Couples Therapy - Season 5 - Premier Sept 10 2014 - General Discussion

mindless wrote:Well my dislike of Nikki and Juan Pablo certainly has nothing to do with anyone but them. I'm not even a fan of Sean and Cat, though I wish them all the best because they seem perfect for each other. I don't even know of any animosity between them and JPG. All I remember is some comments during ATFR and I never pay much attention to those.

I didn't want JPG as the bachelor, but after the first episode I was willing to give him a chance because he seemed nice and genuine. Then as the season went on, his actions and general attitude towards the women started to grate on me, not to mention how uninteresting/-intelligent he seemed as a person. I can't think of a less attractive combination of traits than manipulative and unintelligent. I was rooting for all the women to dump him and it's got nothing to do with the edit. They can't edit in personality traits that aren't there. They may leave some unflattering ones out, but even that was a bit difficult with JPG, without having to leave out major events like the talk with Clare.

I didn't care about Nikki one way or another for most of the season, just hated looking at her fried hair and dark roots. I definitely noticed her negativity and bitchy moments and those didn't exactly endear her to me. Biggest problem, however, was her relationship with JPG. It was just blah and she seemed to turn into this timid little girl around him. Their conversations seemed to mostly consist of her giving a bashful monologue without even looking at him while he played with her face/hair like he was barely listening. There was just this strange father/daughter vibe, which made me uncomfortable. I can't root for relationships that don't seem equal to me. Now we see on CT that she still doesn't know how to even talk to him or verbalize her needs. It just doesn't seem right between them. The most important thing in a relationship is that you can be yourself around your partner and if you still can't months later, then it doesn't bode well. Even Sharleen, who seems very rational, wrote in her last BiP recap, while talking about Marcus and Lacy, that she's "a recent believer of the old "when you know, you know" adage", obviously meaning that's how she feels about her new boyfriend. All I'm saying is that it's not supposed to be that hard.

stuckinsc wrote:

mindless wrote:Well my dislike of Nikki and Juan Pablo certainly has nothing to do with anyone but them. I'm not even a fan of Sean and Cat, though I wish them all the best because they seem perfect for each other. I don't even know of any animosity between them and JPG. All I remember is some comments during ATFR and I never pay much attention to those.

I didn't want JPG as the bachelor, but after the first episode I was willing to give him a chance because he seemed nice and genuine. Then as the season went on, his actions and general attitude towards the women started to grate on me, not to mention how uninteresting/-intelligent he seemed as a person. I can't think of a less attractive combination of traits than manipulative and unintelligent. I was rooting for all the women to dump him and it's got nothing to do with the edit. They can't edit in personality traits that aren't there. They may leave some unflattering ones out, but even that was a bit difficult with JPG, without having to leave out major events like the talk with Clare.

I didn't care about Nikki one way or another for most of the season, just hated looking at her fried hair and dark roots. I definitely noticed her negativity and bitchy moments and those didn't exactly endear her to me. Biggest problem, however, was her relationship with JPG. It was just blah and she seemed to turn into this timid little girl around him. Their conversations seemed to mostly consist of her giving a bashful monologue without even looking at him while he played with her face/hair like he was barely listening. There was just this strange father/daughter vibe, which made me uncomfortable. I can't root for relationships that don't seem equal to me. Now we see on CT that she still doesn't know how to even talk to him or verbalize her needs. It just doesn't seem right between them. The most important thing in a relationship is that you can be yourself around your partner and if you still can't months later, then it doesn't bode well. Even Sharleen, who seems very rational, wrote in her last BiP recap, while talking about Marcus and Lacy, that she's "a recent believer of the old "when you know, you know" adage", obviously meaning that's how she feels about her new boyfriend. All I'm saying is that it's not supposed to be that hard.

Mindless, I respect your opinion.  I know I just don't see the same JPG everyone else sees.  I admit, I have been wrong before.  I was a huge fan of Jef Holms.  I really thought he wanted to help other people.  So I hope I am right and others are wrong, but who knows.

I do respect JPG as a dad and Nikki as a nurse.  For the rest, I am going to wait and see until the season ends.  But I like that we can discuss this with respectful opinions and hear what the others have to say.

Lucas15 wrote:

JBF wrote:

mindless wrote:Juan Pablo was acting quite attentive towards Nikki, but he still seems to mostly light up when she's pissed. He was full of glee when the cameras caught her bad behaviour and made sure to point out every unkind gesture towards him as they were in a competition of who is more at fault.

You saw that too, huh? "Did you get that? Did you get that on camera?" Hee hee.

There were so many red flags raised to me this last episode but of all of them, but this one is the "red-est" flag; when a relationship starts playing the "blame game" it's become pretty unpleasant for both parties in it and that "habit" is a hard one to break out of. I've been there and done that.

I know that Nikki signed up for CT and knew (or should have known) that there would be cameras on her all the time and if she wasn't up for that she shouldn't have gone on CT but I suspect that the idea to do CT in the first place was JPG not Nikki and it was motivated more by $$$ than fixing their relationship problems and Nikki has a certain level of resentment towards JPG for throwing her back into a very public relationship where she can't even talk to JPG because she doesn't want cameras on her all the time. So JPG is blaming her for bad behavior and she's blaming JPG for putting her in a spotlight she really didn't want to be in and she's behaving badly because she's p***ed at JPG for putting her in that spot in the first place. And instead of talking directly to JPG (which is what Dr. Jenn told her to do) she talkes to all the other girls in the "house" as if she's trying to recruit allies in her "fight" against JPG. It's a vicious circle.

And Dr. Jenn, IMO, isn't helping things at all - if anything she's hurting them. She took on Nikki over rude behaviour and bad language towards the camera crew and told Nikki that this was part of the whole process. But she seems to be aligning herself with JPG over this issue so Nikki has JPG and Dr. Jenn allied against her. And how in the world did a camera crew become part of a therapeutic process anyway? A camera crew is part of a Reality TV show not therapy so I wonder just what "process" Dr. Jenn is thinking more about - therapy or TV production? I'm not sure that this show can do justice to therapy and reality TV at the same time in all cases and this may be one of those cases. Another red flag to me.

Nikki said she had barely talked to JPG in several days because she knew if she did there would be cameras all over the place and she wanted to talk in private, not in front of cameras. But JPG loves being in front of cameras and he's actually quite good at it. If this "therapy" were being conducted in private instead of on a Reality TV show IMO they would have talked already because Nikki wouldn't be holding back because cameras. JBF mentioned he looked like a news caster and that should come as no surprise - he actually had a short stint working as a television presenter for a Miami-based (Spanish language) sports show, Mega TV's Mega News. IMO both are genuine here - JPG genuinely likes the spotlight and isn't bothered by SM negativity, and Nikki genuinely doesn't like it and is bothered by it. Something's got to give here and so far I haven't seen any steps towards a compromise - or even an indication a compromise is possible. Another red flag.

Sprite wrote:

umngirl wrote:

stuckinsc wrote:I am just curious, if most people who dislike JPG and Nikki so much did his whole season or if their failure to play nice to Sean/Cat made most people angry?

I see a lot of Andi fans who dislike Nikki, but much like Arie and Jef back in the day, Andi and Nikki are friends who are still friends.  I know I question my opinion of Andi because of how much I like Nikki, do any of those who like Andi do the same with Nikki?  I am not trying to a smart alec, rather I am truly curious.

I think only time will tell with this couple.  It has definitely been a rough few days in CT for them, again until the end of the show, who knows what will play out.  I only know that Nikki and JPG have vacationed together and that Evil seems to be okay with Nikki and JPG, so I am thinking they were too bad.  But hard to tell until it is over with.

Never liked either one of them. The fact JuanPa especially took jabs at Sean just solidified my opinion.

Nothing they do on this show could make me like them, apart from personality replacements which isn't happening.

I just want to make one thing clear here, and it's not addressed at you stuck,  I'm not a "hater". I don't like them but I can't hate people I don't know.

I disliked the whole season and it had nothing to do with SeanCat. I didn't want JPab as the Bachelor and said it would not turn out well, but even I could not imagine how right I would turn out to be. I didn't dislike Nikki as much, but I found her rather negative and she didn't really do anything for me. The fact that she just stood there during the AFTR and took how JPab behaved, didn't endear her further. The fact that she is friends with Andi, well...

luvlady345 wrote:Why bring Andi's fans into people not liking JP or Nikki or them as a couple?  My liking someone has absolutely nothing of who I like or dislike.... I don't like Sean or Cat or them as a couple but that has no bearings on my feelings for JP/Nikki.....  I just don't think Andi's fans has to be brought up in this discussion....

Getting back to Nikki, I really didn't care one way or the other about her during the bachelorette what made me root for them as a couple was because of the hate or the dislike they received after their season, I root for the underdog, but the more I see this edit version of their relationship it makes me change my views I am starting to see that JP is a major manipulator and Nikki is like a silly little girl in love.....  JP has been around Nikki and knew how she would react to the camera, he is no fool I have a feeling this is a setup from him to finally dump Nikki and he will not receive the backlash, people will applaud him from getting rid of the immature ice queen.....  And the couple fans who are latching on to Dick, he is a fame whore who will latch on to anyone who is the most popular or who will let him ride with them so he can stay relevant... Just let JP/Nikki refuse to go on Dick at night, he will broadcast their personal business all over the internet for all to see and read..... Dick is NO ONE friend, just to be warned... LOL, the rumor is that the woman Dick is with on couple's therapy is a fake ex GF....

stuckinsc wrote:

The Andi and Kelly T post show are not nice women.  They have shown mean girl behavior and disrespect for a lot of things and both seem like over privileged rich girls who get away with a lot because of their looks.  Unfortunately, in both cases, I think the pretty on the outside doesn't go too deep.  If I see them be better women in the future, I will be happy, but the actions I have seen from them especially when together post show don't support that.

Many see JPG as evil.  I see a gregarious man who is fun to be around and a lot less aware of other people's feelings and that he just doesn't seem to care too often about what others think or feel.  I see how this rubs people the wrong way, though to me it is less malicious and more self centered.  Again, him being a loving father gets him points in my book and I felt he "used" Camila as a lead much less than Jason or Emily "used" their children as leads.

I guess for me, I wonder how JPG will react to a woman standing up to him.  I thought he respected Sharleen a lot and to me she never backed down from being who she was.  I think we all expect that JPG would not like a strong or assertive woman and I don't know that is true.  He reminds me of most Latin men I know who were very happy with their strong and assertive women, but still presented themselves as men.

I think JPG and Nikki have a lot to work out.  They have both said therapy helped them, so I am waiting to see.

Sprite wrote:Does anyone know how many episodes this show has? For me, JPab and Nikki still seem pretty far apart on how to deal with their issues. I know they have said that this show has helped them, but I am sceptical so far. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm not exactly holding my breath.

mindless wrote:Well my dislike of Nikki and Juan Pablo certainly has nothing to do with anyone but them. I'm not even a fan of Sean and Cat, though I wish them all the best because they seem perfect for each other. I don't even know of any animosity between them and JPG. All I remember is some comments during ATFR and I never pay much attention to those.

I didn't want JPG as the bachelor, but after the first episode I was willing to give him a chance because he seemed nice and genuine. Then as the season went on, his actions and general attitude towards the women started to grate on me, not to mention how uninteresting/-intelligent he seemed as a person. I can't think of a less attractive combination of traits than manipulative and unintelligent. I was rooting for all the women to dump him and it's got nothing to do with the edit. They can't edit in personality traits that aren't there. They may leave some unflattering ones out, but even that was a bit difficult with JPG, without having to leave out major events like the talk with Clare.

I didn't care about Nikki one way or another for most of the season, just hated looking at her fried hair and dark roots. I definitely noticed her negativity and bitchy moments and those didn't exactly endear her to me. Biggest problem, however, was her relationship with JPG. It was just blah and she seemed to turn into this timid little girl around him. Their conversations seemed to mostly consist of her giving a bashful monologue without even looking at him while he played with her face/hair like he was barely listening. There was just this strange father/daughter vibe, which made me uncomfortable. I can't root for relationships that don't seem equal to me. Now we see on CT that she still doesn't know how to even talk to him or verbalize her needs. It just doesn't seem right between them. The most important thing in a relationship is that you can be yourself around your partner and if you still can't months later, then it doesn't bode well. Even Sharleen, who seems very rational, wrote in her last BiP recap, while talking about Marcus and Lacy, that she's "a recent believer of the old "when you know, you know" adage", obviously meaning that's how she feels about her new boyfriend. All I'm saying is that it's not supposed to be that hard.

Sprite wrote:

Sprite wrote:

umngirl wrote:

Never liked either one of them. The fact JuanPa especially took jabs at Sean just solidified my opinion.

Nothing they do on this show could make me like them, apart from personality replacements which isn't happening.

I just want to make one thing clear here, and it's not addressed at you stuck,  I'm not a "hater". I don't like them but I can't hate people I don't know.

I disliked the whole season and it had nothing to do with SeanCat. I didn't want JPab as the Bachelor and said it would not turn out well, but even I could not imagine how right I would turn out to be. I didn't dislike Nikki as much, but I found her rather negative and she didn't really do anything for me. The fact that she just stood there during the AFTR and took how JPab behaved, didn't endear her further. The fact that she is friends with Andi, well...

luvlady345 wrote:Why bring Andi's fans into people not liking JP or Nikki or them as a couple?  My liking someone has absolutely nothing of who I like or dislike.... I don't like Sean or Cat or them as a couple but that has no bearings on my feelings for JP/Nikki.....  I just don't think Andi's fans has to be brought up in this discussion....

Getting back to Nikki, I really didn't care one way or the other about her during the bachelorette what made me root for them as a couple was because of the hate or the dislike they received after their season, I root for the underdog, but the more I see this edit version of their relationship it makes me change my views I am starting to see that JP is a major manipulator and Nikki is like a silly little girl in love.....  JP has been around Nikki and knew how she would react to the camera, he is no fool I have a feeling this is a setup from him to finally dump Nikki and he will not receive the backlash, people will applaud him from getting rid of the immature ice queen.....  And the couple fans who are latching on to Dick, he is a fame whore who will latch on to anyone who is the most popular or who will let him ride with them so he can stay relevant... Just let JP/Nikki refuse to go on Dick at night, he will broadcast their personal business all over the internet for all to see and read..... Dick is NO ONE friend, just to be warned... LOL, the rumor is that the woman Dick is with on couple's therapy is a fake ex GF....

I brought the original quote to answer your question. Andi was brought in because she was part of the original question.

stuckinsc wrote:

The Andi and Kelly T post show are not nice women.  They have shown mean girl behavior and disrespect for a lot of things and both seem like over privileged rich girls who get away with a lot because of their looks.  Unfortunately, in both cases, I think the pretty on the outside doesn't go too deep.  If I see them be better women in the future, I will be happy, but the actions I have seen from them especially when together post show don't support that.

Many see JPG as evil.  I see a gregarious man who is fun to be around and a lot less aware of other people's feelings and that he just doesn't seem to care too often about what others think or feel.  I see how this rubs people the wrong way, though to me it is less malicious and more self centered.  Again, him being a loving father gets him points in my book and I felt he "used" Camila as a lead much less than Jason or Emily "used" their children as leads.

I guess for me, I wonder how JPG will react to a woman standing up to him.  I thought he respected Sharleen a lot and to me she never backed down from being who she was.  I think we all expect that JPG would not like a strong or assertive woman and I don't know that is true.  He reminds me of most Latin men I know who were very happy with their strong and assertive women, but still presented themselves as men.

I think JPG and Nikki have a lot to work out.  They have both said therapy helped them, so I am waiting to see.

Stuckinsc I shortened your quote because these were the parts I wanted to address. The fact that Nikki is friends with Kelly and Andi, gives me doubts about her since who your friends are often speaks about who you are as well and you pointed out some of the same things that I have questioned.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I don't see Nikki as being particularly strong with respect to her relationship with JPab. While she may be an accomplished woman when it comes to her career, I haven't really seen her behave in a strong manner in her relationship with him. She appears rather passive and seems to have issues expressing her needs and desires. Contrast this with how Sharleen was on the Bachelor. She expressed herself very well and JPab responded with respect and admiration...because she expected it. Nikki...not so much...and JPab reacts in kind.

I agree that JPab is kind of clueless with how he appears and even treats people...unless he admires them and they stand up for themselves and expect respect. I think what set Sharleen and Renee apart in his eyes, was a maturity that they exhibited and he treated them as equals. I don't get the impression that he really thinks of Nikki as an equal. Many have already commented that he appears to treat her like a child at times.

Does anyone know how many episodes this show has? For me, JPab and Nikki still seem pretty far apart on how to deal with their issues. I know they have said that this show has helped them, but I am sceptical so far. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm not exactly holding my breath.

stuckinsc wrote:

Sprite wrote:

Sprite wrote:

I disliked the whole season and it had nothing to do with SeanCat. I didn't want JPab as the Bachelor and said it would not turn out well, but even I could not imagine how right I would turn out to be. I didn't dislike Nikki as much, but I found her rather negative and she didn't really do anything for me. The fact that she just stood there during the AFTR and took how JPab behaved, didn't endear her further. The fact that she is friends with Andi, well...

luvlady345 wrote:Why bring Andi's fans into people not liking JP or Nikki or them as a couple?  My liking someone has absolutely nothing of who I like or dislike.... I don't like Sean or Cat or them as a couple but that has no bearings on my feelings for JP/Nikki.....  I just don't think Andi's fans has to be brought up in this discussion....

Getting back to Nikki, I really didn't care one way or the other about her during the bachelorette what made me root for them as a couple was because of the hate or the dislike they received after their season, I root for the underdog, but the more I see this edit version of their relationship it makes me change my views I am starting to see that JP is a major manipulator and Nikki is like a silly little girl in love.....  JP has been around Nikki and knew how she would react to the camera, he is no fool I have a feeling this is a setup from him to finally dump Nikki and he will not receive the backlash, people will applaud him from getting rid of the immature ice queen.....  And the couple fans who are latching on to Dick, he is a fame whore who will latch on to anyone who is the most popular or who will let him ride with them so he can stay relevant... Just let JP/Nikki refuse to go on Dick at night, he will broadcast their personal business all over the internet for all to see and read..... Dick is NO ONE friend, just to be warned... LOL, the rumor is that the woman Dick is with on couple's therapy is a fake ex GF....

I brought the original quote to answer your question. Andi was brought in because she was part of the original question.

stuckinsc wrote:

The Andi and Kelly T post show are not nice women.  They have shown mean girl behavior and disrespect for a lot of things and both seem like over privileged rich girls who get away with a lot because of their looks.  Unfortunately, in both cases, I think the pretty on the outside doesn't go too deep.  If I see them be better women in the future, I will be happy, but the actions I have seen from them especially when together post show don't support that.

Many see JPG as evil.  I see a gregarious man who is fun to be around and a lot less aware of other people's feelings and that he just doesn't seem to care too often about what others think or feel.  I see how this rubs people the wrong way, though to me it is less malicious and more self centered.  Again, him being a loving father gets him points in my book and I felt he "used" Camila as a lead much less than Jason or Emily "used" their children as leads.

I guess for me, I wonder how JPG will react to a woman standing up to him.  I thought he respected Sharleen a lot and to me she never backed down from being who she was.  I think we all expect that JPG would not like a strong or assertive woman and I don't know that is true.  He reminds me of most Latin men I know who were very happy with their strong and assertive women, but still presented themselves as men.

I think JPG and Nikki have a lot to work out.  They have both said therapy helped them, so I am waiting to see.

Stuckinsc I shortened your quote because these were the parts I wanted to address. The fact that Nikki is friends with Kelly and Andi, gives me doubts about her since who your friends are often speaks about who you are as well and you pointed out some of the same things that I have questioned.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I don't see Nikki as being particularly strong with respect to her relationship with JPab. While she may be an accomplished woman when it comes to her career, I haven't really seen her behave in a strong manner in her relationship with him. She appears rather passive and seems to have issues expressing her needs and desires. Contrast this with how Sharleen was on the Bachelor. She expressed herself very well and JPab responded with respect and admiration...because she expected it. Nikki...not so much...and JPab reacts in kind.

I agree that JPab is kind of clueless with how he appears and even treats people...unless he admires them and they stand up for themselves and expect respect. I think what set Sharleen and Renee apart in his eyes, was a maturity that they exhibited and he treated them as equals. I don't get the impression that he really thinks of Nikki as an equal. Many have already commented that he appears to treat her like a child at times.

Does anyone know how many episodes this show has? For me, JPab and Nikki still seem pretty far apart on how to deal with their issues. I know they have said that this show has helped them, but I am sceptical so far. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I'm not exactly holding my breath.

I agree with you Sprite.  I saw Nikki as a strong young woman and do admire her career and her actions, she happily gives her time to children's health and has done quite a bit post show to support her young fans.

But, on this show, I have seen a Nikki that is insecure in her relationship and that makes me hesitate.  I didn't understand why they went on this show at first and was annoyed with them being on tv again, as I really admired them for not giving into the Fleiss machine.  I see now that some kind of counseling to help these two be real together is necessary.  I think JPG is who he is.  I don't think he has a hide his true nature bone in his body, so what you see is what you get.  Like it or not.  Nikki seems to not be herself around JPG, which is sad, because I do think a really strong, confident woman is what JPG needs.  

I hope that this process helps Nikki to realize that no relationship where you aren't comfortable is worth it.  I still like them together, but if she can't feel comfortable being herself around him and telling him what she wants and needs then it won't work.

I am waiting to see what the next 7 episodes show us.

Many have said that Dr. Jenn aligned herself with JPG.  I was surprised by her alone talks with JPG and Nikki, I also thought she sounded a little pro-JPG in his talk.  One thing I do agree with that she did was to confront Nikki on not doing what she agreed to do.  The not talking to JPG is not going to help, she must learn to overcome her fear of telling him how she feels and that unfortunately for her because she agreed to this show, it will have to happen on camera.  But this is where they are and she did agree, and again, while I do understand her lack of comfort, she once again did chose to go on reality tv, it was her choice so she needs to learn to open up better in front of those cameras.

I truly hope this works out between them, as I see happy and joyful moments between them and I do hope that the good things I like about both of them are more than the little things I don't.

As for the Nikki and Andi friendship, I did bring it up and to me it is valid.  It isn't about attacking one or the other.  As Sprite pointed out, they are friends and our choice of friends does speak to who we are.  The Nikki and Andi friendship makes me pause, since I the similarities I see are not the things I like about Nikki.  But I did want to get the opinion of Andi fans.

I can and have changed my mind of things.  I did it with Des in respect to her and Chris, so for me asking questions about contestants that I don't like is not to bash, it is that maybe I can learn something and my opinion will change.  This is a discussion board so I like to have these discussions.  As long as it is done with respect and not just a bunch of petulant posts, then why is it a problem?

stuckinsc wrote:Mindless, I respect your opinion.  I know I just don't see the same JPG everyone else sees.  I admit, I have been wrong before.  I was a huge fan of Jef Holms.  I really thought he wanted to help other people.  So I hope I am right and others are wrong, but who knows.

I do respect JPG as a dad and Nikki as a nurse.  For the rest, I am going to wait and see until the season ends.  But I like that we can discuss this with respectful opinions and hear what the others have to say.