The Bachelorette Season 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - *Sleuthing - Spoilers* - Discussion #2

I think she simply wanted to "refresh" Ben. That is why the season is refreshing. 
I like the parallels between her and Ben F.

I haven't been too invested in this season due to the drama and the lack of relationships truly developing.Kaitlyn imo is looking from the essence of " love in the moment ".A good relationship begins with friendship, courtship,trust, and communication being number one. Kaitlyn is "in the "moment" with physical chemistry with both f1 and
f2.
For me kaitlyn is fighting to hard in the relationship to please Shawn and has by passed other great guys in front of her. Kaitlyn still has a lot to learn about love, she was totally disrespectful to most of the guys with the Nick escapade, telling shawn he's the one, and lying to Shawn about her status with nick when she initiated the sex.Kaitlyn would have looked better if she chose no one in the end and waited awhile just to date.Jmo, I feel as though both Shawn and Kaitlyn were caught up in the moment: jmo, his to win the girl and her to be engaged, i say this because he never showed true interest in her, but to be the one. He gave up his job for the show, he either wins the girl or become the bachelor, increases his chances of future endorsements.Same can be said for Nick to show a better image of himself, but I feel he truly came on the show for Kaitlyn. I am wishing Kaitlyn the best and hope she can move past her mistakes and learn from them. Des and Chris showed a true love story to me even Jp and Ashley.If Shawn was her true f1 she wouldnt have slept with Nick 2x. Kaitlyn lacks respect for herself and others in the process.

fabgirl wrote:Jmo, I feel as though both Shawn and Kaitlyn were caught up in the moment: his to win the girl and her to be engaged, i say this because he never showed true interest in her, but to be the one. He gave up his job for the show, he either wins the girl or become the bachelor, increases his chances of future endorsements.

I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Yeah, I agree. I remember the second confrontation when he came to her hotel room, the poor girl was basically lying in a fetal position in tears, and he was like "um...not doing so well, huh? Anyways, let me explain to you why I was upset!".

AllAboutLove wrote:
I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Lucas15 wrote:

peggy0221 wrote:This is exactly why it bothered me, Kait WANTS him from night one before getting to really know him.
She fell for his physique (just like I did during pre-season sleuthing, shallow me ), but isn't that lust?

IMO not necessarily "just" lust. There are two articles that might be interesting to read that both discuss the "phenomenon" of "love at first sight": This one in Psychology Today and This one in WSJ.

The WSJ article states:

According to an annual “Singles in America” survey of more than 5,000 singles ages 21 to 70-plus, sponsored by the dating site Match.com, 59% of men and 49% of women in 2014 said they believe in love at first sight, and 41% of men and 29% of women say they have experienced it.

I think I would have to put myself in that 41% of men and my wife would put herself in the 29% of women. IMO it's hard to define what it is that happens or exactly why it happens, but for some people it definitely happens and it's more than just "lust"; these articles explain it better than I can.
JMHO

Interesting articles, thank you Lucas. The PT article states "In cases of love at first acquaintance, there appears to be an earnest desire to be loyal, consistent, candid, trustworthy, considerate, empathetic, tolerant, beneficent, and to be there for the other."

I don't believe that this is possible within the format of this show. In real life, yes. On this show, no. The lead is on new dates every day. The contestants only speak with the lead for a few minutes here and there. They are not allowed to talk about whatever they like and we also have the producers messing with their minds. None of them see the whole "picture" because they don't hear what is being said in ITMs.
At the very best I think that it's possible for a lead, with the right intentions, to find someone that they could fall in love with afterwards. On this show there is so much going on and so little time for each relationship to be other than "very early on".

Kaitlyn has explored her relationships to "the fullest" and not showed any signs as of how a person in the article would act and there is a huge risk that that can make the final relationship really, really shaky when the show is over.
JMHO

chasingpavements wrote:Yeah, I agree. I remember the second confrontation when he came to her hotel room, the poor girl was basically lying in a fetal position in tears, and he was like "um...not doing so well, huh? Anyways, let me explain to you why I was upset!".

Yup, and when she did tell Shawn about sexgate he walked away as his first response... had to go to the bathroom and was so tense he couldn't pee.
Wonder how long it took for the producers to convince him to stay and just repeat what they had said to him "be there for her, etc, etc," as after that he was back to confronting again.
I would have sent that guy home in a heartbeat with a "Don't let the door hit ya on the way out".
So boring/exhausting.

LenaActually wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:
I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Not every guy on the show...Nick has actually asked how Kaitlyn was feeling at the beginning of each of their conversations...even when he had things weighing on his mind to discuss. He says twice, "lay it on me" when asking about how she is doing. (Once in San Antonio after the Ian tirade and once in Killarney.).

I noticed that about Nick too. He always encourages her to talk and engage.

I just watched the scene again in her hotel room where S says "but the other guys aren't feeling what I'm feeling." If I had been K, I would've thought, "so you think you are the only one falling in love with me? Only you have real feelings for me? gee, thanks for letting me know."

LenaActually wrote:

AllAboutLove wrote:
I am still waiting for Shawn to stop talking about/selling himself (from first moment with drawing, to t-shirt, to family photos, etc...) I have yet to see Shawn actually ask anything about Kaitlyn and not talk about himself or his feelings. I would guess this was on the edit cutting floor/off camera time but he was this way the moment he "met" her after swinging both Britt and Kaitlyn around... "sweep them off their feet, literally".

Tbh, isn't that every guy on this show? I swear, every single date she's been on, all they show is the guy talking about his family, his inability to be loved (still cackling about this one), how his parents met. People claim Kaitlyn is a bad Bachelorette because the public doesn't really know much about her, but look at what she's been dealt! The producers have no interest in expounding upon her personality. And have no interest in showing her being open with any of her suitors, which if she truly intends on getting engaged to one of them, you'd bet she would've have to be at some point.

Actually it isn't. Both Nick and Ben H have asked Kaitlyn how she is doing/feeling and focused the conversation on her and not just themselves.

Glowworm2 wrote:

Lucas15 wrote:

peggy0221 wrote:This is exactly why it bothered me, Kait WANTS him from night one before getting to really know him.
She fell for his physique (just like I did during pre-season sleuthing, shallow me ), but isn't that lust?

IMO not necessarily "just" lust. There are two articles that might be interesting to read that both discuss the "phenomenon" of "love at first sight": This one in Psychology Today and This one in WSJ.

The WSJ article states:

According to an annual “Singles in America” survey of more than 5,000 singles ages 21 to 70-plus, sponsored by the dating site Match.com, 59% of men and 49% of women in 2014 said they believe in love at first sight, and 41% of men and 29% of women say they have experienced it.

I think I would have to put myself in that 41% of men and my wife would put herself in the 29% of women. IMO it's hard to define what it is that happens or exactly why it happens, but for some people it definitely happens and it's more than just "lust"; these articles explain it better than I can.
JMHO

Interesting articles, thank you Lucas. The PT article states "In cases of love at first acquaintance, there appears to be an earnest desire to be loyal, consistent, candid, trustworthy, considerate, empathetic, tolerant, beneficent, and to be there for the other."

I don't believe that this is possible within the format of this show. In real life, yes. On this show, no. The lead is on new dates every day. The contestants only speak with the lead for a few minutes here and there. They are not allowed to talk about whatever they like and we also have the producers messing with their minds. None of them see the whole "picture" because they don't hear what is being said in ITMs.
At the very best I think that it's possible for a lead, with the right intentions, to find someone that they could fall in love with afterwards. On this show there is so much going on and so little time for each relationship to be other than "very early on".

Kaitlyn has explored her relationships to "the fullest" and not showed any signs as of how a person in the article would act and there is a huge risk that that can make the final relationship really, really shaky when the show is over.
JMHO

It's interesting that none of the couples that ended up getting married in this franchise experienced that "love at first sight" (well, I can't speak for Trista/Ryan which was before my time). Most of the leads that fell in love on night one (Brad/Emily, Ali/Roberto, Ben/Courtney, etc) did not have lasting relationships. All of the lasting relationships were a much slower build with a contestant that wasn't THE stand-out on night one, but instead started with a friendship and feelings intensified over time. I have also seen studies that show that people are able to tell within 5 minutes of a date whether there is long-term potential in that relationship. That, I find to be true. I think that most leads, with the exception of Sean, have known their final 2-4 on the first night. They usually only have a couple of minutes to talk, so I'm thinking that a lot of that decision is based on instinct.

I think it's interesting that only 29% of women experience love at first sight, whereas with men, it's 41%. I think that indicates that there is a strong physical component to it, as I think that men do put attraction very high (if not #1) on their list, whereas women are usually more interested in things like emotional and financial stability. It reminds me of studies that show that men are much happier in arranged marriages (which are usually based on superficial things like attraction and financial similarity) than love marriages, whereas with women it's the opposite.

^ Great points, CP! It's why I think the dynamic between Kaitlyn and Shawn is interesting and at times confusing because in some ways K is chasing S more like a male lead and giving constant reassurance to Shawn's need for validation.