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Tweets/Facebook Sightings

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by ironcat on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:25 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

I agree, I believe Ashley did have feelings for Ben and they were stronger than what she had for all the other guys except JP. I believe she felt stronger for Ben than she did for Bentley. Bentley was just a smokescreen, pure and simple. There is no way Ashley would be making out on the sofa with JP as we saw in that clip (shown in the montage at the FRC) the same day Bentley left if she was so in love with Bentley. That is why they did not show us that clip, the audience would not have believed that Ashley was pinning away for Bentley for the next three epsiodes.. But, back to Ben, maybe he was like Ames, just concentrating on his relationship with Ashley, Ames did not see a connection with anyone else, at least that is what he said in his interview. I don't believe that, based on what he said at the group date he had with JP and Lucas, he saw the connection, maybe he just convinced himself it was not real. : no no


Absolutely Ashley had feelings for Ben that were stronger than those she had for all the other guys besides JP, but the gap was pretty wide between her feelings for JP and the next closest guy (Ben). Since the HK date, which Jash now have stated was the turning point in their relationship, happened before she really got to spend all that much time with Ben (she really only started noticing him in Phuket, and had just the one solo date and another group date before "the date" with JP), I think by the time of Ben's "overnight" date, everybody else was really just competing for second place, which Ben certainly won. But as JP has said repeatedly, his relationship with Ashley was just at a whole 'nother level. Ben was clearly her favorite from the second tier, and that's why he was F2.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by sydney1 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:10 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

I agree, I believe Ashley did have feelings for Ben and they were stronger than what she had for all the other guys except JP. I believe she felt stronger for Ben than she did for Bentley. Bentley was just a smokescreen, pure and simple. There is no way Ashley would be making out on the sofa with JP as we saw in that clip (shown in the montage at the FRC) the same day Bentley left if she was so in love with Bentley. That is why they did not show us that clip, the audience would not have believed that Ashley was pinning away for Bentley for the next three epsiodes.. But, back to Ben, maybe he was like Ames, just concentrating on his relationship with Ashley, Ames did not see a connection with anyone else, at least that is what he said in his interview. I don't believe that, based on what he said at the group date he had with JP and Lucas, he saw the connection, maybe he just convinced himself it was not real. : no no


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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by GrahamGal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:58 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Ben had to feel confident because he was lead to believe something that turned out not to be true. We might never know what it was that he was told either because he is under a strict contract.

Cute pic of Ben in your avatar. Is he at a Giants game or something?

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by GrahamGal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:55 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I have never blamed Ben for falling for Ashley. It's obvious he did or he would never have proposed. What we are discussion is how he was so dismissive about JP.

Does in matter? No. However, we are on a message board where we discuss the edit and such. So that is just what we are doing.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by Love_Me on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:51 pm

Ben had to feel confident because he was lead to believe something that turned out not to be true. We might never know what it was that he was told either because he is under a strict contract.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by mnmhughes on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:50 pm

I think the F2's are obviously the most screwed-over of all the contestants. Before someone goes on to this show, they should contact any of the F2's and ask for their advice!

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by ironcat on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:46 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't see this as anyone "blaming" Ben, rather trying to figure out why Ben was so overconfident that he was Ashley's pick, much moreso than most F2s or even F1s typically are, when we also know that Ashley, to the contrary, had actually decided on JP from pretty early on. There's clearly a big disconnect there, and in light of nothing much else to sleuth about, I guess some of us are curious what exactly happened in this case. If it doesn't matter to you, that's your prerogative.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by GrahamGal on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:41 pm

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

I'll admit I'm confused as to how he couldn't have known at least a little bit about the connection JP and Ashley shared. There were more than a few moments where he should've caught on. You mentioned one of them. Another one was Ashley telling JP first about Bentley's return. Also JP getting the rose on the group date when he thought he wouldn't. I do wonder why he thought Lucas would get it, though? no idea

I really think much of it is a matter of TPTB telling him he's the F1 or at least implying it and he just didn't bother to question anything he saw or heard because of it.

I agree. Ben dismissing what should have been some obvious signs that Ash and JP were really tight, IMO could only be attributed to being pretty much told to dismiss them by the producers. Nothing else makes sense to me.

I am also curious what the reasoning was behind Ben thinking that JP was the "easy" choice, when from my perspective, he himself was the easy choice, and if it also had something to do with what the producers were telling him in order to convince him to dismiss JP as real competition.

Yes blu telling about Bentley should have been another clue along with him getting the wedding date rose.

IC, he must have been told to dismiss by producers. As you said nothing else makes sense. Even if he was in the "bachelor bubble". As for the easy choice I think he is just talking about location. again he seems to be dismissing that he may have had something more even after he was shot down. He think she just picked him as he is on the east coast.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by bluwavz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:38 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.

I don't blame Ben at all for falling in love with Ashley, but I also don't think she completely lied to him. I do believe Ashley had feelings for Ben, though I know many probably disagree with me. I know it wasn't anywhere near as strong as she felt for JP, but I do think something was there. I'd have a hard time believing she felt no stronger for Ben than she did for the other 23 guys.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by albean99 on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:27 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I wonder also if maybe JP didn't share anything about his dates with the other guys? That might also influence what they thought about JP &Ash's connection.
Maybe, but quite a few of the guys (William, Ryan, West, to name a few) said in their post-exit interviews that it was obvious to them that JP and Ashley were totally in to each other, and even when everyone was in the same room, they would gravitate to each other. Not sure how they all saw it and Ben missed it, without either willful blindness or producer interference. My guess is the latter.

Ben was only on one group date with JP and he got the rose on that date, so out of all the guys he'd be the least likely to see the connection JP and Ashley shared. Of course, TPTB probably had a lot to do with it, too.

I know that Ben was only on one group date with JP, but I find it hard to believe he was clueless of her attraction to JP. Ben is a smart guy. I mean JP was in the F2 with him. Listen, guys are no different. They sit around and talk about who is making a connection and who isn't. William and West were also only on the Orphanage date with JP, and Ryan was on the Orphanage and Boxing dates. So William and West saw enough at the Orphanage date and/or chatter around the house to see the strong connection. Even though Ben got the rose, everyone saw JP carrying her back from the beach in the rain. I like Ben, but if he didn't see anything with JP then he is very naive.

Those guys have the benefit of watching the show so now are looking back after seeing what we were shown on tv. The editing this season after the Bentley junk showed JP as the one she had the most chemistry with and I think that can skew your impressions. PI's during the show and some of the interviews afterward had guys saying they saw the connection with both Ben & JP. I find it odd that there's so many who seem to want to blame Ben for falling in love with Ashley because he should have known that she was lying to him. Something strange about that imo. Isn't the idea to come on the show to find love? He obviously had a lot more interactions with Ashley than we ever saw so how can we say she wasn't leading him to believe she felt the same way. We saw some of them ourselves so I can understand why he was confused. He barely saw her with JP. I do believe the producers led him on but think the one he trusted most was Ashley.

At this point does it really matter? It's pretty clear that Ben was hurt but has moved on. Ditto with Ashley on the moved on part. Hopefully she learned something about herself and Ben has said he has.


"Love is the Only Reality" -Ed Lambton

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by mnmhughes on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:09 pm

Also, Ben got the first rose during both the F4 and F3 RC. yes
That must have added to his feeling of confidence.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

Post by bluwavz on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:02 pm

[quote="ironcat"][quote="bluwavz"]
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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I'll admit I'm confused as to how he couldn't have known at least a little bit about the connection JP and Ashley shared. There were more than a few moments where he should've caught on. You mentioned one of them. Another one was Ashley telling JP first about Bentley's return. Also JP getting the rose on the group date when he thought he wouldn't. I do wonder why he thought Lucas would get it, though? no idea

I really think much of it is a matter of TPTB telling him he's the F1 or at least implying it and he just didn't bother to question anything he saw or heard because of it.

I agree. Ben dismissing what should have been some obvious signs that Ash and JP were really tight, IMO could only be attributed to being pretty much told to dismiss them by the producers. Nothing else makes sense to me.

I am also curious what the reasoning was behind Ben thinking that JP was the "easy" choice, when from my perspective, he himself was the easy choice, and if it also had something to do with what the producers were telling him in order to convince him to dismiss JP as real competition.

You just reminded me of something I meant to bring up earlier. At the rose ceremony in episode 9 when Ashley was giving JP the rose, Ben had this look on his face. It seemed dismissive to me, though I'm curious what anyone else thought of it.

I always thought that Ashley was almost afraid to make eye contact with JP at that RC for fear of blushing, after what must have happened between them the night before (the sex!!). So she was mostly looking at Ben and maybe Ben interpreted this as she was more interested in him than in JP?

It was when she was pinning the rose on JP and then it cut to Ben's reaction. It's at around 8:53:



ETA: Wow, I hadn't noticed the first time that she didn't look at JP at all before the toast. No wonder Ben got confused.

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Re: Tweets/Facebook Sightings

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