The Bachelorette 11 - Kaitlyn Bristowe - FRC - ATFR- July 27th *Sleuthing - Spoilers*

iamreal2u wrote:^^Nick may use that hour as a "tell all" to validate why he does not understand why he was the F2 and not F1.

That's kind of what I'm expecting.

Lucas15 wrote:

algold29 wrote:The plane video would have nothing to do with Kaitlyn and the supposed hour wait Shawn had in the limo, that was after Andi's season.

I'm sorry for not better constructing my post. Of course the plane video from last season doesn't pertain to this season - but Nick's thought patterns then could very well be the same now. If he thought then that arguing or disagreeing was a consideration why could he not feel the same way this season? If he thought about it then but didn't do it why could he not have decided this season to do it?
JMHO

Gotcha!! Now it makes more sense, thanks for explaining.

I can see Kaitlyn basically being forced as the only way she would make him propose only to turn him down. I just don't see her as a vindictive person who would make anything go through something like that. Like I said, I don't even like Nick and I don't think he should have to go through it.

Obviously I'm a #KaitBoo fan all the way but I don't think it was a slam dunk that she chose Shawn from the start. I think she had very strong feelings for Nick, possibly even love, and had to make a hard choice between he and Shawn. Believe me, it pains me to say that!!

I see no reason to expect the worst from Nick, when all I've seen this season is a man who's learned from his mistakes. Maybe I'll be disappointed and he won't be able to put theory into practice, but I'm certainly giving him the benefit of the doubt. People do grow and learn, you know. Especially introspective people.

And if reports are true that he and Kaityn had sex in Utah, that she broke lead code and said ILY to him, I am okay with Nick asking some questions. Kaitlyn has flip flopped a lot. I don't need Nick to stick his tail between his legs and leave, if she lets him propose, TPTB forcing or not, he would deserves some answers. Oh and we know Kaitlyn is so afraid of TPTB, that is why she spoiled her own season and keeps doing it on SM. So sorry, I don't buy TPTB threatened me as an excuse. TPTB had a great foiler campaign going and Kaitlyn refused to play along. Even the excuse she can't blog Nick because it is too painful to watch his parts. This is her job, but your big girl panties on and do it. Can I skip finishing writing my dissertation and get my PhD because I have severe Sciatica and sitting is to painful? Nope, I have to finish my job.

Please can we stop making excuses and complaining about editing? Your sad your love story is on the cutting room floor, tell your happy couple to act like adults and not immature teenagers and TPTB would not have that to show. Kaitlyn was too afraid to not let Nick propose, but she has no fear of ruining their spoiler campaign and continuing to do so and doesn't feel the need to do her job and discuss the full season in her blogs. Even "awful" JPG managed to discuss Clare in his blogs and do his job. If my lead is going to shirk the job I prefer it be in fake proposals or not letting both men propose. But that is just me.

Alanna wrote:They probably forced her with some sort of scary threats or told her he'll be the lead and she has to let him propose. I doubt it was her choice, how could it be?

As for waiting an hour, a mag reported it, either Ok! or L&S.

I am quite sure TPTB pulled out all their heavy ammunition to get Kaitlyn to go along with allowing Nick proposing. They probably even got to the point where they made K think it was ok to do this until it was done. That way they could get the most drama for their buck.
As for the length of time it took, they probably had to cut and allow retakes more than usual. If cast walked off set and came back this would be needed. I have now forgotten who because it has been more than one season, but cast do do this during FRC. They walk off. They get emotional. So retakes and people re-grouping to get their act together take up time.
Also, TPTB probably wanted Shawn (who usually is as cool as a cucumber under stress--NOT), as hyped up as possible. Having Shawn wait as long as possible right at the site of the FRC thinking TOG is still there creating WWIII would truly be a mind fork. TPTB want emotions high at the FRC--good tv.

Lucas15 wrote:(snipped) why would someone think to argue over a breakup - what good can possibly come from an argument with someone who just broke up with you?

Maybe it's not arguing, but giving yourself an opportunity to understand their thinking.
I would think after last season and not having the closure he needed that Nick would want to sit and let his thoughts at least marinate a moment before saying goodbye.
Again, it's not a simple breakup, we assume he was prepared to propose and would not have an opportunity to speak with her again for months... so why not take the time to just sit and let whatever questions he has rise to his consciousness?

Alanna wrote:They probably forced her with some sort of scary threats or told her he'll be the lead and she has to let him propose. I doubt it was her choice, how could it be?

As for waiting an hour, a mag reported it, either Ok! or L&S.

IMO she always has/had a choice. She might have been exhausted, confused and sometimes manipulated into making bad decisions for herself and others involved, but she could have let Nick go earlier and taken someone who was not as invested along to the F2 if she knew it was S before the last weeks. I don't believe it was love at first sight with S, attraction yes, love no. She would´t have continued to have sex with N. (Even at the HTD if the tabloids are correct, and I think they are)
If she was "forced" to bring N she always had a choice to make the HTD easy on N and his family, but she didn't. She had to bring people along and make them feel as they were the one, but what she said to the family was something else. I think Kaitlyn thought she might pick N and that's why she said so many positive things to N:s family. Most leads say that the last week i crucial for their final decision and a lot of them were conflicted to the very end. We have to remind ourselves that this is speed dating. They spend very little time together and hardly know each other when it's time for the proposal. They start as an engaged couple and then they get to know each other. The lead has to take a leap of faith and it seems like she did that with Shawn. The hour Shawn waited in the car, was the time she needed to compose herself and be able to feel some happiness again. JMO

stuckinsc wrote:And if reports are true that he and Kaityn had sex in Utah, that she broke lead code and said ILY to him, I am okay with Nick asking some questions. Kaitlyn has flip flopped a lot. I don't need Nick to stick his tail between his legs and leave, if she lets him propose, TPTB forcing or not, he would deserves some answers. Oh and we know Kaitlyn is so afraid of TPTB, that is why she spoiled her own season and keeps doing it on SM. So sorry, I don't buy TPTB threatened me as an excuse. TPTB had a great foiler campaign going and Kaitlyn refused to play along. Even the excuse she can't blog Nick because it is too painful to watch his parts. This is her job, but your big girl panties on and do it. Can I skip finishing writing my dissertation and get my PhD because I have severe Sciatica and sitting is to painful? Nope, I have to finish my job.

Please can we stop making excuses and complaining about editing? Your sad your love story is on the cutting room floor, tell your happy couple to act like adults and not immature teenagers and TPTB would not have that to show. Kaitlyn was too afraid to not let Nick propose, but she has no fear of ruining their spoiler campaign and continuing to do so and doesn't feel the need to do her job and discuss the full season in her blogs. Even "awful" JPG managed to discuss Clare in his blogs and do his job. If my lead is going to shirk the job I prefer it be in fake proposals or not letting both men propose. But that is just me.

Great post, Stuck.
ITA!

I know it seems like you always have a choice and I guess ultimately you do, but in order to make a very difficult choice you have to have a deep well of strength to pull from.
By the end of this fiasco(journey), I have a feeling there were even more off camera tears, subtle threats, not so subtle threats, psycho manipulations and fatigue, hormones and sociopathic manipulations that K(who btw I am not a fan of) had no choice, but to let Nick propose.
For whatever reasons, I believe she thought this was the right thing to do at the time. If only to give them time for closure.
I have no doubt the machine pulled out all heavy artillery to get this and I don't see K being strong enough at this point to pull from her strengths.
I also would not have been surprised if TPTB offered very little lag time from the time K said goodbye to N to the time she greeted S, if only to keep her emotionally off kilter.

Kashathediva wrote:I know it seems like you always have a choice and I guess ultimately you do, but in order to make a very difficult choice you have to have a deep well of strength to pull from.
By the end of this fiasco(journey), I have a feeling there were even more off camera tears, subtle threats, not so subtle threats, psycho manipulations and fatigue, hormones and sociopathic manipulations that K(who btw I am not a fan of) had no choice, but to let Nick propose.
For whatever reasons, I believe she thought this was the right thing to do at the time. If only to give them time for closure.
I have no doubt the machine pulled out all heavy artillery to get this and I don't see K being strong enough at this point to pull from her strengths.
I also would not have been surprised if TPTB offered very little lag time from the time K said goodbye to N to the time she greeted S, if only to keep her emotionally off kilter.

Quoting only the last post but IMO the last TWO posts are equally on point. By the time of the FRC leads are emotionally drained and physically exhausted and most of this is intentional - it makes them vulnerable to doing things they would probably otherwise not do. In spite of the fact that she show is always going to edit that it was a last minute decision I don't think that's often the case and by FRC time all the lead really wants to do is be with their F1 and that makes them more likely to give the producers what they want just to make it all stop.

I do think they pulled out the heavy artillery and threats have been used in the past and IMO it's logical to suspect that was true this time - I don't think threats are the first choice - more what they do when the first plan doesn't work. IMO Kaitlyn could very well have been put in a position where she believed the only choices available to her would be to let Nick propose or lose Shawn to a "nuclear" option - that they would so poison Shawn's opinions that he would leave since that seems to have been one of Kaitlyn's greatest fears.

Or maybe they just threatened her with flapping birds.
JMHO

ETA - In addition to threats the producers will also lie (and have done so in the past). They could very well have told Kaitlyn that Nick knew she was going to reject his proposal but they just needed that good footage. Kaitlyn would have believed that she was just playing along with a little charade where everyone knew it was only just a bit of acting. Only Nick would not have been in on the game - he would have believed it was all real.
JMHO also

I believe the choice was Kaitlyn's (and the decision for Nick's proposal is on her), but I also believe that TPTB are good in telling their cast a nicely wrapped story and persuade them to do things, because "supposedly" is in the best interest for all, so like Kasha posted before:

Kashathediva wrote:I am quite sure TPTB pulled out all their heavy ammunition to get Kaitlyn to go along with allowing Nick proposing. They probably even got to the point where they made K think it was ok to do this until it was done. That way they could get the most drama for their buck.

-so that's a "why" ... but the response and reaction of the audience, viewers - that's on the edit.

I have seen comments posted that Shawn waited an hour, Nick waited an hour, both guys had to wait an hour. Does anyone have a source or a link to confirm? TYIA