Vent/Complaint Department - Bachelorette 8 - Discussion

veg_out wrote:I am vexed--VEXED--that my sources were incorrect, and Ryan Bowers did not show up to the ATFR. He was supposed to carry Emily off of the stage above his head.

Why does no one tell me what's really going on?

Ryan was on his way and I hijacked him at the Burbank airport. I have him tied up in my hotel room. Yummy. If you pm me Veg--I can give you our logistics and you can join us! I ain't selfish! There is PLENTY of Ryan to go round and round.
Oh I forgot, we have each other FOE'd and you can't read this. I have telepathy and was able to sense your post. Someone please pm Veg before Ryan and I move on to our next "safe house" point.

Okay, so the season is ended and yet we are still harping on the two sides of pro-Jef or Jef is bad. If you think Jef is a Machiavellian genius that is cool and your right, but hey guess what all those Jef fans have stopped listening, so talk to each other about it but leave the Jef fans alone. You love Jef and think he is awesome, cool, some people don't, stop trying to convince them of what you see, they never will.

The people who came on this show put themselves up for being mocked, but the people who are fans of the people on TV don't deserve to be mocked.

Now for my own personal opinion rant. I was a bona fide environmental chemist. I tested soil, water and air samples. I love the earth and try to help it, but guess what? There are places that I won't drink the tap water, want to know why? I actually understand what is wrong with it and I don't want to consume it. So when I am there, I drink bottled water, it is selfish, but the right to protect my long term health is mine. I could travel with my own water, but funny enough airplanes don't like that. Also, my bf would probably shoot me if I asked to bring gallons of water on every trip. At home we drink tap and if I will be somewhere a long time, I will get something like a Britta filter, but short term, the environmental chemist will drink bottled water. And I just have to ask, to all the people who preach against bottled water, do you also avoid purchasing milk, juice and soda from plastic bottles? If not then maybe ease up on the rhetoric.

And since I was an environmental chemist who switched to biochemistry, I really do understand health risks and what different things can do to the human body. I know that most things in moderation are okay. But you know what I know most, the media misrepresents things. Within a six month period it was reported that eating tomatoes would give you cancer and then a follow up report was that eating tomatoes would prevent cancer. How is that? Well, from a research prospective, if you eat nothing but one thing it will be bad for you, but realistic amounts are good. But also realize that the media over simplifies everything, so if Jef has begun to just say in response to PeopleWater is a charity, that no it is a bottled water company in a short two minute interview, maybe cut him some slack.

Also if you would like to do some good, donate to medical research for the disease you feel most strongly about, there are many of us that work long, frustrating hours to make life better for others and we worry everyday about how to pay for it and keep going. Want a good organization to give to, look into the Jimmy V foundation. They do give a great majority (probably minus slight operational expenses) to cancer researchers to try to find ways to stop the spread of what is actually a multitude of complex and horrible diseases.

Finally, I really enjoy this site and all that Love_me and San do to make this a great place. I agree that all opinions should be welcome, but I also know from my own experience that you get a lot farther on getting your opinion across with kindness rather than meanness. My favorite priest of all time, once told me that if you hate someone you obviously feel some kind of love toward them too. You really want to hurt someone? Just don't care about them, ignore them, that is really the most hurtful thing you can do. So hey, if you don't like Arie, Emily or Jef, try not talking about them. Then they don't get any part of you at all. In my opinion, the best way to dislike someone is to simply not make someone worth your time or effort.

End of rant, have a great night.

stuckinsc wrote:Okay, so the season is ended and yet we are still harping on the two sides of pro-Jef or Jef is bad. If you think Jef is a Machiavellian genius that is cool and your right, but hey guess what all those Jef fans have stopped listening, so talk to each other about it but leave the Jef fans alone. You love Jef and think he is awesome, cool, some people don't, stop trying to convince them of what you see, they never will.

The people who came on this show put themselves up for being mocked, but the people who are fans of the people on TV don't deserve to be mocked.

Now for my own personal opinion rant. I was a bona fide environmental chemist. I tested soil, water and air samples. I love the earth and try to help it, but guess what? There are places that I won't drink the tap water, want to know why? I actually understand what is wrong with it and I don't want to consume it. So when I am there, I drink bottled water, it is selfish, but the right to protect my long term health is mine. I could travel with my own water, but funny enough airplanes don't like that. Also, my bf would probably shoot me if I asked to bring gallons of water on every trip. At home we drink tap and if I will be somewhere a long time, I will get something like a Britta filter, but short term, the environmental chemist will drink bottled water. And I just have to ask, to all the people who preach against bottled water, do you also avoid purchasing milk, juice and soda from plastic bottles? If not then maybe ease up on the rhetoric.

And since I was an environmental chemist who switched to biochemistry, I really do understand health risks and what different things can do to the human body. I know that most things in moderation are okay. But you know what I know most, the media misrepresents things. Within a six month period it was reported that eating tomatoes would give you cancer and then a follow up report was that eating tomatoes would prevent cancer. How is that? Well, from a research prospective, if you eat nothing but one thing it will be bad for you, but realistic amounts are good. But also realize that the media over simplifies everything, so if Jef has begun to just say in response to PeopleWater is a charity, that no it is a bottled water company in a short two minute interview, maybe cut him some slack.

Also if you would like to do some good, donate to medical research for the disease you feel most strongly about, there are many of us that work long, frustrating hours to make life better for others and we worry everyday about how to pay for it and keep going. Want a good organization to give to, look into the Jimmy V foundation. They do give a great majority (probably minus slight operational expenses) to cancer researchers to try to find ways to stop the spread of what is actually a multitude of complex and horrible diseases.

Finally, I really enjoy this site and all that Love_me and San do to make this a great place. I agree that all opinions should be welcome, but I also know from my own experience that you get a lot farther on getting your opinion across with kindness rather than meanness. My favorite priest of all time, once told me that if you hate someone you obviously feel some kind of love toward them too. You really want to hurt someone? Just don't care about them, ignore them, that is really the most hurtful thing you can do. So hey, if you don't like Arie, Emily or Jef, try not talking about them. Then they don't get any part of you at all. In my opinion, the best way to dislike someone is to simply not make someone worth your time or effort.

End of rant, have a great night.

I kind of love this post. Well put.

I'll add that I continue to be amazed by the reactions to the contestants this year, particularly Jef. I'm not a huge fan of his or Aries to be honest, and I'm decidedly not a fan of Emily's and do not think she's really sincere. But I just don't get why Jef bugs people so much and I can't ever remember such a visceral reaction to a F1 (to be fair I've only been on the boards since Brad2.) He so 'vanilla' to me that I never would have guessed he would end up being so polarizing. I'm fascinated that a) people seem to dislike him so strongly, and b) people are so willing to spend their time/effort/stress on expressing that anger on this board. I mean, everyone is entitled to feel how they want and to do what they want. I just can't be bothered to waste my energy or vindictiveness on a Bachelorette contestant when there are real people in the world doing shit that I hate and who outrage me and make me bitter. Maybe I just don't care about her story enough to be emotional about who she picks.

stuckinsc wrote:

***snipped for brevity***

Now for my own personal opinion rant. I was a bona fide environmental chemist. I tested soil, water and air samples. I love the earth and try to help it, but guess what? There are places that I won't drink the tap water, want to know why? I actually understand what is wrong with it and I don't want to consume it. So when I am there, I drink bottled water, it is selfish, but the right to protect my long term health is mine. I could travel with my own water, but funny enough airplanes don't like that. Also, my bf would probably shoot me if I asked to bring gallons of water on every trip. At home we drink tap and if I will be somewhere a long time, I will get something like a Britta filter, but short term, the environmental chemist will drink bottled water. And I just have to ask, to all the people who preach against bottled water, do you also avoid purchasing milk, juice and soda from plastic bottles? If not then maybe ease up on the rhetoric.

Since you asked, I don't buy milk or juice or soda in plastic bottles. I don't buy a lot of milk but the last time I did it was in a new returnable glass bottle. The darn deposit on the bottle cost more than the milk itself! I had an experience this weekend that made me grin a little to myself. I was at the lake teaching a sailing class with several people. I brought out my handy Coleman 2-gallon water cooler to refill the reusable container I brought to drink water. One of the other instructors actually works for Coleman and commented on my "vintage" cooler. I'm not gonna lie - I was a little proud of the fact that I've used that cooler enough years that it is now considered vintage! :Smiley:

I am also very good friends with an environmental chemist who works for our local water department and he staunchly supports the quality of our tap water. I guess I don't travel enough to worry about the quality of tap water in other places. Maybe someday. *sigh*

And since I was an environmental chemist who switched to biochemistry, I really do understand health risks and what different things can do to the human body. I know that most things in moderation are okay. But you know what I know most, the media misrepresents things. Within a six month period it was reported that eating tomatoes would give you cancer and then a follow up report was that eating tomatoes would prevent cancer. How is that? Well, from a research prospective, if you eat nothing but one thing it will be bad for you, but realistic amounts are good. But also realize that the media over simplifies everything, so if Jef has begun to just say in response to PeopleWater is a charity, that no it is a bottled water company in a short two minute interview, maybe cut him some slack.

I don't know if I agree that the media misrepresents things as much as I believe that sometimes a study is reported (sometimes it's even a fairly small study) and the results are reported as the end-all, be-all answer to whatever question it supposedly answered. I take most of that stuff with a grain of salt because I don't think good, large, long-term studies have ever been done on what actually is a healthy diet for humans. I certainly don't believe the stuff the FDA has been feeding us for years (the old food pyramid anyone?). What I do believe, is that all the processed and packaged foods the world eats is not good for people or the earth.

As to PW, well I suppose I've made my opinion known on that enough that no one really wants to hear it again. It's a despicable marketing plan in my humble opinion - I'll leave it at that.

Finally, I really enjoy this site and all that Love_me and San do to make this a great place. I agree that all opinions should be welcome, but I also know from my own experience that you get a lot farther on getting your opinion across with kindness rather than meanness. My favorite priest of all time, once told me that if you hate someone you obviously feel some kind of love toward them too. You really want to hurt someone? Just don't care about them, ignore them, that is really the most hurtful thing you can do. So hey, if you don't like Arie, Emily or Jef, try not talking about them. Then they don't get any part of you at all. In my opinion, the best way to dislike someone is to simply not make someone worth your time or effort.

I agree with you here, but since we're on a message board who's purpose originally was to have a place where people could sleuth out the ending to this silly show without a lot of cumbersome rules, and the ending has been spoiled since before the season began, I guess the only thing left to do is share opinions on the contestants involved and the outcome of the season. I have never let what anyone says about a contestant bother me, rather my rant would have to be about posters talking about and baiting other posters.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. I found your post very interesting.

[quote="Chacharo"]

stuckinsc wrote:

***snipped for brevity***

Since you asked, I don't buy milk or juice or soda in plastic bottles. I don't buy a lot of milk but the last time I did it was in a new returnable glass bottle. The darn deposit on the bottle cost more than the milk itself! I had an experience this weekend that made me grin a little to myself. I was at the lake teaching a sailing class with several people. I brought out my handy Coleman 2-gallon water cooler to refill the reusable container I brought to drink water. One of the other instructors actually works for Coleman and commented on my "vintage" cooler. I'm not gonna lie - I was a little proud of the fact that I've used that cooler enough years that it is now considered vintage! :Smiley:

Thank you for that. Consistency is one of my favorite things. I am okay with people being anti-plastic containers, I actually agree the use of plastic is bad, but to rail against one type of plastic and not all is inconsistent. I admire you for being consistent, it warms my heart. I have to travel for family across the southeast and via having tested there are areas where the water isn't good, but at home and in my area, I only drink tap water.

I am also very good friends with an environmental chemist who works for our local water department and he staunchly supports the quality of our tap water. I guess I don't travel enough to worry about the quality of tap water in other places. Maybe someday. *sigh*

I don't know if I agree that the media misrepresents things as much as I believe that sometimes a study is reported (sometimes it's even a fairly small study) and the results are reported as the end-all, be-all answer to whatever question it supposedly answered. I take most of that stuff with a grain of salt because I don't think good, large, long-term studies have ever been done on what actually is a healthy diet for humans. I certainly don't believe the stuff the FDA has been feeding us for years (the old food pyramid anyone?). What I do believe, is that all the processed and packaged foods the world eats is not good for people or the earth.

The media states things too simplistically and then most of the public just hears it and thinks it is fact. Packaged and processed food definitely lose a lot of their nutritional value and seeing what increased levels of salt can do to the body is downright frightening. I have actually stopped using salt completely, it is actually that scary, we get so much from packaged and processed food, we just don't need anymore at all. It is hard to do studies with human patients, one because they are hard to keep complaint and two when they aren't they tend to lie. Viagra is my favorite example of this. Older men were initially given it to help with heart problems, which it isn't really effective at, but experienced this other pleasant effect, but actually didn't share with the study coordinators and definitely didn't want to go off the drug either. Asking the right questions, finally figured out that this particular drug worked on a form of an enzyme that was expressed mostly in that area and not in the heart or major cardiac and pulmonary vessels at all. Human patients/study participants are unfortunately terribly unreliable.

My favorite story of the media misrepresenting something, is with stem cells. First let me state, I don't work in stem cells and have no desire to debate or offend anyone here about them. But when it was reported about four years ago that we had no need for embryonic stem cells because researchers had successfully reverted a human skin cell to a stem cell, what they didn't tell you is that to do that they expressed four genes that have all been strongly linked to cancer (oncogenes). So yes, these cells do have the ability to become other stuff, but they may not be able to stop once they start. As someone who has done cancer research, I would never want to give a patient something that may cause cancer, not worth it to me (and this is my opinion alone which I tend to vigorously state whenever I am discussing the subject with my fellow scientists). My bf and I are both scientist, but different kinds, and we both laugh at how simplistic the media makes things to report it. They have to, but the key is to remember that what is reported is not always the exact truth, you need to try to understand the complete story more. That was why Jef just stating no we are a bottled water company didn't offend me too much.

As to PW, well I suppose I've made my opinion known on that enough that no one really wants to hear it again. It's a despicable marketing plan in my humble opinion - I'll leave it at that.

I understand your frustration, but I think it is the responsibility of the consumer to understand. They do give a portion (however small) to building wells and that is admirable, but I always keep in mind, that every business is still a business. The first goal is to make money, every other goal after that is secondary.

Finally, I really enjoy this site and all that Love_me and San do to make this a great place. I agree that all opinions should be welcome, but I also know from my own experience that you get a lot farther on getting your opinion across with kindness rather than meanness. My favorite priest of all time, once told me that if you hate someone you obviously feel some kind of love toward them too. You really want to hurt someone? Just don't care about them, ignore them, that is really the most hurtful thing you can do. So hey, if you don't like Arie, Emily or Jef, try not talking about them. Then they don't get any part of you at all. In my opinion, the best way to dislike someone is to simply not make someone worth your time or effort.

I agree with you here, but since we're on a message board who's purpose originally was to have a place where people could sleuth out the ending to this silly show without a lot of cumbersome rules, and the ending has been spoiled since before the season began, I guess the only thing left to do is share opinions on the contestants involved and the outcome of the season. I have never let what anyone says about a contestant bother me, rather my rant would have to be about posters talking about and baiting other posters.

Thanks for sharing your opinions. I found your post very interesting.

Thank you for responding and sharing your thoughts. That is what I love, people discussing stuff without being angry or snotty to each other. I think we share some thoughts and are different on others, but were both respectful of each others opinions. That is what I would like to see more of rather than the ugly name calling. To me no one person is ever all right or all wrong.

Thank you again. That was fun.

stuckinsc wrote:

Thank you for responding and sharing your thoughts. That is what I love, people discussing stuff without being angry or snotty to each other. I think we share some thoughts and are different on others, but were both respectful of each others opinions. That is what I would like to see more of rather than the ugly name calling. To me no one person is ever all right or all wrong.

Thank you again. That was fun.

I enjoyed it too. I'm certainly opinionated about some things but I always like hearing other opinions too. It makes me think and rethink my own and I think that's a healthy way to think!

When we open our minds, we can all find common ground on which to stand.

Chacharo wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Thank you for responding and sharing your thoughts. That is what I love, people discussing stuff without being angry or snotty to each other. I think we share some thoughts and are different on others, but were both respectful of each others opinions. That is what I would like to see more of rather than the ugly name calling. To me no one person is ever all right or all wrong.

Thank you again. That was fun.

I enjoyed it too. I'm certainly opinionated about some things but I always like hearing other opinions too. It makes me think and rethink my own and I think that's a healthy way to think!

When we open our minds, we can all find common ground on which to stand.

Talking about glass bottles. I was in my local Whole Foods the other day and they have started selling milk in glass bottles. They are half gallon bottles and cost about $4.99, not sure if the glass bottle is returnable. I am definitely tempted to start purchasing my milk that way, because I know that the bottle will have no BPA in it.

Very interesting conversation, hope you didn't mind me butting in.

gurlbrit wrote:

Chacharo wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:

Thank you for responding and sharing your thoughts. That is what I love, people discussing stuff without being angry or snotty to each other. I think we share some thoughts and are different on others, but were both respectful of each others opinions. That is what I would like to see more of rather than the ugly name calling. To me no one person is ever all right or all wrong.

Thank you again. That was fun.

I enjoyed it too. I'm certainly opinionated about some things but I always like hearing other opinions too. It makes me think and rethink my own and I think that's a healthy way to think!

When we open our minds, we can all find common ground on which to stand.

Talking about glass bottles. I was in my local Whole Foods the other day and they have started selling milk in glass bottles. They are half gallon bottles and cost about $4.99, not sure if the glass bottle is returnable. I am definitely tempted to start purchasing my milk that way, because I know that the bottle will have no BPA in it.Very interesting conversation, hope you didn't mind me butting in.

I remember fresh milk in glass bottles delivered fresh to my grandmother's doorstep every other day when we would visit her in Minnesota every summer.
Milk from glass containers tastes soooo much better than milk from plastic or cartons!!!!

[quote="gurlbrit"][quote="Chacharo"]

stuckinsc wrote:



Talking about glass bottles. I was in my local Whole Foods the other day and they have started selling milk in glass bottles. They are half gallon bottles and cost about $4.99, not sure if the glass bottle is returnable. I am definitely tempted to start purchasing my milk that way, because I know that the bottle will have no BPA in it.

Very interesting conversation, hope you didn't mind me butting in.

The more the merrier! I like having people discuss ideas. It is fun!

[quote="stuckinsc"][quote="gurlbrit"]

Chacharo wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:



Talking about glass bottles. I was in my local Whole Foods the other day and they have started selling milk in glass bottles. They are half gallon bottles and cost about $4.99, not sure if the glass bottle is returnable. I am definitely tempted to start purchasing my milk that way, because I know that the bottle will have no BPA in it.

Very interesting conversation, hope you didn't mind me butting in.

The more the merrier! I like having people discuss ideas. It is fun!

Agree! I loved the rest of your comments, stuckinsc, that I missed the first time. About the Viagra ... ... reminded me of Jack Nicholson in that movie. Oh, and about the salt - I completely agree. I quit salting my food in the 70s when I was in high school. I like the taste of food and I find that salt just covers it up. I had to teach my husband NOT to salt my food while he was cooking.

gurlbrit, you might wanna check to see how much they charge for bottle deposit. Honestly, I didn't realize there was one until I got to the checkout counter. I don't remember the exact price, but the milk itself was comparable to the others. The bottle deposit surprised me, although it shouldn't have. The milk was really good! :Smiley:

nd4reality wrote:I would like to somehow see a separate Sleuthing NO SPOILERS SECTION. Its not that I want to be unspoiled but with a surefire ending like this season was, sleuthing was almost unnecessary IMO to a large extent.

I know policing this would be hard but it would be real fun.

Plus with the extreme fangirling and fanfiction written in so many posts on the board it made the little sleuthing an uphill task.

Much as I love to know the ending I prefer when it is figured out by factual sleuthing and not from factual spoilers.

Just my 2 cents and perhaps I need to :hidingchair.

Just ventured here, usually don't like to go negative. NOT being snarky here, please understand, but isn't that the way it is at the old FORT site. No spoilers just sleuthing? Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this site, if so please accept my apologies in advance.

stuckinsc wrote:

That is what I love, people discussing stuff without being angry or snotty to each other. I think we share some thoughts and are different on others, but were both respectful of each others opinions. That is what I would like to see more of rather than the ugly name calling. To me no one person is ever all right or all wrong.
.