Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[SueSt]

Let me clarify what I meant since I see it was taken wrong.  I was speaking of only UNSPOILED viewers.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone who posts on this board falls into the"educated" category;  ie, educated about the show and on the lookout for producer tricks.  I don't think it's a coincidence that unspoiled posters here all saw through the edit and were sure it was Josh.  I suspect the spoiled here who thought it was Nick might have been partly influenced/motivated by wishful thinking and by wanting RS to be wrong JMO, didn't mean to offend.

Thanks for clarifying. No worries.  

[atem]

I'd give 99.9% of it to a sulky Nick being a Drama King on the phone.

That and the yellow ribbon.

[Sprite]

Lucas, you have posted repeatedly that Andi as a lawyer knew that she was never going to get to talk to Nick alone, even though Emily was able to talk to Sean on the phone after her season and would have been allowed to talk to Arie if she wanted to.

If Andi realized that, isn't it reasonable that Andi might have understood that Nick was also being manipulated by TPTB and maybe come out and play the AFTR as the nice woman who was sorry he was still heartbroken instead of being so cold.  I understand her anger, but again, as a smart woman, if you want the public on your side, usually compassion is much more well received than coldness or anger.  Some gentleness on her part to start with would have made Nick and his declaration look bad.  Instead her anger/coldness made it a debate instead of him just being a jerk.

Nick had to play the TPTB game, just like she did.  Her understanding of this, IMO, would have served her in showing something softer instead of coming out hard.  Yes, I do compare her to Meredith, who had directly told Matthew she would be honored to get a ring from him and Ashley with Ben.  Both those women came out a little bit compassionate for the men who they dumped.  Very few blamed them afterwards.

If she couldn't come across as warm and caring during her little chat with CH about Eric's death,...I mean a man died!....it doesn't exactly surprise me that she couldn't be all warm and fuzzy with Nick at the AFTR since by this time you knew she thought he was just a major pain in the a** and she was so done with him.

[Lucas15]

Lucas, you have posted repeatedly that Andi as a lawyer knew that she was never going to get to talk to Nick alone, even though Emily was able to talk to Sean on the phone after her season and would have been allowed to talk to Arie if she wanted to.

If Andi realized that, isn't it reasonable that Andi might have understood that Nick was also being manipulated by TPTB and maybe come out and play the AFTR as the nice woman who was sorry he was still heartbroken instead of being so cold.  I understand her anger, but again, as a smart woman, if you want the public on your side, usually compassion is much more well received than coldness or anger.  Some gentleness on her part to start with would have made Nick and his declaration look bad.  Instead her anger/coldness made it a debate instead of him just being a jerk.

Nick had to play the TPTB game, just like she did.  Her understanding of this, IMO, would have served her in showing something softer instead of coming out hard.  Yes, I do compare her to Meredith, who had directly told Matthew she would be honored to get a ring from him and Ashley with Ben.  Both those women came out a little bit compassionate for the men who they dumped.  Very few blamed them afterwards.

Just for the sake of accuracy in this ongoing conversation, Sean has said that he got Emily's number from a mutual acquaintance, called her and left a message. She never called him back.

Thank you.  I only heard that he had talked to Emily after taping.  I may have misunderstood.

Thanks for that piece of information.

The contract specifically forbids contact "except as otherwise requested by Producer". Now I think we all know that (at least recently) this is probably one of the most frequently breached clauses in the contract, but I believe that someone like Andi who is an attorney has a more acute respect for contract law and is not going to knowingly breach her contract. The fact that other people in the past might have violated this clause doesn't mean that Andi has an acceptable excuse for doing the same.

[unknown82]

The one thing that cracks me up and people seem to be assuming, since Andi didn't pick Nick, is that Nick was bad in bed. I totally find that so hard to believe especially by they way Andi was talking to her sister at the MTP and stating that Nick made her feel like a woman with the biggest grin on her face. I mean, it is pretty obvious to see that Nick did not disappoint when it came to that area! It was also pretty obvious that Andi wanted to eat her cake and have it but I don't think she was banking on Nick asking her that very legit question he asked her at the ATFR! Andi picked Josh and that is fine but let's not say that one of the reasons was because Nick was bad in bed, IMHO.

[SueSt]

The one thing that cracks me up and people seem to be assuming, since Andi didn't pick Nick, is that Nick was bad in bed.  I totally find that so hard to believe especially by they way Andi was talking to her sister at the MTP and stating that Nick made her feel like a woman with the biggest grin on her face.  I mean, it is pretty obvious to see that Nick did not disappoint when it came to that area!  It was also pretty obvious that Andi wanted to eat her cake and have it but I don't think she was banking on Nick asking her that very legit question he asked her at the ATFR!  Andi picked Josh and that is fine but let's not say that one of the reasons was because Nick was bad in bed, IMHO.

ABSOLUTELY YES.  God bless the producers for leaving this critical bit of information in the episode!  
Made her feel like a woman, so romantic, never felt this before... and the look on her face, priceless!
I mean, really... it was only fair to Nick!!   

[GuardianAngel]

Let me clarify what I meant since I see it was taken wrong.  I was speaking of only UNSPOILED viewers.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone who posts on this board falls into the"educated" category;  ie, educated about the show and on the lookout for producer tricks.  I don't think it's a coincidence that unspoiled posters here all saw through the edit and were sure it was Josh.  I suspect the spoiled here who thought it was Nick might have been partly influenced/motivated by wishful thinking and by wanting RS to be wrong JMO, didn't mean to offend.

I  understood what you meant.   

Here's the other side of the coin, if I may.

Some of the educated posters on this forum, took SM out of the equation, and by that I mean to include posts on this forum as well, in order to analyze as much as possible. IMO If it wasn't for the SM activity, the edit showed a very different F1. Up until the FS date. Then we can see Andi wasn't so much into him that day. She needed to remind Nick of his broken engagement and how long it took him to get over it. Sort of like, round 2 coming up forshadowing.

She went from "I have a mental connection with him," she gushes. "It's something that intrigues me, it's something that excites me. When Nick looks at me, he just gets me. He's got that passion." "Nick said he loves me," Andi coos. "I feel hopeful and safe, and I feel like when Nick looks at me, he sees every part of me—my heart, my mind, my soul."... to

.. taking advantage of that passion, end of story.

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bachelorette-recap-andi-dorfman-takes-two-men-to-the-fantasy-suite-2014157#ixzz3A2Gzd7kL

[luvlady345]

 this year really leaves me shaking my head, it's like everything we have learn about this series has just been turned a blind eye too or thrown out the window because you don't like the lead or your favorite wasn't chosen, we all know the leads are fed lines or a storyboard to go by, if what Andi was saying to the rest of these guys were true Josh wouldn't be F1 and that goes for everyone of these leads they all do this if they didn't it wouldn't be separate camps each year or there wouldn't be a silly show to discuss...

[MVMom39forever]

Let me clarify what I meant since I see it was taken wrong.  I was speaking of only UNSPOILED viewers.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone who posts on this board falls into the"educated" category;  ie, educated about the show and on the lookout for producer tricks.  I don't think it's a coincidence that unspoiled posters here all saw through the edit and were sure it was Josh.  I suspect the spoiled here who thought it was Nick might have been partly influenced/motivated by wishful thinking and by wanting RS to be wrong JMO, didn't mean to offend.

I  understood what you meant.   

Here's the other side of the coin, if I may.

Some of the educated posters on this forum, took SM out of the equation, and by that I mean to include posts on this forum as well, in order to analyze as much as possible. IMO If it wasn't for the SM activity, the edit showed a very different F1. Up until the FS date. Then we can see Andi wasn't so much into him that day. She needed to remind Nick of his broken engagement and how long it took him to get over it. Sort of like, round 2 coming up forshadowing.

She went from "I have a mental connection with him," she gushes. "It's something that intrigues me, it's something that excites me. When Nick looks at me, he just gets me. He's got that passion." "Nick said he loves me," Andi coos. "I feel hopeful and safe, and I feel like when Nick looks at me, he sees every part of me—my heart, my mind, my soul."... to

.. taking advantage of that passion, end of story.

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/bachelorette-recap-andi-dorfman-takes-two-men-to-the-fantasy-suite-2014157#ixzz3A2Gzd7kL

Thanks Guardian for seeing the side of those who believed Nick could be F1 and giving us some respect!  

Since I am being lumped into the "wishful thinking" and wanting RS to be wrong camp, thought I'd respond. Not that it matters but I have correctly guessed every season of this show with the exception of Deanna picking Jessie and although I was Team Chris all season, I gave up hope she'd pick him about 3 days prior to the finale but still remained on Team Chris .

For Andi ... I was unspoiled through ep 4 when I stumbled on Nick's airplane video. I thought it was staged/produced for several reasons. Mainly, I didn't think Nick (or any contestant) would be dumb enough to talk on a phone in a crowded plane and spoil ending . I esp didn't think Nick would because he deals with contracts and lawyers with every deal he closes, which is standard for the type of software that he sells. Wanting to spend time with Andi at Kmart? Never! Those blue pants and chomping on Cheetos ... nope.

So that was my first wrong turn; gave Nick too much credit. Still am his fan but recognize/accept his flaws.

My second mistake was I never warmed to Josh.

Good looking, nice smile? Sure. But a former jock living in the past ... can't come to terms or be honest about why he didn't make it to major league ... unable to establish a significant relationship with anyone from 24-29 COULD mean he's emotionally immature ... can't stand losing/sulks against bleachers ... unable to drop the whole lie detector thing ... SEEMS to be living vicariously through baby brother ...  hard time cutting apron strings when he's pushing 30 ... No Thank You! In hindsight, I SHOULD have done more research into Josh so I could have a more well rounded picture of the man that he is in real life vs. the highly edited guy.

My 3rd mistake: ASSUMING that smart ADA Andi would see same Red Flags for Josh that I did. Her "type" sure ... but I saw the light/did NOT marry "my type" and have been happily married for 20 years. Go figure.

4th mistake: BELIEVING Andi's words about Nick ... blah, blah ... mental/physical ... blah, blah ... once in lifetime ... blah, blah ... passion ... chemistry. And please give me credit. I am not an idiot. I heard Dr. Andy tell Bevin he loved her on LCD but still knew he'd pick Tessa. I heard Meredith tell her F2 on LCD that she'd be honored to be his wife (or something like that) but still knew she'd pick Ian. The difference is that Andi was making these gushing comments about Nick all season ... especially from Ep 3 to their walk to fantasy suite. In hindsight, I re-listened to what Andi said about Nick leading into fantasy suite and realize it was a VOICEOVER that could have been taped at any time. Again, my bad. But, her "once in a lifetime" was consistent with what she said all season to Nick so overlooked that voiceover.

5th mistake; THINKING Chris H would not throw his lead Andi under the bus in his blog after FD (Josh a mistake/Nick aspirational relationship) and also at MTA (alluding to Josh lying 2x). Dumb.

6th mistake: DISMISSING Mama Murray and Hy being friends on SM. Thought it was similar to "Ready for Love" when F2 Sarah's family was doing same with Tim's family and also on Des' season with her mom being supportive of Brooks. I also thought: athletes who win the game/match/race are taught to win with grace, dignity and respect for opponent ... not flaunt in face. Renting the hall for a fan viewing party? Better to pull the band aid off at once and organize friends/fans in one room to start a Twitter campaign to push Josh into the Bachelor role.

7th mistake: RATIONALIZING that Andi had one mean girl friend Kelly saying nasty things about Nick but Sharlene was gushing about Nick with her every blog. Bad cop/good cop. Wrong!

8th mistake: trying to connect dots on Twitter of what Josh, Nick, Andi and Elan were tweeting. Honestly, some of the dots I connected could have gone either way as some friends pointed out (cough ... Grace ... cough!) In hindsight ... HUGE waste of time on my end.

9th mistake: Giving too much credence to some hints that I thought Nick fans were getting on the fan forum. Too long to explain but my friends will know what I am talking about. We were not delusional but made what we thought were some really great connections and did some awesome sleuthing of Nick's twitter followers.  

So ... heading into the finale with all of these assumptions, rationalizations and thoughts of a foiler, I had pretty much 100 percent confidence Nick was F1.

And then the finale started ...

All that confidence went out the window. I could see how Andi's demeanor changed with Nick. Her acting days ENDED and she got her Josh to propose with big fat diamond. So in the end, even those of us who were so certain the spoiler was a foiler ... we eventually saw the light.

Lessons Learned: just watch the friggin show either spoiler free if I like the lead or spoiled if I don't like any cast members and have fun snarking but never stepping foot in a fan forum.

[albean99]

I tend to think there's enough rose colored glasses to go around on all sides. There's always plenty of rewriting history on the part of the lead to fit who they end up with. The only time we hear the truth is post break up.  At this point it doesn't really matter because the season has ended. I'm ready to move on and mostly have already. It looks like Nick is doing nicely as are the other guys from the season so all's good.  :Nod:

[GuardianAngel]

Thanks Guardian for seeing the side of those who believed Nick could be F1 and giving us some respect!  

Since I am being lumped into the "wishful thinking" and wanting RS to be wrong camp, thought I'd respond. Not that it matters but I have correctly guessed every season of this show with the exception of Deanna picking Jessie and although I was Team Chris all season, I gave up hope she'd pick him about 3 days prior to the finale but still remained on Team Chris .

For Andi ... I was unspoiled through ep 4 when I stumbled on Nick's airplane video. I thought it was staged/produced for several reasons. Mainly, I didn't think Nick (or any contestant) would be dumb enough to talk on a phone in a crowded plane and spoil ending . I esp didn't think Nick would because he deals with contracts and lawyers with every deal he closes, which is standard for the type of software that he sells. Wanting to spend time with Andi at Kmart? Never! Those blue pants and chomping on Cheetos ... nope.

So that was my first wrong turn; gave Nick too much credit. Still am his fan but recognize/accept his flaws.

My second mistake was I never warmed to Josh.

Good looking, nice smile? Sure. But a former jock living in the past ... can't come to terms or be honest about why he didn't make it to major league ... unable to establish a significant relationship with anyone from 24-29 COULD mean he's emotionally immature ... can't stand losing/sulks against bleachers ... unable to drop the whole lie detector thing ... SEEMS to be living vicariously through baby brother ...  hard time cutting apron strings when he's pushing 30 ... No Thank You! In hindsight, I SHOULD have done more research into Josh so I could have a more well rounded picture of the man that he is in real life vs. the highly edited guy.  

My 3rd mistake: ASSUMING that smart ADA Andi would see same Red Flags for Josh that I did. Her "type" sure ... but I saw the light/did NOT marry "my type"  and have been happily married for 20 years. Go figure.

4th mistake: BELIEVING Andi's words about Nick ... blah, blah ... mental/physical ... blah, blah ... once in lifetime ... blah, blah ... passion ... chemistry. And please give me credit. I am not an idiot. I heard Dr. Andy tell Bevin he loved her on LCD but still knew he'd pick Tessa. I heard Meredith tell her F2 on LCD that she'd be honored to be his wife (or something like that) but still knew she'd pick Ian. The difference is that Andi was making these gushing comments about Nick all season ... especially from Ep 3 to their walk to fantasy suite. In hindsight, I re-listened to what Andi said about Nick leading into fantasy suite and realize it was a VOICEOVER that could have been taped at any time. Again, my bad. But, her "once in a lifetime" was consistent with what she said all season to Nick so overlooked that voiceover.  

5th mistake; THINKING Chris H would not throw his lead Andi under the bus in his blog after FD (Josh a mistake/Nick aspirational relationship) and also at MTA (alluding to Josh lying 2x). Dumb.

6th mistake: DISMISSING Mama Murray and Hy being friends on SM. Thought it was similar to "Ready for Love" when F2 Sarah's family was doing same with Tim's family and also on Des' season with her mom being supportive of Brooks. I also thought: athletes who win the game/match/race are taught to win with grace, dignity and respect for opponent ... not flaunt in face. Renting the hall for a fan viewing party? Better to pull the band aid off at once and organize friends/fans in one room to start a Twitter campaign to push Josh into the Bachelor role.

7th mistake: RATIONALIZING that Andi had one mean girl friend Kelly saying nasty things about Nick but Sharlene was gushing about Nick with her every blog. Bad cop/good cop. Wrong!

8th mistake: trying to connect dots on Twitter of what Josh, Nick, Andi and Elan were tweeting. Honestly, some of the dots I connected could have gone either way as some friends pointed out (cough ... Grace ... cough!) In hindsight ... HUGE waste of time on my end.

9th mistake: Giving too much credence to some hints that I thought Nick fans were getting on the fan forum. Too long to explain but my friends will know what I am talking about. We were not delusional but made what we thought were some really great connections and did some awesome sleuthing of Nick's twitter followers.  

So ... heading into the finale with all of these assumptions, rationalizations and thoughts of a foiler, I had pretty much 100 percent confidence Nick was F1.

And then the finale started ...

All that confidence went out the window. I could see how Andi's demeanor changed with Nick. Her acting days ENDED and she got her Josh to propose with big fat diamond.  So in the end, even those of us who were so certain the spoiler was a foiler ... we eventually saw the light.

Lessons Learned: just watch the friggin show either spoiler free if I like the lead or spoiled if I don't like any cast members and have fun snarking but never stepping foot in a fan forum.

This is one heck of a good post, MVMom39forever!  

[Alanna]

Speaking just for myself, even ignoring all the sm clues, I thought it would be impossible for Andi to choose Nick. He just wasn't what she wanted and got her all hot and bothered imo. She died over the strong, alpha men, and Nick the Nerd was quite literally the opposite of that. I could never reconcile her desires changing like that no matter what kind of connection or unexpected friendship she had with him. Obviously JMO.

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