Bachelorette 13 - Rachel Lindsay - Episode 10 FRC - Aug 7 - *Sleuthing Spoilers* #3

I don't understand where this Rachel-is-bitter-and-angry-and-needs-to-move-on statement is coming from when Rachel herself said on the live show that she' not angry but frustrated. There is a difference. So was she lying when she said that? Idk, I choose to believe her.
Watching her interviews today, I never sensed an angry Rach but a perceptive Rach answering questions about something that just happened less than 24 hours ago as far as her interaction with Peter. Mind you, she hadn't watched the episode and had time to process what was going on. She said what she had to say to him and that was it. Done.
I think once the Peter questions die down, hopefully never to be talked about again, he won't even be a thought in her head. A distant memory.
IMHO

Acrunch wrote:^ Revisionist! She's tap dancing as fast as she can desperately trying to downplay her feelings for Peter for the sake of Bryan and their relationship.  I remember Andi being accused of same for Josh's sake and JMO the meltdown Rachel had during the breakup scene was 1000% worse than Andi's demeanor when she ended it with Nick.

ITA if she knew Peter wasn't the one Bryan was, what was that heartbreaking good bye all about? If it's not him say it's not working, we've come to an impasse, turn around and walk away. Let Peter go before Eric, she knew where Peter was with a proposal. If there was no romance, no physical emotional attraction why keep Peter? She was handing out the roses and had the control of who stays/who goes she could have let him go .... weeks ago. She is laughable. Just be honest, she was conflicted. Don't say it was Bryan in Geneva, I just don't buy it. She is a revisionist and it doesn't look good on her.JMO.

She's really lucky Peter didn't propose only to be let go (since she knew it was Bryan for weeks). Just imagine the reception she'd be receiving. 

Billysmom wrote:

FashionLover wrote:If peter was manipulating rachel then wasn't rachel playing the manipulative game right back. She has her mind made up but she's still pushing for a proposal she's gonna turn down, like what? The post by @Amethyst makes sense to me. If this was about control for her, then she was also being manipulative. If rachel doesn't want Peter to be bachelor, then my advice would be for her to talk about him as least as possible. The more he's discussed the more he is in the public eye.

side questions, do runner ups always give good morning show interviews?

Agree about the manipulation. And for the life of me I don't understand why a lead can get so angry with someone who is clearly trying to "get there" and stay open to the process, but is struggling. It's also likely that to whatever extent Rachel was able to let her walls down at the end with nick, it was because he expressed hopes that she could - but not to the point of badgering her, as I believe she did to peter. (My goodness, that statement at the f3 rc was unprecedented and very intimidating, IMO.) Struggle/ambivalence is not synonymous with manipulation, at least not in my dictionary. I was upset about Jilly getting so frustrated with Reid for the same reason. Turned out she just wanted ed anyway, but boy she really was on his case, and that finale broke so many hearts. Jmo.

I am trying to be happy for Rachel but I've come to the conclusion I just don't like her. She has many gifts - charisma, intellect, beauty - but I can't relate to her brand of strength and need to control/win.

Billysmom,

You articulated some of what I am feeling as I try to deal with the discomfort and ambivalence I feel after watching the end of this season last night. I also liked amethyst's post, too. I am trying to read as many posts as possible. I want opinions from all sides. Those that are for Rachel and those that are not. Those that are for Peter and those that are not. I am open to any and all theories and ideas about what we saw play out.

I highlighted in bold the key sentence for me in your post. I think you make an excellent point! Struggle/ambivalence is not the same as manipulation. I have never thought that Peter was the devil in disguise or manipulative, a con artist, a player, controlling or whatever negative adjectives have been used to describe him. But I did see someone who was clearly struggling throughout this process. We can't know what it feels like to be in their shoes. We can only imagine and speculate. Once you are in this unreal bubble, things can get intense and maybe you can't deal with it or handle it that well.

I also think that both of you make good points about Rachel also manipulating and leading on the other guys. The F2 is the one who gets lead on to the end. I am also concerned about this idea that the guys all knew it was Bryan at some point and also about the matching watches. What was Peter supposed to think? Maybe he had doubts because he felt that Bryan was the front runner and he would end up getting rejected. I never thought of Rachel as controlling, but now I am beginning to wonder.

I think that Peter said some harsh things to Rachel in the moment at the monastery. But they were having a confrontation and at an impasse. I was thinking to myself, I sure wouldn't want my conversations in that moment being played for millions of tv viewers. People are rarely at their best in those moments. Peter did apologize, but to those who don't like him whatever he does won't be good enough. He didn't have to say anything. I saw a man who was stressed and emotional at the ATFR show. He did care about Rachel. As for his reasons why he couldn't get there, I don't know if I know for sure why. I do think he has his issues that need to be worked out. But I still don't think he's a bad person or some kind of evil or vindictive person.

The one thing I can say that came through with great clarity to me last night, is that in the end Rachel and Peter were not meant to be together! They were not right for each other. There were feelings for each other. But not enough to overcome their differences. Rachel chose the right person for her. I also think she would do herself a favor by just ignoring sm and concentrating on her new life with Bryan. It's a waste of time and energy to respond to much of what is said there. She should just enjoy this time in her life. in a few days people will have moved on to something else on sm.

LynnTa wrote:I'm wondering about the JK interview too. It is strange .

iread somewhere it was t prevent spoiler and filmed with no live audience. Kimmel is filmed at 5 pst amd rachel was live at atfr. Sorry dont remember where i read it so JMO

Correct! TPTB wanted her to live watch the show and it conflicted with Kimmel taping at the same time. She and Bryan had to film a quick segment without the live audience before the show started.

Did anybody mention Bryan slipping up and saying Rachel told him during FSD that she loved him. Cute little interaction between them i think in ET interview. I wish them the best he definitely not default pick IMO

The show really tried to make the turnaround from Rachel and Peter's breakup to proposal day seem as quick (which it was) and chaotic and unrealistic as possible. So much time was devoted to hammering Rachel and Peter's dynamic and the tug of wars they had about their feelings, values, and expectations on their final dates, in their breakup scene, and again on the couch with Chris Harrison, and so little in comparison was shown of Rachel and Bryan’s conversations, their headspaces and feelings on their dates and the FRC day. The new format of the AFTR led itself to like 45 min of steady footage of just Rachel and Peter from their LCD to the end of their sit-down with Harrison, and it seemed like just more and more dark clouds were gathering and hanging low in the studio. End scene, begin scene, it’s proposal day! And even there the show piles on the drama.

I said it last night but the ITM clip from an early preview of Rachel articulating how the trials of this journey and her soul searching has led her to this moment and to the one and that she prays he will be proposing to her were all slashed in the episode in favor for "I don't know if I'm ready for this" minutes before the proposal. The show was really not showing Rachel’s true state of heart on that day IMO. She has strongly known in her conscience for some time that Bryan is her one, she has finally realized she can't fall back into her old relationship habits, she shuts down Peter from trying to worm his way back which we only find out later, she gives the reins to love, and is excited about getting engaged and beginning the rest of her life with Bryan. Instead, the show rushes that whole day (do we see any more than 30 sec of Bryan with Neil Lane?), cherry picks and plays only the voice overs that suggest Rachel has doubts and lacks conviction, and makes sure as a result the viewers feel a disconnect with the happy couple in the end. IMO TPTB love reactions of outrage and they love the conversations that carry on long after the show. All JMO.

sbolduc wrote:So I haven't been following this season that closely as I wasn't really invested in either Peter or Bryan from the get-go. More of an Eric/Alex fan myself....but anyways... I did watch last night...and I have to say I am more on Peter's side vs. Rachel's. Bryan seems fine enough, not my cup of tea but doesn't seem like a bad choice or anything. I actually think long term she made the right choice for what she needs/wants.

BUT based on what we saw last night either:

a) Rachel was actually torn between Peter and Bryan - and she wanted a proposal/ultimate commitment (as she spoke about in the edited episode) and that was one of the deciding factors to choose Bryan
b) We are to believe her when she says she wasn't actually torn and knew it was Bryan from Geneva

OK lets say I believe that she knew it was Bryan. Why bring Peter to the end...because producers made her OK. But say producers made her why push him on the engagement thing. Why have a 3 hour conversation/argument where you are both crying. Why push and push to the point where you are making him and others feel that the reason you don't pick him is because of HIM and HIS commitment issues. Why make out with him as you say goodbye to him, why tell him "I love you too". So if she knew it was Bryan all along, then to me she was being manipulative towards Peter, putting the reason on him vs. the real reason = she was in love with Bryan.

I personally think she was more torn then she is indicating and am feeling like she really wanted Peter in the end. I could be wrong, it is a highly edited show, but she is acting like a woman scorned. She is focusing her energy on a guy she supposedly dumped for the "man of her dreams".

Even if Peter has been SM shading her and Bryan all season - its in a way Karma for last season. Her and Vanessa didn't get along - she, Rachel, made that perfectly clear in things she said on IG/Snapchat multiple times about how much she didn't like Vanessa. Her squad on many occasions made fun of Nick, Vanessa and Nick's family - overtly on SM. Rachel/her squad were the beloved on Nick's season. She dissed the F1 all the way to the end. Nick was always gracious towards Rachel, Vanessa whenever asked about her always agreed they weren't close but she thought she would be a fantastic bachelorette. I personally think that Rachel is getting a taste of her own medicine.

Instead of acting like a woman scorned she should suck it up and take the high road. She got the guy she apparently always wanted - embrace and celebrate that, change the narrative. Instead she is acting petty and self righteous IMO.

twinkle73 wrote:Did anybody mention Bryan slipping up and saying Rachel told him during FSD that she loved him.  Cute little interaction between them i think in ET interview. I wish them the best he definitely not default pick IMO

Didn't see it, hear it, or buy it. But what a well timed slip up for him to save face plus get his esposa off the hook.

Billysmom wrote:

sbolduc wrote:So I haven't been following this season that closely as I wasn't really invested in either Peter or Bryan from the get-go. More of an Eric/Alex fan myself....but anyways... I did watch last night...and I have to say I am more on Peter's side vs. Rachel's. Bryan seems fine enough, not my cup of tea but doesn't seem like a bad choice or anything. I actually think long term she made the right choice for what she needs/wants.

BUT based on what we saw last night either:

a) Rachel was actually torn between Peter and Bryan - and she wanted a proposal/ultimate commitment (as she spoke about in the edited episode) and that was one of the deciding factors to choose Bryan
b) We are to believe her when she says she wasn't actually torn and knew it was Bryan from Geneva

OK lets say I believe that she knew it was Bryan. Why bring Peter to the end...because producers made her OK. But say producers made her why push him on the engagement thing. Why have a 3 hour conversation/argument where you are both crying. Why push and push to the point where you are making him and others feel that the reason you don't pick him is because of HIM and HIS commitment issues. Why make out with him as you say goodbye to him, why tell him "I love you too". So if she knew it was Bryan all along, then to me she was being manipulative towards Peter, putting the reason on him vs. the real reason = she was in love with Bryan.

I personally think she was more torn then she is indicating and am feeling like she really wanted Peter in the end. I could be wrong, it is a highly edited show, but she is acting like a woman scorned. She is focusing her energy on a guy she supposedly dumped for the "man of her dreams".

Even if Peter has been SM shading her and Bryan all season - its in a way Karma for last season. Her and Vanessa didn't get along - she, Rachel, made that perfectly clear in things she said on IG/Snapchat multiple times about how much she didn't like Vanessa. Her squad on many occasions made fun of Nick, Vanessa and Nick's family - overtly on SM. Rachel/her squad were the beloved on Nick's season. She dissed the F1 all the way to the end. Nick was always gracious towards Rachel, Vanessa whenever asked about her always agreed they weren't close but she thought she would be a fantastic bachelorette. I personally think that Rachel is getting a taste of her own medicine.

Instead of acting like a woman scorned she should suck it up and take the high road. She got the guy she apparently always wanted - embrace and celebrate that, change the narrative. Instead she is acting petty and self righteous IMO.

I'm going to say this as someone who likes Rachel IMO Rachel has a lot of ego. I think she was going to choose Bryan, however her issue with Peter was all ego. I think the two of them together would have been a complete disaster he's manipulative and she has way to much ego and pride.

Why did Rachel push Peter about the proposal? I think she was angry with Peter. She has referred to their Geneva conversation where Peter said if he couldn't get there he would leave, but he stayed. Peter repeated the behaviors of her past boyfriend and he would give her enough to think maybe he thought she was special and then he would make her feel bad again. Push and pull, it is a Peter specialty.

So when she went to end it, maybe she could have been sweet and nice and just said she loved someone else more, but as usual Peter and she got caught in the toxic push and pull. I blame them both, because almost no relationship fails due to one person. This was a quick one but it was a relationship and that ugly breakup was the result of them establishing a toxic ten week way of dealing with each other that stayed until the end. Peter could have ended that talk as easily as Rachel could. Neither did because both brought out the bad in each other. I blame Peter, but readily admit that comes from my own personal experience with a man like him and how hard it is to walk away when they have tricked your brain into thinking if you lose them you will not make it. His nasty mediocre life comment was a big hint that more of that existed. If she wasn't with him then she was losing out. So I feel pretty comfortable in my belief that there was plenty of tape on the editing floor showing more of manipulative Peter.

I don't expect to change anyone's mind, but we are all colored in our opinions by our life experiences and unless TPTB release all the hours and hours of tape, we will never know what truly happened. I chose to move forward in my like of Bryan and Rachel and to happily not follow Peter. I respect others who chose the opposite. Neither of our opinions are wrong they just are different because we are all different.