Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[ironcat]

   enjoyed reading your comments. I agree, the "contract" has it's holes.  It's likely much tighter regarding the lead because the future financial perks are much more lucrative but for contestants there are limitations on what the franchise can effectively enforce and it would be more of a headache to try to enforce.  It would open up the franchise to greater transparency than think it wants.

I've read an old contract and it's written in such a way that it could be used for either the lead or a contestant (eg "if I and the Bachelor (or, if I am the Bachelor, I and any of the Bachelorettes)"); I don't think the contract per se is tighter but the effect of it is - as you point out the lead has more "at stake" because the goodwill of the show can mean more to the lead in terms of lucrative opportunities down the road. The notion of the show taking legal steps to collect on that punitive clause boggles my mind because of the negative publicity and what could / would come out at trial (and in public) if someone chose to contest the contract. And with $5,000,000 at stake who would NOT contest it????

There may be more but I am only aware of one instance where the contract was challenged by someone and the show folded like a cheap camera.

They'd certainly be waiting a loooong time to collect their $5 million from most of these underemployed contestants.   

The lead definitely has more incentive to stay on the producers' good side, so no surprise that Andi wouldn't violate it, if that option even presented itself with Nick. Look what happened to JPG, losing his chance to be on DWTS.

[notarose]

   enjoyed reading your comments. I agree, the "contract" has it's holes.  It's likely much tighter regarding the lead because the future financial perks are much more lucrative but for contestants there are limitations on what the franchise can effectively enforce and it would be more of a headache to try to enforce.  It would open up the franchise to greater transparency than think it wants.

I've read an old contract and it's written in such a way that it could be used for either the lead or a contestant (eg "if I and the Bachelor (or, if I am the Bachelor, I and any of the Bachelorettes)"); I don't think the contract per se is tighter but the effect of it is - as you point out the lead has more "at stake" because the goodwill of the show can mean more to the lead in terms of lucrative opportunities down the road. The notion of the show taking legal steps to collect on that punitive clause boggles my mind because of the negative publicity and what could / would come out at trial (and in public) if someone chose to contest the contract. And with $5,000,000 at stake who would NOT contest it????

There may be more but I am only aware of one instance where the contract was challenged by someone and the show folded like a cheap camera.

    Thanks for the info.  
I imagine some of the contestants would get legal advice in advance and would be aware of what you've said.  Since we're in the Nick thread I'll speculate that his employee SalesForce, which has a legal team per region, would have been easily available to him at whichever points in time he might have approached them.  
Nick was shown in pics with several employees during the show's airing and near ATFR with his regional director.  Just an observation that may be unrelated to contract however it does speak to strong ties to his "real" job and obviously none of his colleagues were concerned about that one time he was on tv.

    "Long line..." Good one, Ironcat!

[Lucas15]

I imagine some of the contestants would get legal advice in advance and would be aware of what you've said.  Since we're in the Nick thread I'll speculate that his employee SalesForce, which has a legal team per region, would have been easily available to him at whichever points in time he might have approached them.

I think anyone with a brain should get legal advice before signing the contract. Especially THIS contract. But I don't think most of them actually do. The situation I'm thinking of was not something that came up at the time the contract was signed, but something that came up afterwards. The lead may have either a little or a lot of leverage to negotiate their contract depending on how badly the show wants them, which is why we hear that some leads got paid $50,000 and others got paid $250,000. Unfortunately a contestant has very little leverage to negotiate. If they don't like the contract the show simply doesn't cast them and goes to someone else that will sign; there's lots of options for the show and none for a would-be contestant.

I'm sure that SalesForce has an on-staff legal team but from my experience with companies that had legal teams, as an employee you might get friendly advice but not anything more. Real legal representation could potentially be a conflict of interest (for example they might have to represent the company in an action against an employee) and the legal team would advise you to hire your own attorney.

[stuckinsc]

I gotta disagree with the speculation that Nick wouldn't have proposed had she chosen him.  He called what they did in the FS "fiance stuff", he did ask for Hy's permission, and we also know that he would have gotten strong encouragement (which I don't believe he would have needed) from producers to propose, so as not to end up with another season like the one before.  And if he was having such strong doubts about wanting to spend his life with Andi, I don't think he would have been so pissed off and devastated on the plane to have needed to blab.

Another hypothetical for any takers-  Let's say Nick had never spoken out on the plane, or it hadn't been heard/recorded.  How differently do people think the season would have played out with the edit/manipulations?  Would Nick have gotten a better edit?  Would he not have made any attempts to see Andi?  He did indicate he was at least considering writing her a letter.  Can all of Nick's post show behavior really be blamed on that breach of contract?

I do agree that if Nick had left things alone post show and been quiet as a church mouse, Andi probably would have thrown some more compassion/contriteness his way at the ATFR.

IC, this is only my opinion.  I think the letter and the attempts to contact Andi came from TPTB planting seeds of doubt in his ear.  Andi isn't happy with Josh, it isn't what she thought it would be.  Even on the plane video with Nick talking about Jason and Molly, to me that was his handler mentioning that in the couple of days they held him in seclusion.

Without the prodding from TPTB, I think Nick would have let go, but that is only my opinion and not fact and honestly, there is no way to ever know since the video was taken.

I also think that Andi not clearly stating that she just loved Josh more when she let Nick go made this manipulation easier.  I have posted this opinion before and well, not many agree.

I also thought Andi's extended talking about JPG last season was TPTB encouraged and not Andi motivated.

Stuck, I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.  The producers definitely saw what they had and fanned the flames.  They don't always get a season where the final two people REALLY fall for the lead, and the lead REALLY sees a future with both of them until late in the game.  This was one. But I also think they would have done the same even if there had been no video to hold over his head, and I think that Nick would have gone along.  

He may have. Again, we will never know. I truly believe that Nick feel in love with Andi. I don't necessarily blame him for reaching out if he is being told she was not happy. How many of us after a particularly heartbreaking breakup wouldn't try again if someone we loved wanted us to? Should he have been suspicious that it was coming from TPTB and not Andi herself? Yes, but then again, as he watched the season, Andi had shown with Eric and others that she was proud and maybe would not be open to seeing him unless she was sure he would take her back. I don't ever see Andi as we were shown begging for forgiveness and a second chance. I more see her granting one.

I think TPTB really wanted Josh as the bachelor. I think they would have been more than happy for Andi to change her mind and pull a Mesnick. I think they even edited the show to downplay the Josh and Andi connection and play up the Nick and Andi connection.

[stuckinsc]

Lucas, you have posted repeatedly that Andi as a lawyer knew that she was never going to get to talk to Nick alone, even though Emily was able to talk to Sean on the phone after her season and would have been allowed to talk to Arie if she wanted to.

If Andi realized that, isn't it reasonable that Andi might have understood that Nick was also being manipulated by TPTB and maybe come out and play the AFTR as the nice woman who was sorry he was still heartbroken instead of being so cold. I understand her anger, but again, as a smart woman, if you want the public on your side, usually compassion is much more well received than coldness or anger. Some gentleness on her part to start with would have made Nick and his declaration look bad. Instead her anger/coldness made it a debate instead of him just being a jerk.

Nick had to play the TPTB game, just like she did. Her understanding of this, IMO, would have served her in showing something softer instead of coming out hard. Yes, I do compare her to Meredith, who had directly told Matthew she would be honored to get a ring from him and Ashley with Ben. Both those women came out a little bit compassionate for the men who they dumped. Very few blamed them afterwards.

[luvlady345]

But they do that to every F2 play up the F2 person in the edit, to put on the show and really did they hide Josh/Andi's connection? Because the unspoiled people on this site all had Josh as F1, but I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder..

[luvlady345]

Seriously, if this was in RL and not part of a TV show, would any woman after breaking off with a guy and engaged to another would you be friendly to that guy if he tried to contact you through a letter, other people, posting pictures on SM of y'all knowing that you were engaged to someone else....  Just think about it leave Nick and Andi out of it.....  How creepy would that be?  After you broke it off, it's not like she didn't break it off she did.....  I don't know, it would be frightening and strange to me.....

[Alanna]

But they do that to every F2 play up the F2 person in the edit,  to put on the show and really did they hide Josh/Andi's connection?  Because the unspoiled people on this site all had Josh as F1, but I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder..

TV Guide ran a poll for their general audience and something like 70% thought Josh was f1, so I think no. If Nick missed it while watching the show, that's on Nick and his own "rose colored" glasses imo.

[motheroffive]

Lucas, you have posted repeatedly that Andi as a lawyer knew that she was never going to get to talk to Nick alone, even though Emily was able to talk to Sean on the phone after her season and would have been allowed to talk to Arie if she wanted to.

If Andi realized that, isn't it reasonable that Andi might have understood that Nick was also being manipulated by TPTB and maybe come out and play the AFTR as the nice woman who was sorry he was still heartbroken instead of being so cold.  I understand her anger, but again, as a smart woman, if you want the public on your side, usually compassion is much more well received than coldness or anger.  Some gentleness on her part to start with would have made Nick and his declaration look bad.  Instead her anger/coldness made it a debate instead of him just being a jerk.

Nick had to play the TPTB game, just like she did.  Her understanding of this, IMO, would have served her in showing something softer instead of coming out hard.  Yes, I do compare her to Meredith, who had directly told Matthew she would be honored to get a ring from him and Ashley with Ben.  Both those women came out a little bit compassionate for the men who they dumped.  Very few blamed them afterwards.

Just for the sake of accuracy in this ongoing conversation, Sean has said that he got Emily's number from a mutual acquaintance, called her and left a message. She never called him back.

[notarose]

I imagine some of the contestants would get legal advice in advance and would be aware of what you've said.  Since we're in the Nick thread I'll speculate that his employee SalesForce, which has a legal team per region, would have been easily available to him at whichever points in time he might have approached them.

I think anyone with a brain should get legal advice before signing the contract. Especially THIS contract. But I don't think most of them actually do. The situation I'm thinking of was not something that came up at the time the contract was signed, but something that came up afterwards. The lead may have either a little or a lot of leverage to negotiate their contract depending on how badly the show wants them, which is why we hear that some leads got paid $50,000 and others got paid $250,000. Unfortunately a contestant has very little leverage to negotiate. If they don't like the contract the show simply doesn't cast them and goes to someone else that will sign; there's lots of options for the show and none for a would-be contestant.

I'm sure that SalesForce has an on-staff legal team but from my experience with companies that had legal teams, as an employee you might get friendly advice but not anything more. Real legal representation could potentially be a conflict of interest (for example they might have to represent the company in an action against an employee) and the legal team would advise you to hire your own attorney.

   on point

[albean99]

But they do that to every F2 play up the F2 person in the edit,  to put on the show and really did they hide Josh/Andi's connection?  Because the unspoiled people on this site all had Josh as F1, but I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder..

TV Guide ran a poll for their general audience and something like 70% thought Josh was f1, so I think no. If Nick missed it while watching the show, that's on Nick and his own "rose colored" glasses imo.

I know a bunch of unspoiled people that were convinced Nick was f1 and these were not Nick fans. I felt the spoiler was right and there were a lot of SM clues but without that I wouldn't have put Josh ahead other than maybe her calling him "babe" so much.

[SueSt]

But they do that to every F2 play up the F2 person in the edit,  to put on the show and really did they hide Josh/Andi's connection?  Because the unspoiled people on this site all had Josh as F1, but I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder..

I was unspoiled for the first 5 epis and picked Nick for F1.... The connection between Nick and Andi was so strong to my eyes that even after I read the spoilers I called Nick for F1.

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