Re: Update on the *Possible* F1/F2 - Thread #2

[ironcat]

We have to be realistic here no matter how much we like someone, and no matter we want to jump on his train and ride it into lah-lah land. He has a wonderful smile, but Ashley WAS saying those things about Bentley all along the way, and she is the one in episode 5 that wanted to be able to see Bentley again, but she couldn't quit thinking about BENTLEY and ...

I made this point last night in VO thread but I think it's relevant here so I'll repeat it. I watched back that particular scene and what struck me is that Ashley's emphasis seemed to be the trust issues that Bent's departure left her with and how she was afraid to fall for somebody because she was afraid he would leave her too. People have interpreted Ashley's comment as another pining away comment but watching it back, I thought it was actually a trust issues comment.

Here's a transcription of the VOs:

"My biggest fear is [shot goes from Ben F to Ames to Blake] I'm going to fall for somebody and they're not going to feel the same way and [cut to Ashley sitting down 1 on 1 with JP] I'm so scared that what happened with Bentley is going to happen again."
"I don't know! I want to be sure that it is a 2 way street"

[PI in more casual black outfit] "I like JP so much and I want him to know that what I feel for him is real and that I want him here. [VO] But I'm really scared to get hurt and the truth is, I'm still thinking about Bentley. I am, I can't lie about this. [PI from cocktail party] AGH. I need to stop, I need to stop thinking about this."

There's a more in depth analysis to done here to figure out what comes from when and there's obviously splice and dice here. But I think there's a real case to be made that whatever Ashley may or may not have felt when Bent left, her concern at this point in filming is somebody else she's falling for also leaving. I think there may be something to the theory that Ashley kept talking about Bent because she thought Bent was the deus ex machina to talk about trust issues and being scared to take a leap of faith, not because she was still pining away. She went from saying "thinking about Bentley" to saying she needed to "stop thinking about this" which to me says she was thinking about trust issues that arose from him leaving not him.

That is a good point, and if you change the comment from "thinking about Bentley" to "thinking about what happened with Bentley", it totally changes the meaning. That's a pretty easy editing job, isn't it?

[Nibbles22]

Maybe - just maybe there is an argument for what Bentley says, or what Bentley maybe says, doesn't really say, supposedly says, spliced and diced says, "we didn't actually see Bentley say that at the time" says, etc. - but we are watching Ashley in time say what she says about Bentley, and this is after she has been loving on all of the guys including Ben, but especially JP who is supposed to be our hero who she has actually been falling in love with all this time.

We have to be realistic here no matter how much we like someone, and no matter we want to jump on his train and ride it into lah-lah land. He has a wonderful smile, but Ashley WAS saying those things about Bentley all along the way, and she is the one in episode 5 that wanted to be able to see Bentley again, but she couldn't quit thinking about BENTLEY and ...

The truth is that we will NEVER know whether Ashley would have gone with Bentley if he had given her the chance. He didn't, and we don't know. The edit leads us to believe there is every chance she would have. He was in the driver's seat and in charge with the ... She said she would be satisfied if he closed the book on the two of them. At this point, she could then move on.

Bloomers ~ you know I have never had my favorite in the F1 position. You've got to allow me the
fantasy! I can't be realistic here!!

[anders]

I don't think the crying was all about Bentley. It escalated her fears that this might not work when she put so much faith into it (IMO). She was worried more guys would drop. I would be terrified if I ended up with some horrible F1 after six weeks of this.

I agree - it wasn't all about Bentley, he just was the first man to bring out that insecurity in her. I'm sure she's had many other 'moments' when she was tucked away at her place that we were never privy to.

[sjcaligurl]

I agree that her behavior was less about Bentley and more about her own fears being realized. At the same time, look at Ali and Roberto. Ali really was attracted to Frank and I think she wanted him to at least be F2 because he was her 'type.' While I do think she would have chosen Roberto in the end, Frank was the kind of guy she was used to/fancied as guys like Roberto were not ever in her reach. I wonder how they worked through her meltdown over Frank leaving right at the end. Roberto did touch on it at Brad's ATFR. I think Ashley's 'obsession' is easier to explain that Ali's attraction to Frank as it was more than just something physical. There is a reason why Roberto can be friends with ChrisL and probably not Frank. LOL!

[Bloomers]

I agree that her behavior was less about Bentley and more about her own fears being realized. At the same time, look at Ali and Roberto. Ali really was attracted to Frank and I think she wanted him to at least be F2 because he was her 'type.' While I do think she would have chosen Roberto in the end, Frank was the kind of guy she was used to/fancied as guys like Roberto were not ever in her reach. I wonder how they worked through her meltdown over Frank leaving right at the end. Roberto did touch on it at Brad's ATFR. I think Ashley's 'obsession' is easier to explain that Ali's attraction to Frank as it was more than just something physical. There is a reason why Roberto can be friends with ChrisL and probably not Frank. LOL!

My personal opinion in retrospect was that the producers wanted an F1/F2 Roberto/Frank scenario - the quirky, creative, but unstable guy she had always been attracted to versus the hot but stable, successful guy she had felt she had never had a chance with in life.
However, we know from inside that from as earlier as the 2nd episode Frank began making noises about wanting to leave, and they more or less coerced him one way or the other into staying until the Fantasy Date and then made him pay for not playing along with the edit he got.

Now Bentley....even if Bentley had stayed, he would at best only made it to F2 ( her fantasy ideal) but not the F1. In reality, the hometown date would end the future plans if nothing else did it - which others things might.

Michelle told somebody that it would never work because Bentley was Mormon and Ashley was atheist. Now, it doesn't matter whether Bentley appears to be a good Mormon or not by his actions. The hometown would show a good Mormon family. I will remind us of Lanny's mother and her views, and I will remind us of Moana's Dad and stepmother's religious views. This show is brutal when it comes to hometowns and the edits.
We would see why Ashley would not "fit" into this Mormon family in Utah. Therefore, no matter what else we saw about Bentley, he would end up being the F2 at the FRC.

Actually, come to think of it, it might have made a good show except that I am NEVER in favor of when the producers mock people's religious views at the hometowns. I would have liked it if they could have done it tastefully.

[noobsleuth]

I agree that her behavior was less about Bentley and more about her own fears being realized. At the same time, look at Ali and Roberto. Ali really was attracted to Frank and I think she wanted him to at least be F2 because he was her 'type.' While I do think she would have chosen Roberto in the end, Frank was the kind of guy she was used to/fancied as guys like Roberto were not ever in her reach. I wonder how they worked through her meltdown over Frank leaving right at the end. Roberto did touch on it at Brad's ATFR. I think Ashley's 'obsession' is easier to explain that Ali's attraction to Frank as it was more than just something physical. There is a reason why Roberto can be friends with ChrisL and probably not Frank. LOL!

My personal opinion in retrospect was that the producers wanted an F1/F2 Roberto/Frank scenario - the quirky, creative, but unstable guy she had always been attracted to versus the hot but stable, successful guy she had felt she had never had a chance with in life.
However, we know from inside that from as earlier as the 2nd episode Frank began making noises about wanting to leave, and they more or less coerced him one way or the other into staying until the Fantasy Date and then made him pay for not playing along with the edit he got.

Now Bentley....even if Bentley had stayed, he would at best only made it to F2 ( her fantasy ideal) but not the F1. In reality, the hometown date would end the future plans if nothing else did it - which others things might.

Michelle told somebody that it would never work because Bentley was Mormon and Ashley was atheist. Now, it doesn't matter whether Bentley appears to be a good Mormon or not by his actions. The hometown would show a good Mormon family. I will remind us of Lanny's mother and her views, and I will remind us of Moana's Dad and stepmother's religious views. This show is brutal when it comes to hometowns and the edits.
We would see why Ashley would not "fit" into this Mormon family in Utah. Therefore, no matter what else we saw about Bentley, he would end up being the F2 at the FRC.

Actually, come to think of it, it might have made a good show except that I am NEVER in favor of when the producers mock people's religious views at the hometowns. I would have liked it if they could have done it tastefully.

Ashley is an athiest?!?! and engaged to a Jew... sounds complicated. Hopefully they can figure it all out.

[Guest]

I agree that her behavior was less about Bentley and more about her own fears being realized. At the same time, look at Ali and Roberto. Ali really was attracted to Frank and I think she wanted him to at least be F2 because he was her 'type.' While I do think she would have chosen Roberto in the end, Frank was the kind of guy she was used to/fancied as guys like Roberto were not ever in her reach. I wonder how they worked through her meltdown over Frank leaving right at the end. Roberto did touch on it at Brad's ATFR. I think Ashley's 'obsession' is easier to explain that Ali's attraction to Frank as it was more than just something physical. There is a reason why Roberto can be friends with ChrisL and probably not Frank. LOL!

My personal opinion in retrospect was that the producers wanted an F1/F2 Roberto/Frank scenario - the quirky, creative, but unstable guy she had always been attracted to versus the hot but stable, successful guy she had felt she had never had a chance with in life.
However, we know from inside that from as earlier as the 2nd episode Frank began making noises about wanting to leave, and they more or less coerced him one way or the other into staying until the Fantasy Date and then made him pay for not playing along with the edit he got.

Now Bentley....even if Bentley had stayed, he would at best only made it to F2 ( her fantasy ideal) but not the F1. In reality, the hometown date would end the future plans if nothing else did it - which others things might.

Michelle told somebody that it would never work because Bentley was Mormon and Ashley was atheist. Now, it doesn't matter whether Bentley appears to be a good Mormon or not by his actions. The hometown would show a good Mormon family. I will remind us of Lanny's mother and her views, and I will remind us of Moana's Dad and stepmother's religious views. This show is brutal when it comes to hometowns and the edits.
We would see why Ashley would not "fit" into this Mormon family in Utah. Therefore, no matter what else we saw about Bentley, he would end up being the F2 at the FRC.

Actually, come to think of it, it might have made a good show except that I am NEVER in favor of when the producers mock people's religious views at the hometowns. I would have liked it if they could have done it tastefully.

Ashley is an athiest?!?! and engaged to a Jew... sounds complicated. Hopefully they can figure it all out.

This was rumored to be false. Michelle Money was involved and I don't trust her character at all. It will probably be brought up in the media rounds after the finale.

I don't remember what thread it was but a few people were talking about JP and religion. Might be in his personal thread?

[Alanna]

Once again, I'm beginning to think I need remedial reading comprehension class because I'm confused. How could Bentley ever have been her F1? There's no way he would have kept up with the charade for 8 weeks, it's just impossible. He hates that girl for whatever reason. Or are we saying would he be F1 over JP if he was legit? Well maybe! But would Deanna and Graham be married now if he was in love with her? Would Ali be planning a wedding with Frank if he was legit?

Obviously everything goes down only once and there's no going back. Bentley was a dbag and there was no way Ashley was getting engaged to him.

[Bloomers]

I agree that her behavior was less about Bentley and more about her own fears being realized. At the same time, look at Ali and Roberto. Ali really was attracted to Frank and I think she wanted him to at least be F2 because he was her 'type.' While I do think she would have chosen Roberto in the end, Frank was the kind of guy she was used to/fancied as guys like Roberto were not ever in her reach. I wonder how they worked through her meltdown over Frank leaving right at the end. Roberto did touch on it at Brad's ATFR. I think Ashley's 'obsession' is easier to explain that Ali's attraction to Frank as it was more than just something physical. There is a reason why Roberto can be friends with ChrisL and probably not Frank. LOL!

My personal opinion in retrospect was that the producers wanted an F1/F2 Roberto/Frank scenario - the quirky, creative, but unstable guy she had always been attracted to versus the hot but stable, successful guy she had felt she had never had a chance with in life.
However, we know from inside that from as earlier as the 2nd episode Frank began making noises about wanting to leave, and they more or less coerced him one way or the other into staying until the Fantasy Date and then made him pay for not playing along with the edit he got.

Now Bentley....even if Bentley had stayed, he would at best only made it to F2 ( her fantasy ideal) but not the F1. In reality, the hometown date would end the future plans if nothing else did it - which others things might.

Michelle told somebody that it would never work because Bentley was Mormon and Ashley was atheist. Now, it doesn't matter whether Bentley appears to be a good Mormon or not by his actions. The hometown would show a good Mormon family. I will remind us of Lanny's mother and her views, and I will remind us of Moana's Dad and stepmother's religious views. This show is brutal when it comes to hometowns and the edits.
We would see why Ashley would not "fit" into this Mormon family in Utah. Therefore, no matter what else we saw about Bentley, he would end up being the F2 at the FRC.

Actually, come to think of it, it might have made a good show except that I am NEVER in favor of when the producers mock people's religious views at the hometowns. I would have liked it if they could have done it tastefully.

Ashley is an athiest?!?! and engaged to a Jew... sounds complicated. Hopefully they can figure it all out.

This was rumored to be false. Michelle Money was involved and I don't trust her character at all. It will probably be brought up in the media rounds after the finale.

I don't remember what thread it was but a few people were talking about JP and religion. Might be in his personal thread?

Even though Michelle might have a shady past herself, she would have no reason to want to hurt Ashley. As it appears, she was right about Bentley and his motives. Michelle was in the house with Ashley. All of them had a lot of time to just talk and nothing much else to do. Do we know for sure that the statement concerning the atheism is a rumor?
We do know that Reality Steve indicates that he believes the reason that Constantine is out is because of religion, and RS seems to think Constantine may be the one to take himself out. Maybe Ashley and Constantine had a friendly parting of the ways on religious beliefs? We won't see that, of course, because it is much too controversial, though.

[Hotmomma]

I think we can discern from how Ashley fell for Bentley, that when she falls, she falls hard and that she is very "focused" :giggle: Night one, from what we could see from the edit, she was attracted to Bentley, JP, Ryan and I think William. I think it quickley faded with Ryan and William, it "flamed" and then subsided with Bentley.... but JP was the slow burn that was constant throughout filming. I think that even if Bentley would have stayed, she would have eventually went with JP anyway as I think that eventually Bentley's nastiness would have shown through and even she would have seen it. I don't think the other guys were ever even considered by her and I think the guys picked up on that. Many are assuming that the reason the guys are leaving is because they weren't attracted to her, but I think it's more like she never lead them on enough for them to get in to deep and become heartbroken, so to speak.

This is an excellent post..

[anders]

Once again, I'm beginning to think I need remedial reading comprehension class because I'm confused. How could Bentley ever have been her F1? There's no way he would have kept up with the charade for 8 weeks, it's just impossible. He hates that girl for whatever reason. Or are we saying would he be F1 over JP if he was legit? Well maybe! But would Deanna and Graham be married now if he was in love with her? Would Ali be planning a wedding with Frank if he was legit?

Obviously everything goes down only once and there's no going back. Bentley was a dbag and there was no way Ashley was getting engaged to him.

you're right - he never would've been her f1 - although I do wonder how long it would've taken her to see the real Bent- I posted this earlier in the thread

she was so infatuated in who she imaged Bent to be that she just couldn't see him clearly in those 8 days. Given time, she would've picked up the cues that he was what others had warned her about. It took Jill a while to really see Wes for who he was. Had Bent stayed, I have faith she would've seen the real Bent.

[philphan]

I think we can discern from how Ashley fell for Bentley, that when she falls, she falls hard and that she is very "focused" :giggle: Night one, from what we could see from the edit, she was attracted to Bentley, JP, Ryan and I think William. I think it quickley faded with Ryan and William, it "flamed" and then subsided with Bentley.... but JP was the slow burn that was constant throughout filming. I think that even if Bentley would have stayed, she would have eventually went with JP anyway as I think that eventually Bentley's nastiness would have shown through and even she would have seen it. I don't think the other guys were ever even considered by her and I think the guys picked up on that. Many are assuming that the reason the guys are leaving is because they weren't attracted to her, but I think it's more like she never lead them on enough for them to get in to deep and become heartbroken, so to speak.

This is an excellent post..

My thoughts exactly....you summed it up perfectly! :Nod:

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