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Bachelorette 14 - Becca Kufrin - Episode 4 - June 18th - *Sleuthing Spoilers*

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Post by violetstoo Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:04 pm

I enjoy reading everyone's opinions on both sides of this issue, but here is some interesting thoughts from a cultural perspective.  It is a long article, but the their cultural view of women is encouraging.  And if the ex-wife was opposite of this, it would make sense to leave early. We really don't know what goes on behind closed doors, and I have had friends who have had experiences like this, some are still married, some are not, it just depends on the person.
Here is the link:
http://studentdev.jour.unr.edu/nevadabasque/who-are-the-basques/

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Post by North Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:18 pm

Amethyst wrote:I am willing to admit that I am speculating based on some very sketchy information coming from his ex-wife's camp. However I think this is just the opening salvo and more information from better sources will be forthcoming. What I will say is that I am not willing to take just Garrett's side of things. There are two sides to this story, and I want to hear the other side.

What I think *has* been established (at least to me) by public Instagram likes is that Garrett is tone-deaf. Here is the Merriam-Webster definition of that meaning of "tone-deaf" -- "having or showing an obtuse insensitivity or lack of perception particularly in matters of public sentiment, opinion, or taste".
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tone-deaf

So it wouldn't come as a shock to me if that quality happens to pop up elsewhere in his life.

Absolutely! But a "friend of the family" going to a tabloid magazine isn't exactly the "other side" of the story. Unless the two people in the prior relationship sit down and equally discuss their relationship, ala ATFR, the viewer only ever gets a distorted view.

Personally, I'd rather NOT hear past relationship stories and more about the contestant -- his/her religious and political beliefs, social interests, financial background, family upbringing, parenting style, volunteer experience, etc... As a viewer, I'd have much rather heard Garrett and Becca talk politics than about his past relationship! How to date across party lines is pretty relevant right now, in fact, that concept should be Fleiss' next show! Forget "The Proposal."

While past relationships are important, I'd argue they aren't that important to the viewer who is focusing on the possibility of a connection with the lead and the contestant. So the lead and contestant should absolutely discuss it, I just don't need/want to see it. And I think it is wholly unfair to the other (non-contestant) party to have it aired and edited w/o their consent. IMO.

I still can't believe a female contestant described, in detail, her physical assault on her cheating significant other. And thought it was funny. Or, when a contestant disparaged the other parent of her children, or revealed a miscarriage, or detailed a super uncomfortable and deep-rooted issue with a parent. I get that the contestant signed-up for it but the other person did not.

All in IMO.


Last edited by North on Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)

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Post by SeekAny Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:55 pm

I think anytime contestants have to talk about past relationships, parent issues, miscarriages - anything personal involving others they are in a tough spot. The whole premise of the show is moving quickly and developing a relationship with the lead. In order to do that, you have to talk about these things.

I have no problem with Garrett’s retelling as long as from his perspective he was telling the truth. The ex wife has her own thoughts and versions but it doesn’t mean that garrett’s is incorrect to his experience. This is Garrett’s relationship and story, it’s important that Becca knows what’s in his head. These are things you need to discuss in a relationship and Becca needs to know.

I’ve come to like Garrett. Is he somewhat tone deaf? Yes, I agree with that to a degree. But I’ve moved past the likes with his apology. Everything else I’ve seen is a guy who has an outward zest for life and a decent guy. I believe him to be genuine and honest to god falling in love with Becca. I don’t think he’s just trying to win, he really really connects with Becca and she him.

I’m enjoying watching this less than perfect guy, fall head over heels for Becca and her do the same for him. I think Becca has her own flaws that weren’t highlighted and he clearly has his, but together there’s something redemptive and right. All JMO.


Last edited by SeekAny on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Amethyst Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:12 pm

North, if Garrett had kept it vague (i.e. there were incompatibilities that came to light immediately following the marriage, there were signs beforehand to which he didn't give enough attention,) then I would be in agreement with you. But when he publicly threw his ex under the bus, all bets were off as far as I was concerned. She didn't deserve that and if she wishes to tell her side of things (on her own, or covertly through friends or family members,) I would support that.
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Post by North Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:05 pm

Amethyst wrote:North, if Garrett had kept it vague (i.e. there were incompatibilities that came to light immediately following the marriage, there were signs beforehand to which he didn't give enough attention,) then I would be in agreement with you. But when he publicly threw his ex under the bus, all bets were off as far as I was concerned. She didn't deserve that and if she wishes to tell her side of things (on her own, or covertly through friends or family members,) I would support that.

@Amethyst -- I'm not defending Garrett by ANY stretch of the imagination but that quote and Life&Style article came out before this "relationship discussion" episode aired. So technically, the other camp hit first publically.

My argument isn't that the lead and contestant shouldn't talk about previous relationships...my stance is that discussing past relationships doesn't make good tv (for me) and TPTB shouldn't show it. I care less about why Garrett or Wills' (my fav!) previous relationships didn't work out than how their current relationships with Becca could work. So the nuances of their personalities, family upbringing, faith, social concerns, politics, professional aspirations, etc... Those are the things I want to hear about because they demand conversation and dialogue between two people. These break-up stories are always one-sided.

I think TPTB go for the lowest hanging fruit and underestimate their viewers' intelligence. The show can still be fun and silly and a bit campy but it could evolve and be more representative of today's dating climate.

Wouldn't it have been interesting to know of Ben's political aspirations during his season? Or, that Andi had no intention of returning to law. Or, Nick really wanted to be an actor?

All IMO.

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Post by Maddy Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:07 pm

Want to post here what Sharleen wrote about the show:
Sharleen wrote:Sharleen Joynt on Episode 4 of The Bachelorette

What Jean Blanc did to Becca last night was not only excruciating to watch, it was a downright chitty  thing to do to her of all people. A woman whose Bachelorette crowning and entire television storyline has revolved around being deceived by the man she loved? And you tell her you’re “falling in love” with her just because it’s what you think she wants to hear?? And then, instead of exiting quietly, you ADMIT that to her, fuelling her insecurity about the other guys’ sincerity??? Dude. That is some terrible judgment and major short-sightedness.

What’s incredible is that every step of the way, Jean thought he was being savvy, like he could play his appearance on this show like a game of chess. At the start of the episode, he received a Rose Ceremony rose and, while happy to have it, he bemoaned it being the last rose of the night. Now, not only does that solidify my long-held stance that there is rhyme and reason to that rose order, it also was the beginning of him analyzing and breaking apart his ranking in what I’m pretty sure he saw as a race. He referred to Becca as “his woman” (to John, who was thankfully above making a stink out of that) after having spent maybe a total of half an hour (maybe 40 minutes, if I’m generous) collectively with her. In an ITM he declared, “You’re only as good as your last rose,” yet failed to mention at any point what it is about Becca that had him interested in her, much less “falling in love” with her.

As terrible as what he did was, I found myself fascinated by this series of unfortunate decisions on his part. It occurred to me that it is remarkable that we’ve never seen a misstep like this before. Let’s be honest (or as honest as Jean Blanc was dishonest): It is sadly impossible that there aren’t a few, if not several Jean Blancs in any given Bachelor/ette cast. The odds of every contestant who’s ever claimed to be “falling” (or “on track” to falling, or having full-blown “fallen in love”—I’ve documented my beef with these arbitrary terms) having been 100% sincere is slim. I’m thinking maybe three-quarters of them, at best. And I’m accounting for the Bachelor bubble, in which contestants often naturally develop a starry-eyed infatuation with their lead.

An inherent problem with this show is that you can’t put a girl—no matter how hot and dynamic and compelling—in a room with 25 men and expect all 25 of them to want to spend the rest of their lives with her. There are so many factors at play: compatibility, timing, the guys’ genuine readiness to settle down, just to name a view. And that’s only inherent problem number one!

Number two is something I’ve been harping about for years, dating way back to when I first started recapping. It involved watching Nick on Andi’s season and observing how he, a man who genuinely felt he was in the right and hadn’t done anything wrong, was at the mercy of his communal girlfriend. She said to him, “All I can do is go on your word. When you say you’re gonna do better, I guess I gotta wait for you to do better.” Think about it: that sentence wouldn’t sound out of place in a pre-breakup ultimatum conversation where the guy had a terrible vice or history of bad behaviour. But this wasn’t a couple trying to reconcile when the man wouldn’t quit drinking or cheating; it was merely a new couple’s disagreement, a matter of subjectivity, between two “equal” partners. It wasn’t until Nick finally gave in, telling Andi she was right and he was wrong, that they were able to move forward in their relationship. This little exchange really sums up the issue, which is that Nick (and every contestant for that matter) is doing all the proving, all the conceding, all the submitting, all the time. The structure of this show, with one person holding all the power and everyone else being at her (or his) mercy, leaves such a power imbalance that it’s impossible for the contestants to be either completely themselves or completely autonomous.

Finally, inherent problem number three is the very factor that allows this show to continue to cast relatively desirable and high-calibre (I know this is debatable but you get my drift) candidates. With this show’s consistent and (somehow) ever-expanding relevance and notoriety, appearing on this show now comes with real-life perks—far beyond 15 minutes of fame—that even a couple of years ago none of us could have imagined. It only makes sense that most, if not all of those high-calibre candidates are there for those perks first, and AT BEST, “finding love” a distant second. In other words, the factors that give the casting department the pick of the contestant litter are the very factors that not only enable, but encourage #wrongreasons motives.

I’m not saying anything can be done about any of these issues. These are and forever will be ingrained in this show. But as awful as what Jean did was, it shone a light directly on them, and for the critical viewer watching a social experiment, it was good food for thought.
http://www.flare.com/bachelor/the-bachelorette-season-14-episode-4-recap/
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Post by ironcat Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:22 pm

Am I the only one who suspects that watching this season is going to be reminiscent of Jillian's, where she was obviously gonzo for Ed from the get go, even though there were so many red flags out there (dirt viewers knew or suspected but that Jillian didn't during filming), all the while the viewers were falling in love with her second choice (Reid = Blake) and rooting for her to choose him? We all know how things ultimately worked out for "Jed", so it remains to be seen whether Becca and Garrett can overcome whatever differences they may have and/or whether Garrett is sincere or hiding something.

I'd be really concerned about someone whose marriage fell apart after two months unless they got married impulsively when they were very young (or very drunk), which we know was not the case here, so I hope Becca truly got the whole story from Garrett about this and not some whitewashed version, as any future spouse of his should expect/demand.

Trying to not let my own personal biases play too much into this, but I agree that it's hard to reconcile people who enjoy and support memes/views that border on bullying with being victims of emotional abuse themselves. It may be true however. Of course it's also a well known psychological strategy to blame your adversary for the exact behavior you yourself are guilty of. Just sayin'.

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Post by sosleepy Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:44 pm

All I know is that my heart is so heavy with events happening right here in America, that I’m having trouble even escaping with my silly distraction in The Bachelorette. It just seems so trivial to me, to even care about this nonsence of who Becca ends up with and why. Like talk about priviledge, that I have the ability to sit her and ponder Garrett and Becca right now, like it’s some actual dilemma or problem. 

But my larger point, because my heart is so heavy with recent events, I have an even harder time getting past the likes. Maybe he’s a decent guy. Maybe he’ll be good to Becca. Maybe down the road he’ll become more enlightened. That’s all wonderful, but for now, for me, it doesn’t matter. What he’s shown me, is that he is a man who would likely support an agenda I find repulsive. I’m just not here for that. I do think they are cute together, and if I didn’t know what we know about him, I might be sitting here shipping them too. Buuuut... no thanks. Can’t do it this time.

JMO.
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Post by Aunties_Love Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:21 pm

Kels0012 wrote:Why is this board so dead this season?

IMO, it's because people aren't into Becca as much as the producers hoped in their pre-season hyjinx with how they edited the breakup in the supposed "unedited" breakup scene, how the producers followed her back home, etc....IMO. The producers set her up for a fake season and IMO that's how it's gone so far when you look at the guys on the scene and the crap behind the scenes that has come to light.

northernviewer wrote:OR ....1 of them wanted out real bad and agreed to half just to get the h3!! out ... real quick ....

OR ... they lived together before getting married and purchased a house together etc.  
IMO, it depends on the state or province that they are in as to the legalities of it all....some states/provinces go along the lines that if a couple has been "shacking up" for lack of better words for a certain period of time - married or not, then, IMO it wouldnt' matter if there is a piece of paper. The possessions of a couple combined would then be split in half.

Not that I am giving Garrett a pass here but IMO, depending on what was going on pre-wedding compared to afterwards, then IMO, maybe the sooner they quit, the better for all involved. Just my 2cents on the matter.....all IMO


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Post by pavalygurl Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:48 pm

I'm still liking Becca and still don't think G is cute.

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Post by Alanna Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:55 pm

I don’t know if I can compare this to Jed because imo Ed was never into Jill and just enjoyed being part of the show and playing a bunch of chicks, on and offscreen. G is genuinely into Becca though imo and his red flags wouldn’t have the same impact on a relationship as cheating and carousing imo. For all we know, B is happily on board with G’s views already since it’s a free country and all.

As for the marriage, what a weird story all around. Some friends of the ex’s are claiming he married because we wanted a fancy wedding/her money? Very strange. What manly man cares about the fancy flowers and lace or whatever? Who knows.

Anyway, boring season and boring lead imo. Nice to see some friends though Smiley Hiya @ironcat kisses


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Post by Aunties_Love Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:14 pm

IMO the only way that JED and this scenario fits is that there is a bunch of stuff about Ed that came out that Jill had no idea about. Including all the cheating and backstabbing he was doing of her and others. With this season, we are finding a bunch of crap out about Garrett and I find it hard to believe that Becca knew all about ALL of it before choosing him. Just hope that not much more comes out or IMO Becca isn't going to look good coming out of this season....already the thoughts are swaying on SM and I don't know about viewership and the ratings, but judging by SM that I see, people are fed up with the season and not into Becca as much as they may of been earlier on.

All IMO


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