Re: Bachelorette 7 General Discussion - Thread #2

[proudmommy50810]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something. :Nod:

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

I agree. Who were CH's "5 to watch"? Is there a link somewhere? I'm curious as to what he said about Ben. F.

This is all I found:

[b]Who will stand out?

Harrison: Ames, the more you to know him you're going to be, like, this guy is so interesting. Ryan, J.P., Ben C. and Ben F., Constantine, and William — my wife thinks William is the winner and should be the next Bachelor already.[/b]

I also found something someone posted that TV Guide had an article that said women would fall in love with Ben F.

[Guest]

A minor alteration in your theory...

Just for fun, I want to play Devil's Advocate today and speculate on the selfish reasons or ulterior motives of the last 10 contestants of Bachelorette season 7 for coming on the show. This is assuming their motive was not to find love with Ashley.Disclaimer......this is purely a cynical exercise and should be taken with a grain of salt:-)


10.William-to gain hollywood exposure and land Saturday Night Live or comedy club gig
9.Nick-to get a lots of clients and book a workout deal
8.Mickey-to get TV deal with the Food Network or TV cooking show
7.Blake-to get more dental patients
6.Lucas-to get over his bitter divorce and travel out of TX
5.Ryan-to promote his solar based company
4.Ames-to see if he might want to buy this franchise
3.Constantine-to promote their family restaurant
2.Ben- free advertising for his winery /wines
1.JP-to get over a break-up and promote his new real estate dev't business venture

[jelle]

Just for fun, I want to play Devil's Advocate today and speculate on the selfish reasons or ulterior motives of the last 10 contestants of Bachelorette season 7 came on the show. This is assuming their motive was not to find love with Ashley.Disclaimer......this is purely a cynical exercise and should be taken with a grain of salt:-)


10.William-to gain hollywood exposure and land Saturday Night Live or comedy club gig
9.Nick-to get a lots of clients and book a workout deal
8.Mickey-to get TV deal with the Food Network or TV cooking show
7.Blake-to get more dental patients
6.Lucas-to get over his bitter divorce and travel out of TX
5.Ryan-to promote his solar based company
4.Ames-he is bored and wants to travel the world for free this time
3.Constantine-to promote their family restaurant
2.Ben- free advertising for his winery /wines
1.JP-to get over a break-up and promote his new real estate dev't business venture

I would call this realistic rather than cynical
I doubt that more than a few of them were actually ready and wanting to get married or even hoping for a serious long -term girlfriend. The odds are just too small that it happen to any one of them. Perhaps I am under estimating the number who were really open to a real relationship with Ashley. I put JP, Ryan, Nick (probably because I really liked him), and perhaps Lucus at the top. Ben certainly probably. Not guys that she likes, but guys that like her and might be serious about getting hitched. So if that is cynical, so be it ..... but I think that is realistic. :greenman:

[chicagoowl]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something. :Nod:

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

I agree. Who were CH's "5 to watch"? Is there a link somewhere? I'm curious as to what he said about Ben. F.

This is all I found:

[b]Who will stand out?

Harrison: Ames, the more you to know him you're going to be, like, this guy is so interesting. Ryan, J.P., Ben C. and Ben F., Constantine, and William — my wife thinks William is the winner and should be the next Bachelor already.[/b]

I also found something someone posted that TV Guide had an article that said women would fall in love with Ben F.

Where can I find the tv guide article?

[Samantharose]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something. :Nod:

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

You'd have to ask Fleiss but he's never been one to hand us the f1 on a platter. He loves nothing better but to hide them until closer until the end. Part of JP's popularity may be editing but we can't totally discount the spoilers which are everywhere. Re Ben: the season isn't over yet and people are already falling in love with him so will probably continue Monday with his 1 on 1 date. He seems to be popular on Twitter as is JP.

I don't believe Fleiss cares all that much about making the viewers happy or he wouldn't throw his leads and f1 under the bus as he has in the past. He's more about the drama.

I think Fleiss is in a little different situation this time. He miscalculated the Bentley stuff, made his lead look foolish, and ratings have dropped significantly. He has to find a way to draw viewers back in and imho continuing to throw Ashley under the bus won't do. They have to start rehabbing her image so viewers actually care about her and her journey.

[pavalygurl]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something.

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

You'd have to ask Fleiss but he's never been one to hand us the f1 on a platter. He loves nothing better but to hide them until closer until the end. Part of JP's popularity may be editing but we can't totally discount the spoilers which are everywhere. Re Ben: the season isn't over yet and people are already falling in love with him so will probably continue Monday with his 1 on 1 date. He seems to be popular on Twitter as is JP.

I don't believe Fleiss cares all that much about making the viewers happy or he wouldn't throw his leads and f1 under the bus as he has in the past. He's more about the drama.

I agree. The season is not over and I see Ben's SL arc on the rise. He may not turn out to be her F1, but she is definitely "into him".

I cannot wait for Monday's episode.

[albean99]

IA, Pavalygurl.

I don't know a lot about the timing involved in editing but don't think it's done on the fly, Samantharose. I doubt they changed JP's edit because of the ratings so it does make me wonder if he's really the f1, why is he so out there? What I don't think is that it's to salvage Ashley's image. JP isn't the only nice guy there who could make a good match with her. I do think things will start to change next week that will help us to see where they're going. It may end up casting doubt on JP which could be a good thing for him being f1 as long as it's not too much doubt.

[ironcat]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something. :Nod:

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

You'd have to ask Fleiss but he's never been one to hand us the f1 on a platter. He loves nothing better but to hide them until closer until the end. Part of JP's popularity may be editing but we can't totally discount the spoilers which are everywhere. Re Ben: the season isn't over yet and people are already falling in love with him so will probably continue Monday with his 1 on 1 date. He seems to be popular on Twitter as is JP.

I don't believe Fleiss cares all that much about making the viewers happy or he wouldn't throw his leads and f1 under the bus as he has in the past. He's more about the drama.

I think Fleiss is in a little different situation this time. He miscalculated the Bentley stuff, made his lead look foolish, and ratings have dropped significantly. He has to find a way to draw viewers back in and imho continuing to throw Ashley under the bus won't do. They have to start rehabbing her image so viewers actually care about her and her journey.

I agree that for a number of seasons, Fleiss' attitude was more about the drama/shocking result than about ending up with a couple the audience would embrace. That's not the way the franchise started off, but I suspect after so many disappointments of couples breaking up almost immediately, he decided to go the other route. However, due to Ali's success, Fleiss has now seen that if he can end up with an actual engagement the audience is happy about and willing to follow post show, it is worth A LOT of publicity to him, and probably ultimately trumps the value of the outrageous ending. I suspect that's why the editing on Brad's season, despite the early Chantal spoiler that did tend to send many of us looking in the wrong direction, went the way it did. It wasn't a shocking ending to the unspoiled fan at all. Emily was clearly expected to be the fan favorite, and as such was presented with no flaws (yes, some say no personality as well), her tragic backstory was sure to pull at the average viewer's heartstrings, and the majority of viewers expected her to be F1 and were thrilled when she ended so (of course that only lasted a short time until ATFR). Obviously it was not possible for Brad and Emily to take over the mantle from Ali and Roberto and promote the success of the show as a result. But I suspect that Fleiss would like a successful, real couple to go out and promote his show if possible, as he has seen the benefits he has reaped from Ali, and may be more inclined to go this route from now on, rather than leave the audience in stunned disbelief, and with a couple that the majority couldn't care less about.

[Samantharose]

IA, Pavalygurl.

I don't know a lot about the timing involved in editing but don't think it's done on the fly, Samantharose. I doubt they changed JP's edit because of the ratings so it does make me wonder if he's really the f1, why is he so out there? What I don't think is that it's to salvage Ashley's image. JP isn't the only nice guy there who could make a good match with her. I do think things will start to change next week that will help us to see where they're going. It may end up casting doubt on JP which could be a good thing for him being f1 as long as it's not too much doubt.

I'm not saying they changed JP's edit. Just that what is said in the previews is sometimes more exaggerated than what we see when the show actually airs. With regard to Ashley's image, I do notice a change in the tone of the articles coming out this last week and all the vblogs by former contestants sticking up for her etc. TPTB even trotted out Ashley and Roberto to stand up for her. To me it sounds like a bit of damage control.

[Ne14fan]

I agree that for a number of seasons, Fleiss' attitude was more about the drama/shocking result than about ending up with a couple the audience would embrace. That's not the way the franchise started off, but I suspect after so many disappointments of couples breaking up almost immediately, he decided to go the other route. However, due to Ali's success, Fleiss has now seen that if he can end up with an actual engagement the audience is happy about and willing to follow post show, it is worth A LOT of publicity to him, and probably ultimately trumps the value of the outrageous ending. I suspect that's why the editing on Brad's season, despite the early Chantal spoiler that did tend to send many of us looking in the wrong direction, went the way it did. It wasn't a shocking ending to the unspoiled fan at all. Emily was clearly expected to be the fan favorite, and as such was presented with no flaws (yes, some say no personality as well), her tragic backstory was sure to pull at the average viewer's heartstrings, and the majority of viewers expected her to be F1 and were thrilled when she ended so (of course that only lasted a short time until ATFR). Obviously it was not possible for Brad and Emily to take over the mantle from Ali and Roberto and promote the success of the show as a result. But I suspect that Fleiss would like a successful, real couple to go out and promote his show if possible, as he has seen the benefits he has reaped from Ali, and may be more inclined to go this route from now on, rather than leave the audience in stunned disbelief, and with a couple that the majority couldn't care less about.

Nice post, Ironcat!! :missclap:

[Samantharose]

This isn't addressed to anyone in particular but do think there's an element of rewriting history this season. Ashley was clearly very into Bentley from the beginning and really wasn't paying as much attention to the other guys while he was there and even right after he left. She did have chemistry with JP early on however I don't believe it meant she was as far along as many think and there are still other guys on her mind at this point. There was something between Ashley & Ben starting at the orphanage date and continuing at their 1 on 1 date. Ashley not only appeared to have a great time but was very flirty with Ben and even seemed smitten. I think Ashley is still feeling out things with different guys and even though JP is a frontrunner, I wouldn't totally discount anyone else.

I don't think we should look at the season from how it ends according to RS or even sleuthing but where it is now. I think the editing is so strange and we don't know everything about what happens later in the season so there could be some surprises along the way. Don't be too quick to say it's over and put this season to bed. You might miss something. :Nod:

If what you're saying is what really happened, why do you think the editors chose to tell the story so much from JP's perspective, causing the vast majority of fans (over 90% I'm hearing) to support him, and kept Ben so much in the background until the last 4 episodes, if this was not really the way things were playing out on the ground? Do you think that was a wise editing decision? And why did CH specifically tell us before the premiere that Ben would be the one the audience fell in love with, and then the show is edited in such a way that a large portion of the audience is almost unaware of him for the whole first half of it?

You'd have to ask Fleiss but he's never been one to hand us the f1 on a platter. He loves nothing better but to hide them until closer until the end. Part of JP's popularity may be editing but we can't totally discount the spoilers which are everywhere. Re Ben: the season isn't over yet and people are already falling in love with him so will probably continue Monday with his 1 on 1 date. He seems to be popular on Twitter as is JP.

I don't believe Fleiss cares all that much about making the viewers happy or he wouldn't throw his leads and f1 under the bus as he has in the past. He's more about the drama.

I think Fleiss is in a little different situation this time. He miscalculated the Bentley stuff, made his lead look foolish, and ratings have dropped significantly. He has to find a way to draw viewers back in and imho continuing to throw Ashley under the bus won't do. They have to start rehabbing her image so viewers actually care about her and her journey.

I agree that for a number of seasons, Fleiss' attitude was more about the drama/shocking result than about ending up with a couple the audience would embrace. That's not the way the franchise started off, but I suspect after so many disappointments of couples breaking up almost immediately, he decided to go the other route. However, due to Ali's success, Fleiss has now seen that if he can end up with an actual engagement the audience is happy about and willing to follow post show, it is worth A LOT of publicity to him, and probably ultimately trumps the value of the outrageous ending. I suspect that's why the editing on Brad's season, despite the early Chantal spoiler that did tend to send many of us looking in the wrong direction, went the way it did. It wasn't a shocking ending to the unspoiled fan at all. Emily was clearly expected to be the fan favorite, and as such was presented with no flaws (yes, some say no personality as well), her tragic backstory was sure to pull at the average viewer's heartstrings, and the majority of viewers expected her to be F1 and were thrilled when she ended so (of course that only lasted a short time until ATFR). Obviously it was not possible for Brad and Emily to take over the mantle from Ali and Roberto and promote the success of the show as a result. But I suspect that Fleiss would like a successful, real couple to go out and promote his show if possible, as he has seen the benefits he has reaped from Ali, and may be more inclined to go this route from now on, rather than leave the audience in stunned disbelief, and with a couple that the majority couldn't care less about.

Plus if the rumors about Ashley going on DWTS are true, she needs a better image. Jake and Melissa were great draws for DWTS thus benefiting the Bachelor franchise and ABC. It all comes back to ratings and money! LOL

[chicagoowl]

I agree that for a number of seasons, Fleiss' attitude was more about the drama/shocking result than about ending up with a couple the audience would embrace. That's not the way the franchise started off, but I suspect after so many disappointments of couples breaking up almost immediately, he decided to go the other route. However, due to Ali's success, Fleiss has now seen that if he can end up with an actual engagement the audience is happy about and willing to follow post show, it is worth A LOT of publicity to him, and probably ultimately trumps the value of the outrageous ending. I suspect that's why the editing on Brad's season, despite the early Chantal spoiler that did tend to send many of us looking in the wrong direction, went the way it did. It wasn't a shocking ending to the unspoiled fan at all. Emily was clearly expected to be the fan favorite, and as such was presented with no flaws (yes, some say no personality as well), her tragic backstory was sure to pull at the average viewer's heartstrings, and the majority of viewers expected her to be F1 and were thrilled when she ended so (of course that only lasted a short time until ATFR). Obviously it was not possible for Brad and Emily to take over the mantle from Ali and Roberto and promote the success of the show as a result. But I suspect that Fleiss would like a successful, real couple to go out and promote his show if possible, as he has seen the benefits he has reaped from Ali, and may be more inclined to go this route from now on, rather than leave the audience in stunned disbelief, and with a couple that the majority couldn't care less about.

I agree. We have to take into account the average viewer, not us. For now the average viewer has been inundated with the Bentley stuff. Most think Ashley is an idiot with a broken "picker". Most think she will end up with no one. For them it'll be a pleasant surprise if she ends up with JP. So it's really not so obvious that JP is F1 to the "average viewer."

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