Episode 5 - 6/24 - Bachelorette 9 - Discussion - Spoilers

crazyjaney wrote:I liked this Epi!!!
My first thought... zak was going to be a priest... That was a wtf moment!
I know Des is all into Brooks who could blame her?  Their igloo kiss was awesome!
I am strange but I totally love Michael!!
I was cheering him on when he was going after Ben.  Can you say total turn on?   Lol.
I did not like Ben from the start and boy did he show it with his comments in the limo after he was eliminated. And wtf with his anti Catholic comment?  The guy is just an all around a hole. Good riddance.
Now back to Michael I know Des doesn't pick him and you could tell she was not digging his awesome interrogation of Ben. that's fine i think des is too calm for him.  Michael needs a fiery and passionate scarlett o hara type gal who will want to toe to toe with him and then take it to the bedroom!  Men like that are hard to come by.  

It's clear though who the front runner is.  I think Brooks and Des are very well suited for each other in terms of personality etc.

Whew crazyjaney, thank you for bringing Rhett Butler into my day! :Drool: 

crazyjaney wrote:I liked this Epi!!!
My first thought... zak was going to be a priest... That was a wtf moment!
I know Des is all into Brooks who could blame her?  Their igloo kiss was awesome!
I am strange but I totally love Michael!!
I was cheering him on when he was going after Ben.  Can you say total turn on?   Lol.
I did not like Ben from the start and boy did he show it with his comments in the limo after he was eliminated. And wtf with his anti Catholic comment?  The guy is just an all around a hole. Good riddance.
Now back to Michael I know Des doesn't pick him and you could tell she was not digging his awesome interrogation of Ben. that's fine i think des is too calm for him.  Michael needs a fiery and passionate scarlett o hara type gal who will want to toe to toe with him and then take it to the bedroom!  Men like that are hard to come by.  

It's clear though who the front runner is.  I think Brooks and Des are very well suited for each other in terms of personality etc.

I like him. And I was cheering him on, too. I love when a guy has the power to use his brain and wit to find the truth, cares about the truth and is protecting someone whom they care about.

\"canyonvue wrote: I like him. And I was cheering him on, too. I love when a guy has the power to use his brain and wit to find the truth, cares about the truth and is protecting someone whom they care about.

Oh I liked Michael's beat down of Ben too!  :Smiley:   Michael's a prosecutor and he's seen every lame excuse in the book, so he knows a weasel when he seems one, or "snake in the grass," as he said.  I liked that.  

Ben came across as smug, smary, self-righteous, superior, and sanctimonious from the get go.  No wonder he had no friends in the house.  Frankly I think Michael took it easy on him and doesn't deserve the "bully" label he's been getting from some fans.

Take their conversation in the hottug.  Michael asks him the obvious question--what happened between you and Brody's mother?  Ben knows that story is not going to cast him in a great light so he just says he doesn't talk about it.  Fair enough.  But then he plows on and plays the God card by saying God meant it to happen and for Brody to be born.  At this point I'm screaming at my TV:  So Ben, God MADE you have unprotected sex with your girlfriend--when you were 22 or 23 and presumably knew about things?  God encourages premarital sex now?  And He thinks it's fine you didn't marry the mother?  Wow, how convenient for you.  

Then comes the conversation over dinner.  Michael starts haltingly and keeps it vague at first--Why don't you think the guys like you?  Ben gives his usual "I'm here for Des" excuse. Then Michael gets specific, questioning him for not going to church with everyone for Easter.  Now Ben starts grasping for excuses:  the church was Catholic and the service was in German.  Michael points out that the whole gang attended, including a Mormon and a Jew.   There are certainly Protestant churches in Munich and maybe even an English-language service if he'd been curious enough to ask a producer to Google one for him.   So what was the real reason?  The implication is that Ben just wanted a break from being around the guys.   I have two other theories:  1.  He has zero intellectual curiosity, no interest in the world beyond Texas; 2.  He was hung over and wanted to sleep in.  Actually all 3 reasons could be right.     

Des, who is looking genuinely uncomfortable by now, tries to redirect the conversation by asking about family customs they grew up with or want to continue with own kids.  Ben digs himself into an even deeper hole by saying he will continue the family tradition of going to Easter service together every year.  (I wonder if the edit changed the order here; seems a dumb, unaware thing to say after you've just been slammed for skipping Easter service.)  Ben then plays the pity card by saying this was his first Easter away from Brody. :strings1  This is red meat for Michael.   "You haven't called your son the whole time we've been here."   Ben gives the time difference excuse, and I'm yelling at my TV again.  The difference between German time and US Central time is at most 7 hours--you have half the day where both of you are awake at the same time and can talk.  (When my son was in Iraq for a year he called his wife and 2 year-old-daughter in Alabama EVERY DAY without fail, and that's an even greater time difference.  It can be done if you want to do it.)   Ben had no excuse:  he should have gone to church in the morning and called home in the afternoon.  Easy for him to do both.  

Instead how does he spend his time in Munich?  The edit may be unfair, but before the date--in that great awkward scene of Michael, Chris, and Ben sitting in the hotel room--Ben says "I need a drink."  And then there's his  famous line in the limo after his dismissal, where he tells the producer he wants to go to a bar and get drunk.

Still, Ben is nothing if not resourceful and comes up with a final, more time-encompassing excuse:  It's hard to talk to Brody because he keeps asking when he's coming home and Ben can't tell him.  So OK, Ben:  It's easier for Brody not to talk to you AT ALL rather than talk to you and not be given a definite return date?  Brody is three--even if you COULD say "definitely by May 10" that's not going to mean anything to him anyway.   Which raises another question:  If you are so dedicated to your son and don't want to hurt him by being away for long periods--why are you are on the Bachelorette?  And why would you even consider going on TB?  

Finally, shown up as a liar and a hypocrite, Ben does the only thing he can do:  he plays the martyr card.   He's shrewd enough to realize he can only lose by getting angry, so he gets up and leaves the table, and we get the "good Christian man" voiceover.   Fortunately, Des is not an idiot and knows what's going on--plus she's not interested in Ben anyway--so she dismisses him.

I'm one of those who's not crazy about "drama"--I would have taken 20 minutes of Des and Brooks making googoo eyes at each other instead--but if we have to have drama these were a great couple of scenes. 

Michael was never going to make it to the end but his "interrogation" didn't do him any harm with Des and it sure looked like he was enjoying himself!

Well, Ben did say he was going to win this competition. So that shows his mindset towards this process. Case closed. James is a different story. He's a flapper mouth along with his buddy Mikey and they did what flapper mouths do when they're pissed. They flap their mouth to soothe their wounded egos. If Drew and Kasey weren't there this would be a non-story. Even if they were just joking around , they should have considered the audience around them.

He did look like he was enjoying himself. And the people who enjoy a good court scene enjoyed those scenes.

eusebeia wrote:

\"canyonvue wrote: I like him. And I was cheering him on, too. I love when a guy has the power to use his brain and wit to find the truth, cares about the truth and is protecting someone whom they care about.

Oh I liked Michael's beat down of Ben too!  :Smiley:   Michael's a prosecutor and he's seen every lame excuse in the book, so he knows a weasel when he seems one, or "snake in the grass," as he said.  I liked that.  

Ben came across as smug, smary, self-righteous, superior, and sanctimonious from the get go.  No wonder he had no friends in the house.  Frankly I think Michael took it easy on him and doesn't deserve the "bully" label he's been getting from some fans.

Take their conversation in the hottug.  Michael asks him the obvious question--what happened between you and Brody's mother?  Ben knows that story is not going to cast him in a great light so he just says he doesn't talk about it.  Fair enough.  But then he plows on and plays the God card by saying God meant it to happen and for Brody to be born.  At this point I'm screaming at my TV:  So Ben, God MADE you have unprotected sex with your girlfriend--when you were 22 or 23 and presumably knew about things?  God encourages premarital sex now?  And He thinks it's fine you didn't marry the mother?  Wow, how convenient for you.  

Then comes the conversation over dinner.  Michael starts haltingly and keeps it vague at first--Why don't you think the guys like you?  Ben gives his usual "I'm here for Des" excuse. Then Michael gets specific, questioning him for not going to church with everyone for Easter.  Now Ben starts grasping for excuses:  the church was Catholic and the service was in German.  Michael points out that the whole gang attended, including a Mormon and a Jew.   There are certainly Protestant churches in Munich and maybe even an English-language service if he'd been curious enough to ask a producer to Google one for him.   So what was the real reason?  The implication is that Ben just wanted a break from being around the guys.   I have two other theories:  1.  He has zero intellectual curiosity, no interest in the world beyond Texas; 2.  He was hung over and wanted to sleep in.  Actually all 3 reasons could be right.     

Des, who is looking genuinely uncomfortable by now, tries to redirect the conversation by asking about family customs they grew up with or want to continue with own kids.  Ben digs himself into an even deeper hole by saying he will continue the family tradition of going to Easter service together every year.  (I wonder if the edit changed the order here; seems a dumb, unaware thing to say after you've just been slammed for skipping Easter service.)  Ben then plays the pity card by saying this was his first Easter away from Brody. :strings1  This is red meat for Michael.   "You haven't called your son the whole time we've been here."   Ben gives the time difference excuse, and I'm yelling at my TV again.  The difference between German time and US Central time is at most 7 hours--you have half the day where both of you are awake at the same time and can talk.  (When my son was in Iraq for a year he called his wife and 2 year-old-daughter in Alabama EVERY DAY without fail, and that's an even greater time difference.  It can be done if you want to do it.)   Ben had no excuse:  he should have gone to church in the morning and called home in the afternoon.  Easy for him to do both.  

Instead how does he spend his time in Munich?  The edit may be unfair, but before the date--in that great awkward scene of Michael, Chris, and Ben sitting in the hotel room--Ben says "I need a drink."  And then there's his  famous line in the limo after his dismissal, where he tells the producer he wants to go to a bar and get drunk.

Still, Ben is nothing if not resourceful and comes up with a final, more time-encompassing excuse:  It's hard to talk to Brody because he keeps asking when he's coming home and Ben can't tell him.  So OK, Ben:  It's easier for Brody not to talk to you AT ALL rather than talk to you and not be given a definite return date?  Brody is three--even if you COULD say "definitely by May 10" that's not going to mean anything to him anyway.   Which raises another question:  If you are so dedicated to your son and don't want to hurt him by being away for long periods--why are you are on the Bachelorette?  And why would you even consider going on TB?  

Finally, shown up as a liar and a hypocrite, Ben does the only thing he can do:  he plays the martyr card.   He's shrewd enough to realize he can only lose by getting angry, so he gets up and leaves the table, and we get the "good Christian man" voiceover.   Fortunately, Des is not an idiot and knows what's going on--plus she's not interested in Ben anyway--so she dismisses him.

I'm one of those who's not crazy about "drama"--I would have taken 20 minutes of Des and Brooks making googoo eyes at each other instead--but if we have to have drama these were a great couple of scenes. 

Michael was never going to make it to the end but his "interrogation" didn't do him any harm with Des and it sure looked like he was enjoying himself!

I agree with everything you said here. I still like Michael although all the drama with Mikey and him towards Ben and now James is a bit much. However, the way he went about the "cross exam" in the boat was fine by me. I remember him telling Des that someone might disrespect the women in his life (his gram/mom/sister) but NOT ON HIS WATCH. He is now extending that concern to Des. I applaud him for this action. Des may not want the protection she's being offered, but I would rather someone have my back than be feeding me a line of BS. JMHO.

I know it's really late to post about this, but one thing has really confused me about the ending of the episode.  Des and Chris H both say that since Des has made up her mind on who to cut, they don't want to "put the guys through" a cocktail party.  So the cocktail parties are ordeals now???    

The guys usually look forward to them a lot.  The 8 guys who went on the group date had very little time with her in Munich; the cocktail party would have been a chance to hang out and chew the fat a bit.  When did the cocktail party become EXCLUSIVELY an elimination derby?  

I know that the real reason for the cancellation was because they wanted to spin the James drama out for another episode--yeah like pretty much the ENTIRE next episode.  But obviously they couldn't say that.  But the alternative "explanation" they came up with contradicted everything they've been saying about the cocktail parties so far.   You'd think they could have come up with something else.

If you know who you want to stay and who to go, why put them all through more ridiculous tension, not to mention hours of filming?
Most of these guys realize they are matter of time guys anyway. They pretty much know who the final 4 are from the meat and geek. So yeah, the cocktail parties do get tedious and unnecessary.

des mentioned she finds the group dates really tiring. i imagine she feels the same about the cocktail parties. i do think she is an introvert and is probably pretty maxed out by the show so would welcome the alone time.

Anyone would be maxed out by going down to F4 as Des did in Sean's season, then have to assume the Bachette role. From what I've read the filming is intrusive and endless, and the rose ceremonies take hours,especially when there are still a large number of bachelors around. Add in the emotional component, and anyone would welcome some time away from the whole process.