Re: Nick Viall - Bachelorette 10 - Discussion - Thread #7

[SueSt]

Mindless, are you a lawyer??
Your ability to present a clear, concise and convincing argument are incredibly impressive.
True to the bolded; Andi can't let it go.
Like the lawyer she is, she still looking to win her argument, but the jury is definitely still hung...

Also want to respond to ironcat's comment....
I actually liked Andi throughtout the season (didn't see JPG's season) and definitely thought she was in love with Nick, despite her protests.
I have no problem with her choosing Josh or even saying she was not in love with Nick (although I personally wouldn't believe her).
My issue is with the way she treated Nick, a man that was in love with her... She slept with him and then proceeded to treat him with coldness and disdain. So, yeah, I'd call her a sore winner.  

Funny enough I was out with a few people recently who are more casual viewers of the show and naturally, we were talking about it. (They were pumping me for info regarding the next season since they consider me the reality queen and we started talking about finale and the AFTR and some of the stuff that has happened post show.) Some were fans of Andi after JPab's season and a couple were neutral and two of us not such fans. Even just watching the season (forget about the post show interviews, tweets, etc), none of them had a favourable opinion of her. I was particularly interested in the ones who had been fans and asked them why the change. The general consensus was that they thought she lacked compassion/empathy. The whole Eric thing started the change of opinion and then her behaviour at the AFTR sealed the deal. And most of these people were not particularly fans of Nick.

I obviously tend to overanalyze the show and who does what to whom and why (else I wouldn't spend so much time here), but these folks just watch the show and generally take things at face value and yet that they all seemed to have reached a similar consensus. One of them particularly stated that it is the job of the lead to have this "why didn't things work out" conversation with the F2 at the AFTR and she didn't understand why Andi couldn't have been like other leads before and just been more gracious about things...before the sex talk even came about. I don't know, maybe it is just our age, but I just found it very interesting.

Thanks for sharing the observations, Sprite...
Always nice to learn that I'm not crazy!!  or maybe I AM crazy, but not alone!! 

[SueSt]

Gender issues?

Question is, would Nick have done so knowing what he said only made him look like a pathetic jerk, even worst than when he blabbed loudly over the phone while sitting on a crowded plane --- something that only a few hundred would have seen on you tube, but because he intentionally violated contract and blabbed the ending of a popular reality show, tens of thousands.

Although it seems easier to understand why contestants do what they do than the leads, IMO Andi slept with her F2 because she wasn't 100% Josh until she was. Yes, he was the guy that had her attention from the moment they met and it worked out at the end, but we've seen first picks derail, for example Emily changed her focus, as did Des and Catherine wasn't on Sean's radar from the start.

I don't think he looked like a "pathetic jerk".  I think he asked a valid question.  I'm sure that Nick watched the episodes looking for something that would clue him into where he went wrong.  I can totally see Nick finding validation in watching back that his feelings for Andi were not mistaken and that Andi returned them.  The majority of Andi's ITMs that were shown were glowingly positive.  Her ITMs when Nick went to her after Marcus's date and again when he stole away from Brian at the Epi 6 Rose Ceremony were over the top positive.  Nick noly only stewed in his loss for 10 weeks but watched on screen affirmation that he had an "amazing Connection" and he was still struggling to understand.  I don't like the question he asked, but it came from an honest place.

Hi Eirekay, I totally agree with your post AND I had no problem with the question Nick asked.
Given the argument you laid out, I'm confused...
You say Nick's question came from an honest place... so, just asking you, why do you find fault with him asking it?

[eirekay]

Gender issues?

Question is, would Nick have done so knowing what he said only made him look like a pathetic jerk, even worst than when he blabbed loudly over the phone while sitting on a crowded plane --- something that only a few hundred would have seen on you tube, but because he intentionally violated contract and blabbed the ending of a popular reality show, tens of thousands.

Although it seems easier to understand why contestants do what they do than the leads, IMO Andi slept with her F2 because she wasn't 100% Josh until she was. Yes, he was the guy that had her attention from the moment they met and it worked out at the end, but we've seen first picks derail, for example Emily changed her focus, as did Des and Catherine wasn't on Sean's radar from the start.

I don't think he looked like a "pathetic jerk".  I think he asked a valid question.  I'm sure that Nick watched the episodes looking for something that would clue him into where he went wrong.  I can totally see Nick finding validation in watching back that his feelings for Andi were not mistaken and that Andi returned them.  The majority of Andi's ITMs that were shown were glowingly positive.  Her ITMs when Nick went to her after Marcus's date and again when he stole away from Brian at the Epi 6 Rose Ceremony were over the top positive.  Nick noly only stewed in his loss for 10 weeks but watched on screen affirmation that he had an "amazing Connection" and he was still struggling to understand.  I don't like the question he asked, but it came from an honest place.

Hi Eirekay, I totally agree with your post AND I had no problem with the question Nick asked.
Given the argument you laid out, I'm confused...
You say Nick's question came from an honest place... so, just asking you, why do you find fault with him asking it?

I do think Nick's question came from an honest place but I also wish Nick could have gotten the closure he needed without asking it. In a public forum, it opens all three parties up to a lot of speculation and conjecture and I wish, for all of them, that that could have been avoided.

[Lucas15]

I agree, Lucas.  I didn't like it any better that Clare said what she did than anyone else including Nick or Courtney.  

The thing with Clare was that (at least initially - I don't know if this changed later on) she didn't say what JPG had actually said to her that made her so upset, only "That he doesn't know me and some sexual thing I don't want to repeat. It was insulting and it was offensive."

But there was a US Weekly article that reported what it was that JPG said to Clare:

"He said, 'I love f---ing you but I don't know you,'" a source confirms to US Weekly.

I blamed the show more than Clare at least for the detail. We've been talking about sharing information that should remain private but here it's made worse because Clare didn't say it in public and neither did JPG - it was the show that screwed both of them by making it public. Since I didn't have any respect for the show before that it was hard to lose respect that I didn't have in the first place.

[pander3575]

I agree, Lucas.  I didn't like it any better that Clare said what she did than anyone else including Nick or Courtney.  

The thing with Clare was that (at least initially - I don't know if this changed later on) she didn't say what JPG had actually said to her that made her so upset, only "That he doesn't know me and some sexual thing I don't want to repeat. It was insulting and it was offensive."

But there was a US Weekly article that reported what it was that JPG said to Clare:

"He said, 'I love f---ing you but I don't know you,'" a source confirms to US Weekly.

I blamed the show more than Clare at least for the detail. We've been talking about sharing information that should remain private but here it's made worse because Clare didn't say it in public and neither did JPG - it was the show that screwed both of them by making it public. Since I didn't have any respect for the show before that it was hard to lose respect that I didn't have in the first place.

I thought Clare did that so I'm glad to hear she didn't.

[sdmom]

Is there anything new, positive and/or negative, about Nick that we can discuss?

[eirekay]

Is there anything new, positive and/or negative, about Nick that we can discuss?

Nick's latest Tweet is suggesting that he is not enjoy the weather.

[isittrue]

Is there anything new, positive and/or negative, about Nick that we can discuss?

Nick's latest Tweet is suggesting that he is not enjoy the weather.

   Yes I agree with Nick. The weather here in Chicago is hot, sticky and has rained on and off for 3 days..

[charriotoffire]

I agree, Lucas.  I didn't like it any better that Clare said what she did than anyone else including Nick or Courtney.  

The thing with Clare was that (at least initially - I don't know if this changed later on) she didn't say what JPG had actually said to her that made her so upset, only "That he doesn't know me and some sexual thing I don't want to repeat. It was insulting and it was offensive."

But there was a US Weekly article that reported what it was that JPG said to Clare:

"He said, 'I love f---ing you but I don't know you,'" a source confirms to US Weekly.

I blamed the show more than Clare at least for the detail. We've been talking about sharing information that should remain private but here it's made worse because Clare didn't say it in public and neither did JPG - it was the show that screwed both of them by making it public. Since I didn't have any respect for the show before that it was hard to lose respect that I didn't have in the first place.

Clare was all too happy to reveal it in the finale “Don’t tell me you love f**ing me,” she sobbed to the camera right after giving Juan Pablo a piece of her mind. “Don’t tell me that. That to me is not a man.” http://theashleysrealityroundup.com/2014/03/11/clare-crawley-reveals-what-bachelor-juan-pablo-told-her-during-their-helicopter-date/. Andi herself referenced it so many times in interviews.

[Lucas15]

I also wish Nick could have gotten the closure he needed without asking it.  In a public forum, it opens all three parties up to a lot of speculation and conjecture and I wish, for all of them, that that could have been avoided.

I do as well especially since the answer to that question didn't help him get the closure he needed because Andi didn't answer it, and still hasn't to this day.

The problem I have with the question Nick asked is that it was an accusatory question - in other words in the process of asking a question it also made an accusation. It's like me seeing an old acquaintance standing near his wife and I ask him "Hey Charlie - are you still having that affair with your secretary?" It doesn't matter what his answer is, his wife has a divorce attorney on speed dial and Charlie is probably looking to punch my lights out. All the question really did was make the public statement that Andi had slept with him and IMHO that's all it was intended to do.

If Nick still loved Andi and felt that she made a mistake and that there might be a chance for them he could have asked "Andi, are you happy with the way things have turned out now that a couple of months have passed?" I think Nick would have gained everyone's respect, including Andi's, and if she felt that she might have made a mistake it left an open door for her to admit it. If she was happy then Nick would at least have found out there was no chance and that should have given him closure. That would have been much smarter than p****g her off.

[stuckinsc]

Nick, we in GA aren't loving the weather either. Savannah is evening keeping their police horses in the stables to avoid the heat. I am from South Florida originally, so I giggle and in my head mock those who get so annoyed with these temperatures.

On the issue of sex, men, and women. I am at age where I saw the equal rights amendment not pass when voted on by each state (got to love the 80s!), but really thought long and hard about if I wanted to be "equal".

I have uncles who served in Vietnam and an older brother who was at the end of Korea. My maternal grandfather served in WWI, my father and his brothers in WWII. All of my brothers served in the Army or Navy. I admire those who serve in the military, but I know that I would be all wrong for it. I didn't want to have to register with selective service. So I had to admit, I didn't want equality.

To me when you ask for equality then you have to take all of the consequences. If as a woman, I chose to have sex with whomever I chose, then when someone I have sex calls me out on it, then I have to take it. Just like a man who has sex with more than one woman has to deal with the same thing.

Do I think it is more polite to not say something about it publicly? Sure and for that reason, I wish hadn't said what he did. I am sure Mama Viall was probably not happy to hear that.

But, you can't ask to be treated like a man and have the opportunity and ability to have sex with whomever you want and then hide behind, but I am a lady and it is rude to ask me about it. If you chose to behave like a man, then be ready to answer the same questions as a man.

[charriotoffire]

I also wish Nick could have gotten the closure he needed without asking it.  In a public forum, it opens all three parties up to a lot of speculation and conjecture and I wish, for all of them, that that could have been avoided.

I do as well especially since the answer to that question didn't help him get the closure he needed because Andi didn't answered it, and still hasn't to this day.

The problem I have with the question Nick asked is that it was an accusatory question - in other words in the process of asking a question it also made an accusation. It's like me seeing an old acquaintance standing near his wife and I ask him "Hey Charlie - are you still having that affair with your secretary?" It doesn't matter what his answer is, his wife has a divorce attorney on speed dial and Charlie is probably looking to punch my lights out. All the question really did was make the public statement that Andi had slept with him and IMHO that's all it was intended to do.

If Nick still loved Andi and felt that she made a mistake and that there might be a chance for them he could have asked "Andi, are you happy with the way things have turned out now that a couple of months have passed?" I think Nick would have gained everyone's respect, including Andi's, and if she felt that she might have made a mistake it left an open door for her to admit it. If she was happy then Nick would at least have found out there was no chance and that should have given him closure. That would have been much smarter than p****g her off.

She is always pissed off anyway if someone she deems beneath her questions her. It doesn't matter how or what Nick asks,  Andi is always in the proverbial high horse acting high and mighty after stomping on someone's heart.   Tired and sick of this topic but Andi is not the victim here.  She is the bully.  Its just so satisfying to see him wipe the smirk off her face while he asked the obvious question.   She just put herself in a pedestal where no one can question her motives, I cheered on someone or anybody who can put her in her place.  

I dont know if you are a father, but if you have a daughter who was dumped after she gave herself to someone emotionally and sexually, doesnt she have the right to ask the obvious question? Will you tell her to NOT piss the guy off?  Nick showed how feminism works.  No double standard.  If you can behave like a man bedding multiple partners in one week,  he can behave like a woman owning the hurt and putting the real question on the table hoping that both of them are 'man' enough to own up to it.

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