Re: Episode 5 - 6/20 - Discussion - Thread #1

[deedreamer]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

[anders]

Wow, I see the camps are starting already.

I am going to attempt to keep open minded this season, and not try to make the editing pattern fit the conclusion I have already reached. Wonder how long I'll be able to keep this up!

Can we start a camp for those who remain camp-less? Camp Outside-Looking-In? I'm not attached to any of these people. I guess that makes me objective, but it's also bringing everybody's negatives to the surface for me. Bummer.

I'm campless - always am - it's counterproductive to have a favourite and attempt look at the edits objectively.

[anders]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

[jojo47]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.

Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

[Guest]

I found, after rewatching the group date, JP making very similar types of comments as past F2s have made and really close to the kind that Chris L would make. Per this past week I would put Ben as f1 and JP as f2 based on his comments and some behavior as well

That is another reason why I am doubting that JP is F1.........waaaay too many comments made by JP that belongs to a F2 edit. That and I have always had a healthy sceptism when it comes to RS and his final 1 spoilers..........he has been wrong more than right.

Agreed - JP could be F1 but right now he's not getting a F1 edit. This season is proving to be difficult to determine a f1 from the edit, but I'm hoping once it's down to F4 and the majority of the drama is over that things start to fall into place - especially after Bentley is permanently gone.

Actually, I did the numbers and RS has been right 60% of the time - he was right about Jason dumping Melissa for Molly, right that Jake picked Vienna, right that Chris L was F2, wrong that Ali was single and wrong that Chantal was F1.

Good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Reality is that we haven't really gotten to see much of anything with any of the F4 because the Bentley crap has been center stage. But if I had to make a judgment today, just based on what I saw, I might say JP was getting the sexual F2 edit. Ben F is definitely a front runner. And at least as of now, I see friendship with Constantine and Ames. I think she respects Ames and maybe he is the type of guy her parents always told her she should want to date. But I just don't see the chemistry and I think the reason she keeps him around as long as she does is because he is a good guy and she wants to want him.

[nutty1]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

I so agree with the bolded. I have to wonder if she pissed them off somehow. They are not treating her well at all.

[Guest]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

I so agree with the bolded. I have to wonder if she pissed them off somehow. They are not treating her well at all.

I raised this thought over on another board - I really think it is as simple as the producers (MF and MH) don't like women. Think about it, how many times do we have to go through this crap and it doesn't matter which show, it is always the woman who looks bad. Compare what happened with Bentley with what happened with Rozlyn last season - what is the difference that would make them remove Rozlyn and not Bentley (if we are to believe everything he was saying in his ITM's)? Yet in both situations, it is the woman that is made to look like an idiot on national TV.

[anders]

There is always something wrong in Bach/ette land when they decide to throw the lead under the bus – we saw it with Jill and we saw it with Deanna. I was amazed Jake got a good edit considering the horrible one he got in Jill’s season. Most of the men came away pretty unscathed, but MF has a field day with the women. What’s that word – masoganist? How do you spell that?

[mnmhughes]

There is always something wrong in Bach/ette land when they decide to throw the lead under the bus – we saw it with Jill and we saw it with Deanna. I was amazed Jake got a good edit considering the horrible one he got in Jill’s season. Most of the men came away pretty unscathed, but MF has a field day with the women. What’s that word – masoganist? How do you spell that?

I think it's misogynist. :study:

[ironcat]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

I so agree with the bolded. I have to wonder if she pissed them off somehow. They are not treating her well at all.

I raised this thought over on another board - I really think it is as simple as the producers (MF and MH) don't like women. Think about it, how many times do we have to go through this crap and it doesn't matter which show, it is always the woman who looks bad. Compare what happened with Bentley with what happened with Rozlyn last season - what is the difference that would make them remove Rozlyn and not Bentley (if we are to believe everything he was saying in his ITM's)? Yet in both situations, it is the woman that is made to look like an idiot on national TV.

While I certainly won't argue that the producers of this show don't respect women, I think that the edit they come up with for the lead is determined at least in part by events on the ground each season. This season, Bentley, who regardless of how much worse the editing made him look, must have come in with an agenda to use his considerable charm to "woo" Ashley just for "kicks", just gave them too much great material to work with, and the "villain Bentley" was born, in essence relegating Ashley to a supporting role in her own season. For Ashley to have sniffed out Bentley's BS from the getgo would have made for a far less interesting (in their opinion) and talked about story. So they let Ashley fall for the guy, which I'm sure she did, although I'm also sure that by now, she realizes it wasn't ever even close to love (if she even actually thought that at the time), but the infatuation that develops when you put an emotionally inexperienced and insecure woman, a good and motivated con artist, and the Bachelor "mindf**k" together for a week.

In contrast, Ali got a great edit; kicked Justin to the curb "for all women", sent Chris home early to spare him, but even so, they let her look like a loon, hysterical over Frank, because it made too good TV to not use. Jake, I believe, got a good edit because his F1 got such a bad one that it packed a greater punch to question why this "nice guy" was picking the "bad girl". Had he picked Tenley, I bet we would have seen a worse (and more accurate) edit.

[rc49ers]

As was stated above episode #6 needs to get here and disappear fast and get on with the show .

[nd4reality]

I am actually just in the Ashley camp. I did not care for Ashley during Brad's season but have come to enjoy and respect her this time around. A lot of people are down on her because of her constant Bentley obsession but they forget that at this point Ashley knows nothing about the bad part of Bentley. She is insecure and sensitive and Bentley played her big time. He was a master of manipulation. He said all the right things and made all the right moves at exactly her most vulnerable moments. Of course the girl is gaga over him! Looking back I am sure she is mortified and madder than a wet hen.

If I had to pick one guy in the lead for her heart at this time I would pick JP. I have looked at all the editing but the single most telling thing that stands out for me is the way she says "JP will you accept this rose?" She baby talk/sings it. Reminds me of how Allie spoke to Roberto and Trista spoke to Ryan.

My beef with Ashley is that she was warned by Michelle and if you believe CH she was also warned by him – I do wonder if all the Bentley stuff on Ashley’s part is completely fake – how do you fall for one person inside of 8 days and not question everything that you’ve already been warned about?? That makes zero sense to me – any intelligent person would’ve had some kind of guard up = it’s great to know who you think your F1 is going to be – it’s a complete other to zero in on that person to the exclusion of all other in an environment that she fully knows is fake and manipulated to the nth degree. So, in my mind, Ashley is a far better actress than Ali ever was.

To a certain extent, I think TPTB have blindsided Ashley. I think she truly fell for Bentley from day one, but she is being editted to be way over the top. Granted, some of what we see may be genuine and some acting, but the editors are piecing her reactions together to exaggerate the situation. I am still of the opinion that she's feeling humiliated, not just by Bentley, but by the show.Ashley needs epi 6 to come and go more than anything. Until then, she's being dragged thru the mud over and over. How many times do you think the general viewer has said "OMG you're kidding me" as she whines about missing Bentley? IMO the show hasn't done itself nor Ashley any favors this season.

I so agree with the bolded. I have to wonder if she pissed them off somehow. They are not treating her well at all.

I agree she is getting a horrible edit. As I said elsewhere, they could easily leave a lot on the cutting room floor and show just a little bit to justify bringing the DB back. But no, its like a broken record over and over again.
Sor sure - something is up.

[Sponsored content]