work it out. I think the controversy was only some part of the cause of the break up. I believe just as Rachael needs to work on herself, Matt also needs to work on himself. I doubt if they are both ready for a real relationship.
Do I think they are both trying to the best of their ability to be good human beings with all their prejudices, weakness and imperfection? Absolutely
Let's be kind. We don't know what battle someone is fighting. God bless you all.

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Post by gabriele Wed Mar 17, 2021 8:59 am

I’ll be honest that I find some of the things being said here concerning. Matt not taking Rachael back isn’t due to a “lack of love”.

Rachael deceived Matt about an incredibly important part of who she is that directly affects him. He isn’t under any obligation to date Rachael after finding out this part of who she really is. Matt is allowed, like anyone, to have boundaries and preferences about who he is going to date especially when it comes to pursuing a marriage partner and the future mother of his biracial children.

When someone completely misrepresents who they are to you and then doesn’t grasp the enormity of that deception, intended or not, they have no right to expect the other person to take them back—even when they have done the work to change. Rachael, despite her recent social media posts, has not done the work yet.

The problem here is not on Matt having a lack of love but on Rachael first for deceiving Matt about her racism and then not dealing with it adequately. That is a lack of love. People trying to turn this around and paint Matt as the bad guy is some really twisted thinking. jmo

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Post by GuardianAngel Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:27 pm

I have no idea what is being said on SM and quite frankly I don't care however what is the justification in blaming Matt for any of this???

This is what I meant in another post in another thread. If he was strong enough he could have told it like it is, being very frank and straight forward to Rachel, and to the point of any questions being asked. A Rocky moment!

I didn't see the part when EA asked him to hug her, and I don't know what he said, but I would have said, I don't feel it's appropriate. When she took his hand, he could have taken his hand away. When she put her hand on his leg, he could have moved. This would have shown her and the viewers he's done with her.

I understand the situation he was in and was put in was horrible. He could have even mentioned indirectly more vetting should be done on the contestants to stick it to TPTB. I just would have liked to have seen a "you tell em" moment.

I always said he isn't ready for marriage, but what I do hope is he meets someone real soon who he can have fun with and enjoy a relationship with someone who likes him for who he is. JMO's.


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Post by Sprite Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:53 pm

@GuardianAngel If he had said anything that would stick it to them I'm sure they would have edited out. I think he gave them the bare minimum so that they couldn't screw around with anything. I too would have pulled away as soon as she started touching him. IMO She had a game plan and ran with it and the result is that currently on sm he is the one being negatively blasted and she is the victim.

I was reading RS and his readers emails today and most are siding with her. RS also seems to be tilting that way despite all his recent education in the matter. I have a feeling someone from her side is feeding him info.

What bothered me the most about the AFTR was when EO asked them to hug. I was like WTH? That was totally inappropriate and the one spot where he failed big time. I feel for Matt. He was screwed from top to bottom with this season. I know he wasn't ready for marriage or an engagement, but seriously how many of the male leads were?


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Post by gabriele Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:06 pm

I think Matt may have been trying to avoid coming across like an “angry black man”. Honestly, what a horrid position he was in.

RS talked about having someone from Rachael’s family come on his podcast at one point, so he’s definitely hearing things from them. He says there is a lot more that has gone on behind the scenes with the breakup but won’t divulge anything further about it.

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Post by GuardianAngel Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:08 pm

He was definitely screwed over, I just don't know why they messed up this opportunity. I also have no idea or see any logic why he would be blamed for anything.



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Post by suzq Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:47 pm

I think they focused more on Matt, Rachael and their issues, so they didn't have to address the institutional changes needed in the Franchise concerning Production, Chris Harrison, etc. It felt like they were (and still are) trying to sweep these issues under the rug. All JMO.

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