Episode 11 - 8/1 Finale - Discussion - Spoilers

Gina wrote:

GrahamGal wrote:

albean99 wrote:I don't know if he was her original f1 but do think she only had eyes for him early on. I think it's rewriting history to ignore that. She obviously started to have real feelings for JP after Bentley left so that should be all that matters if you're a fan.

Personally if she only had eyes for BNB in the beginning I would think he would have been on a 1-on-1 or at the least the coin flip. JP was part of the coin flip (which to be changed the course of this whole season) and JP got a 1-on-1 the next day. I agree BNB was in her top 4, but I don't believe she only had eyes for him.

She didn't ~ mostly all producer driven. Her crying was real because it was at the beginning of the show and all her insecurities were raw and she was afraid none of the guys were happy she was the bachelorette, that's what produced the majority of tears/meltdown, more than she felt about BNB, esp. after she got with JP and saw he was there for her from the get go. Anything after the coin toss and most importantly, after the "Jammie Date", was all scripted producer induced 'drama' about BND, a huge smokescreen to hide JP and Ashley. Ben, nor any other guys were ever really a factor, but the 'show' must go on.

The coin toss and JP losing was the best thing that could happened. I am sappy, but it was fate! He wins that and no Jammie Date. Everything happens for a reason and this was just puuurfacttt.

AFRC
Ben: When did you know?
Ash: I gave our relationship every chance

FRC
Ash to JP - I love you, I've wanted to tell you for so long

which one was it? I really hate when they do this.

anders wrote:AFRC
Ben: When did you know?
Ash: I gave our relationship every chance

FRC
Ash to JP - I love you, I've wanted to tell you for so long

which one was it? I really hate when they do this.

Welcome back!

Would you rather have her tell Ben to his face that he was never the one, it was always JP? I think she told the truth -- she knew that she loved JP for a long time, but she still gave her relationship with Ben every chance.

In real life (not TV reality world), have many of us have met a nice guy, nice looking, fun and dated him and nothing was there much the first 2 dates. But we blame ourselves (thinking this should work), and go out some more more with the guy. Then the passion and spark, communication, chemistry is simply not there. No one's fault.

Love is the most complex emotion we have, always has been and always will be. So we tell the nice guy, sorry, '"I tried, but it's just didn't work out". And that guy doesn't understand cause he had the feelings. Same thing with Ashley and Ben. And her feelings for JP only solidified that she knew he was the one.

ironcat wrote:Alanna, you said almost everything I was going to say!!! Just want to add that of all the guys, only Bentley and JP "got" Ashley, in that they were the only ones who pursued her, rather than taking a "wait and see, and in the meantime I'll bond with my bros in the house" attitude. (Well, Ryan tried as well, but as smooth as Bentley and JP are in "wooing" a woman, that's how awkward poor Ryan is; I guess that's why he needed to read some books first, although they didn't help!). Bentley and JP also offered her the physical affection that she needs and wants when she likes a guy, the others were too reserved or standoffish.

The only reason that Bentley may have had a slight edge on JP during the first week of filming was because while he had been on two group dates with her (with individual time on both of them), during that same period, JP had been stuck in the house, and had gotten very little time with her, due to an unlucky coin toss. Even had Bentley stayed longer, once JP got his solo date, he would have easily taken the lead from Bentley. One was the real thing, one was faking it; I think seeing the two efforts side by side, it would have been easy for Ashley to tell the difference.

eta Of course she was never "in love" with Bentley after a week, but she was infatuated with "who she thought he was". And I believe she was devastated after he told her he was leaving, partly due to him, and partly due to the roast the day before, when William, who she thought liked her, disappointed her, Ryan who she thought she liked, turned her off with his kissing, and she probably started wondering how badly off her picker was, and thinking that maybe deciding to be the Bachelorette was a big mistake.

Ironcat, I agree with so much of what you and Alanna say here, but.......I do think that she was infatuated with Bentley at first. I think "fell for" is a little too strong. TPTB blew it all out of proportion, but we all know that Ashley is not an actress, nor is she good at reading people. JP was definitely on her radar from the M&G. I think she found it easy to flirt with him and talk to him, but she definitely had a problem throughout the whole season in playing the field with a lot of guys at the same time. Bentley probably was cast as the villain, but they certainly threw him under the bus, didn't they? I believe Bentley leaving wasn't the only contributor to her total meltdown. It was that it came on the heels of the roast date and hearing a guy that she thought cared about her say all of those hurtful things about her. It was no coincidence that JP had those two 1:1 dates after Bentley incidents. JP gave her just what she needed, someone that was a good listener that she could confide in, someone that was understanding and let her just be herself, but at the same time made her feel desirable. She did feel the need for closure with Bentley, although I don't think she expected to see him, but rather just wanted to talk to him. After all, his reason for leaving in the first place was that he missed his daughter, so why would anyone expect him to fly half way around the world to have a short conversation with him. The first question I would have asked him is about that. If you left me and whatever we could have had together because you missed your daughter, then aren't you missing her now? Why would you leave her again? If that was all for the show, she wouldn't have felt the need for the big confessional with JP and later with the remaining guys. By the time that conversation took place, she was pretty much over the thought him and had moved on. Once she knew that she no longer felt anything for Bentley, she was able to move on fully with JP. You could see a difference in her demeanor once she told him about Bentley and he was accepting. Although, they did have a much longer discussion about Bentley that we didn't see. After the discussion with JP about Bentley, then it was like the old horse heading for the barn. All she saw was the finale, a ring and a twirl with JP. I do think that Ryan was to be F2, setting him up for TB, but she couldn't deal with his pushing the physical side of the relationship. Constantine was a totally asexual relationship, Ames didn't push anything and Ben was a "friend" to her and never moved into the passion zone. I did think it was interesting in the conversation that she had with Ben on the Orphanage date, when he was asking her why she was showing sudden interest in him and she replied "because I like you now.....just kidding". Don't know what that was all about.

anders wrote:AFRC
Ben: When did you know?
Ash: I gave our relationship every chance

FRC
Ash to JP - I love you, I've wanted to tell you for so long

which one was it? I really hate when they do this.

Welcome back anders. Hope you had a nice vacation.

anders wrote:AFRC
Ben: When did you know?
Ash: I gave our relationship every chance

FRC
Ash to JP - I love you, I've wanted to tell you for so long

which one was it? I really hate when they do this.

No different from Brad to Chantal "thought you deserved to be there" and "wanted you to hang around"! It sucks but it happens!

anders wrote:AFRC
Ben: When did you know?
Ash: I gave our relationship every chance

FRC
Ash to JP - I love you, I've wanted to tell you for so long

which one was it? I really hate when they do this.

She basically gave Ben a half answer, in order to spare his feelings, I'm sure. Her full answer would have been that she knew probably since HK, but after that, she still tried to give their relationship every chance, partly because those are the rules of the show, and partly because she wanted to see whether she could find with Ben even a smidgeon of the passion, or "it" she felt with JP, knowing that "on paper", Ben was probably more the type she expected to pick. But, try as she might, there was no passion with Ben. That of course, would have been too mean an answer to give him, plus it reveals too much about the manipulations of the show.

bluwavz wrote:

kashoo wrote:I noticed this right away when watching the finale, but didn't bother to get the SC's to confirm until now.


Ashley talking about Ben and JP in the finale:



Ashley saying f-you to Bentley (shown in Hong Kong episode):


It was speculated at the time of the Hong Kong episode that this was probably filmed much later, but its funny that the editors didn't even try to hide it. Sometimes the editors on this show are flat out LAZY haha.

Good catch. I always knew her "FU Bentley" PI wasn't filmed in the Hong Kong episode. More like after the whole season was filmed and a couple episodes had already aired. :laughingoutlou

If I would have been in her shoes I would have told the producers: you screwed up, you made me show me as a fool... you do this or I am done with it! This explains also her comment that she was upset for a while and then got over it (kimmel) because she could save her face

the fu*** you and the "to the core" were way to extreme after what we can say a boring honk kong confrontation.

Shelby wrote:

bluwavz wrote:

kashoo wrote:I noticed this right away when watching the finale, but didn't bother to get the SC's to confirm until now.


Ashley talking about Ben and JP in the finale:



Ashley saying f-you to Bentley (shown in Hong Kong episode):


It was speculated at the time of the Hong Kong episode that this was probably filmed much later, but its funny that the editors didn't even try to hide it. Sometimes the editors on this show are flat out LAZY haha.

Good catch. I always knew her "FU Bentley" PI wasn't filmed in the Hong Kong episode. More like after the whole season was filmed and a couple episodes had already aired. :laughingoutlou

If I would have been in her shoes I would have told the producers: you screwed up, you made me show me as a fool... you do this or I am done with it! This explains also her comment that she was upset for a while and then got over it (kimmel) because she could save her face

the fu*** you and the "to the core" were way to extreme after what we can say a boring honk kong confrontation.

Yeah, that's why I always thought it was made long after filming. It was a boring conversation and Bentley didn't say really much of anything.

I don't think Ashley felt anger after her meeting with Bentley, just relief that after seeing him again, she didn't feel the same pull toward him that she had earlier, knew that she was no longer going to wonder "what if", and that she could now move on with the others (ie, JP) without regrets or feeling guilty. The anger at Bentley only came when she realized all the awful things he was saying behind her back. And in order to redeem her somewhat, after a lot of the backlash that was supposed to go to Bentley went to her instead, the producers must have had her make the FU comments once the show started airing and she was legitimately angry, at both him and the producers.

ironcat wrote:I don't think Ashley felt anger after her meeting with Bentley, just relief that after seeing him again, she didn't feel the same pull toward him that she had earlier, knew that she was no longer going to wonder "what if", and that she could now move on with the others (ie, JP) without regrets or feeling guilty. The anger at Bentley only came when she realized all the awful things he was saying behind her back. And in order to redeem her somewhat, after a lot of the backlash that was supposed to go to Bentley went to her instead, the producers must have had her make the FU comments once the show started airing and she was legitimately angry, at both him and the producers.

I agree. She didn't seem angry after meeting Bentley at all to me in that episode. She looked relieved and happy when she was telling the guys about his return and she even told them how good she felt when she left his room.

I just hate that she had to do that to redeem herself because of all the backlash that was mostly the producers fault.