Re: Arie Luyendyk Jr - Lauren Burnham - Bachelor 22 - Discussion #2

by sanlee088 Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:13 pm

Lucas15 wrote:
*snipped*
IMO the final decision - about getting back with Lauren, was one that they both had to make with full knowledge of the consequences, and to me they appear to have decided that it was well worth the public criticism, and they both seem to have very supportive families and that counts for a whole lot more IMO than anonymous commenters on IG.

Amen to the bolded! 22 - Arie Luyendyk Jr - Lauren Burnham - Bachelor 22 - Discussion #2 - Page 62 4256136633

by **Sprite** Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:30 pm

sanlee088 wrote:
Lucas15 wrote:
*snipped*
IMO the final decision - about getting back with Lauren, was one that they both had to make with full knowledge of the consequences, and to me they appear to have decided that it was well worth the public criticism, and they both seem to have very supportive families and that counts for a whole lot more IMO than anonymous commenters on IG.

Amen to the bolded!

I don't know. To me they seem to be rather sensitive to the criticisms from SM and they are still in the honeymoon stage. Real life hasn't even started. I foresee more screening of comments in their future.

by North Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:58 pm

sanlee088 wrote:
Lucas15 wrote:
*snipped*
IMO the final decision - about getting back with Lauren, was one that they both had to make with full knowledge of the consequences, and to me they appear to have decided that it was well worth the public criticism, and they both seem to have very supportive families and that counts for a whole lot more IMO than anonymous commenters on IG.

Amen to the bolded!

Absolutely! They'll need that love and support as they move forward with their relationship and blend families. And good for them.

But for me (i.e.: IMO), they have proven themselves repeatedly -- by word and deed, on show and off, comments on social and traditional media -- not my kind of people (more Arie than Lauren though -- he has a more "robust" body of work to analyze!). In the real world, we never would've been friends. And that's okay too.

You are absolutely right, my opinion doesn't (and shouldn't) matter to them. I only post here, so I doubt my decline of friendship is an affront to the happy couple. That's the fun of this board, right? We get to sleuth, and speculate, and share lots and lots and lots of opinions -- provided, of course, those opinions are preceded or followed by an IMO. giggling

Just last week -- I was championing Arie & Lauren's rapid-fire, drive through marriage. And I still stand by that. If they want to do it, I say go for it! Don't let anyone else determine your future...and I feel that way about everything and everyone, regardless if they are my kind of people or not. As my mama always reminds me, it does take all kinds!

@Lucas15 and @Sanlee088 -- I have appreciated reading your posts throughout the season -- usually in opposition to mine! But always so well-thought out and written. If we all had the same opinions, this board would be super boring and we wouldn't want that!

by Aunties_Love Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:49 pm

Zaynab wrote:
BKay wrote:I'm curious about Kendall's remark in this lengthy interview she did with Bekah where she said "A lot of people on the show, if not everyone, knew he was going to break-up with Becca before she did. She was blindsided, but everyone else knew."

I don't understand this - her friends knew and didn't tell her? Sorry if this was discussed when the article came out.

http://www.vulture.com/2018/03/bekah-m-kendall-bachelor-conversation.html
They mean he had told the producers and it got around even to the Canadian Bachelor Brad Smith, who told his Girlfriend he heard apparently he's gonna break up with her who apparently knows Caroline and asked Caroline about it before it happened, in the Almost Famous Pod Caroline said she called Becca to see how they were doing and Becca said they were fine so Caroline said she assumed it was a rumor.

IMO, the Canadian Bach, Brad is very friendly with the producers from that franchise and those producers and Fleiss likely talked.....wouldn't it be something if what happened in Bach Can this season influenced what happened in Arie's bach season? At least with Arie, even if he did choose the wrong one first, he corrected it and chose the one he wanted in the first place, unlike Bach Can Chris who chose the person he settled for but didn't go after the one that he loved. IMO

Lucas15 wrote:
North wrote:
I am unclear about what you are referring to here (re: 1st bolded phrase). I'd have to go find it but, but I'm sure I read an article quoting Robert Mills, that TPTB did NOT know about Arie going to visit Emily and if they had, they would've filmed it.

I was referring to this season (not Emily's season). IMO the apparent "unsanctioned" visit to Charlotte may have resulted in production putting Arie on as short a leash as they possibly could - they knew he had gone rogue before and this season IMO they could well have wanted to make sure they didn't miss any camera opportunities.

North wrote:I'm also not sure how much I tie the cease and desist letter into this season, as a prediction indicator for the "most-dramatic" finale ever (re: 2nd bolded phrase). If anything, IMO, TPTB were just hedging their bets, as they should every season but I am curious about your speculation. When you say "almost immediately" -- is "immediately" after the Rose Ceremony or after he called Lauren for closure/reunification?

The opinion I expressed was based on information Courtney talked about (in her RS podcast) when she first met up with Arie after he returned from filming. In fact, though I didn't mention it in this post, Courtney also said that Arie told her he knew he was making a mistake (ie in not choosing Lauren) at the actual FRC after Lauren gave her "speech" to Arie. So that's pretty immediate, IMO, and that's what I was referring to when I made the observation. IMO the unknown piece is just when Arie could have contacted production to try and reach out to past leads for advice - I just happen to think that was very soon after he got back from filming.

North wrote:So if TPTB knew immediately after the FRC, that means they actually know Arie better than Arie knows Arie (and his predilection for breaking the rules!). Which to me, I find a little sad only because it would've been better for everyone had he proposed to the woman he wanted most (Lauren) the first go-round. So if they know Arie so well, why didn't TPTB film more of his interaction with Lauren B. (leading up to break-up and then afterward as well)? This is "reality" tv after all, we got reality with the break-up -- it would've been great to see and hear reality with the reunion (IMO). Because it was pretty obvious (IMO) that Arie and Lauren's filmed tv "reunion," that the real reunion had already happened online and over the phone, and this filmed scene was just "window dressing."

As above, I think Arie made contact with production very soon after he returned from filming so they didn't have to know Arie all that well - he told them what he was thinking.

IMO of course it would have been better had Arie picked and proposed to the woman he loved the first time as there wouldn't have been any second time. But he didn't. As to why he didn't is something I can only speculate on because I don't know what was really going on in his head. I DO have reason to believe that Arie may not have been "alone" in thinking Becca was - at that particular time - the better choice. CH did a podcast with Kaitlyn and at about 52:28 into Part 1 CH says:

All you can do with life is make the best decision with the information you have at that time. And he chose to propose to Becca because that was
the information he had in his heart at the time. Turned out, he was wrong. It's a big whiff, I'll give you that, and put under a big spotlight it
doesn't look good. But at the same time, the information he had at the time, and how we all felt at the time, it was right.
source

The curious thing to me is that CH included the part about "how we all felt at the time" - because I don't know what to make of the "we" stuff. How does anyone else but Arie get injected into his decision. To what extent did or didn't those "others" influence Arie's decision?

North wrote:I do think he and Lauren are a WAY better match and wished he had enough self-awareness or courage to pick her the first time.

I'm not certain how much Arie "trusted" himself to make a decision with his heart. IMO his past history suggests that he hasn't had very good luck with his heart (Cassie Harshman and Emily) as those decisions didn't turn out well for him. It's not impossible for me to suspect that he could have been easily swayed away from trusting his heart and into using his head - I can easily imagine what I would have said to Arie to influence him.

IMO, I am believing that right after filming ended, everyone knew that Arie was having second thoughts. IMO, the producers especially knew so they began their molding on how things were going to go from there. IMO, it is plausible cause they knew how Arie was thinking that the demands on RS and the legalities happened, that the way things were edited in the beginning with no clear F1 coming forth, because Arie IMO was uncertain so they had to edit the first 3 epi's the way they did. IMO, the first time that Arie and Becca may of had their safehouse visit in Arizona may of exacerbated the decision as it may of been starting then that Arie was more certain that he didn't want to continue with Becca. IMO, they likely only had 1 more safehouse visit between then, Becca's work, and the holidays, so they likely didn't spend much time together. IMO.

GuardianAngel wrote:It's funny there are a few contestants who have said, no he didn't contact me, wish he would have contacted me, I wonder why he didn't. However it looks like he took the opportunity during BWG to ask Rachel how long would it take to get over the F2 elimination. BWG started filming Dec 2nd, so it tells me how soon after filming Arie was having second thoughts or whatever was happening.

Also, I find it hard to believe Brad Smith of all people, Bachelor Canada would just so happen to get the scoop of what was going to happen, and conveniently his g/f knew Caroline.

IMO, since Brad is still great friends with the Canadian producers, IMO he could very well of heard something from them IF the Canadian producers are in touch with the US ones as I suspect. Call me crazy but it is weird how this season has parallels of Bach Can Chris season where Chris settled on one that he really didn't want vs going after the one he did. Guess Arie didn't settle and went after the one he wanted after all in Lauren. Hope they succeed.

EVERYTHING ABOVE IS IMO.

by sanlee088 Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:35 am

North wrote:
sanlee088 wrote:
Lucas15 wrote:
*snipped*
IMO the final decision - about getting back with Lauren, was one that they both had to make with full knowledge of the consequences, and to me they appear to have decided that it was well worth the public criticism, and they both seem to have very supportive families and that counts for a whole lot more IMO than anonymous commenters on IG.

Amen to the bolded!

sanlee088 wrote:
Lucas15 wrote:
*snipped*
IMO the final decision - about getting back with Lauren, was one that they both had to make with full knowledge of the consequences, and to me they appear to have decided that it was well worth the public criticism, and they both seem to have very supportive families and that counts for a whole lot more IMO than anonymous commenters on IG.

Amen to the bolded!

@Lucas15 and @Sanlee088 -- I have appreciated reading your posts throughout the season -- usually in opposition to mine! But always so well-thought out and written. If we all had the same opinions, this board would be super boring and we wouldn't want that!

Absolutely! Thanks @North! :thismuch:

by Amberish Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:43 am

No matter what happened and when, with absolute certainty, *IMO* Becca would not be this season's Bachelorette had TPTB not filmed the breakup. Further, TPTB would not have filmed the breakup had Arie not agreed to the breakup being filmed. *IMO*

Moreover, had the breakup not been filmed, Arie's proposal to Lauren WITH the Neil Lane ring would have never happened, nor would ABC be in the least bit interested in televising Arie and Lauren's wedding. *IMO*

With all that said, I don't believe, for even a minute, that Arie agreed to film the breakup for a Neil Lane ring or televised proposal. Instead, IMO, TPTB let Arie know that filming the breakup as the only path for Becca to be the Bachelorette --- because it was the only path --- and the Neil Lane ring and possible television wedding icing on the cake.

by bleuberry Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:49 am

I think she'd still be filming the Bachelorette had Arie broke up with her privately. It's still pretty huge of an ordeal. The minute he changed his mind, I think it was hers. JMO.

by littlereddress Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:16 am

bleuberry wrote:I think she'd still be filming the Bachelorette had Arie broke up with her privately. It's still pretty huge of an ordeal. The minute he changed his mind, I think it was hers. JMO.

It may have been hers because he broke up with her but the on-camera breakup with the cameras following her in the house telling Arie not to touch her or try to comfort her and just get out, as well as with the cameras following her trip home, garnered her more support and love from the public than a private breakup ever would have IMO. It's human nature to want to root for her. IMO I think this is what TPTB wanted when they knew Arie had changed his mind - drumming up support for Becca and amping it up with filming the breakup the way they did. It was raw. Had it been a private breakup or even if she knew beforehand we would never have known what was said between them. This way people coming away feeling Arie is a major douche and Becca is our wonderful new bachelorette and she will have her justice with incredible public sympathy/support. This is a very good position to be in going into a new season very soon after a painful breakup with fiancee that she thought was a forever relationship for her (even though in an interview she said she "knew" and he told her he was not all in and struggling). If Arie had stayed with Becca and they had chosen any other bachelorette I just don't think the public would be as excited. Women can relate to her story of being jilted. The girl was getting money, billboards taken out, her lead banned from her state. When has that happened before? All IMO.

by SarahD Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:57 am

Arie cannot claim credit for Becca being the Bachelorette if he does not claim being the biggest jerk and liar for having blindsided her fiancé. IMO almost everyone knew before Becca! Rolling Eyes

by Guest Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:04 am

SarahD wrote:Arie cannot claim credit for Becca being the Bachelorette if he does not claim being the biggest jerk and liar for having blindsided her fiancé. IMO almost everyone knew before Becca!

According to Arie he told Becca he had only one leg in the relationship. This of course doesn't mean she wasn't emotionally blindsided, it seems she wanted things with Arie so bad that she ignored all the warning signs. All IMO.

I still don't understand what was meant with them looking at houses. Lauren is moving in with Arie. So Becca and Arie looking for a house meant that Arie was going to move to Minnesota?

However, we know Arie wanted his pick to move to Arizona, so that means the one who was deceived may have been Arie. I think Kendall could have had the final rose if she had told Arie she was ready to move to Arizona and start a family, but instead she was truthful and went home. I think we'll find out what Becca really wants this season. All IMO.

by Aria Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:09 am

I don't really understand the confusion. Becca specifically said that they were looking in houses in AZ and they were trying to figure out what to do with her apartment in Minnesota.

by mprssdbyu Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:11 am

rosefever wrote:
SarahD wrote:Arie cannot claim credit for Becca being the Bachelorette if he does not claim being the biggest jerk and liar for having blindsided her fiancé. IMO almost everyone knew before Becca!
According to Arie he told Becca he had only one leg in the relationship. This of course doesn't mean she wasn't emotionally blindsided, it seems she wanted things with Arie so bad that she ignored all the warning signs. All IMO.

I still don't understand what was meant with them looking at houses. Lauren is moving in with Arie. So Becca and Arie looking for a house meant that Arie was going to move to Minnesota?

However, we know Arie wanted his pick to move to Arizona, so that means the one who was deceived may have been Arie. I think Kendall could have had the final rose if she had told Arie she was ready to move to Arizona and start a family, but instead she was truthful and went home. I think we'll find out what Becca really wants this season. All IMO.

According to Arie, did he share that news before he so kindly said "I'm afraid I won't have a chance if I wait any longer". You know, the guy who contacted Lauren weeks ago, before breakup day, the guy who tested the waters before he dropped the hammer on Becca? He has no ballz along with many other things he's lacking in. JMO

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